Cuendillar He/him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 5 minutes ago, coco.pudding said: He didn’t though? Unless he’s talking about his last village game, when he did die at the beginning iirc. You're correct, I am talking about my last village game (other than this one), the skyward one.
Ascended Grubberfly He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 29 minutes ago, Illwei said: Can you elaborate on what you consider to be a derp clear on grub? ...grubby? fly? Gru? 19 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said: Let’s stick with Grub Maybe Grubber @Ascended Grubberfly any preference? Grub is preferable. 12 minutes ago, Illwei said: Call me over-analyzing it, and yes they're new, but this is still for one, looking like bait to me, and for two also more self aware than not. If he doesn't know that there are players that can use treasure, why does he know treasure can help? Has he read the rules? Again all of this with a grain of salt. Initial read negative on Grubby, but not going to go anywhere with it without more information and more time. They're new. I read the rules. Officers can use keys to get treasure to immediately get Favor. Upon rereading something, there is a Bonus Action for using a pre written boast, but boasts are an item so @Archer just to clarify you need a Boast to use that Bonus Action? Cause if someone could just use a Boast that wouldn't be very balanced and I may be reading that wrong. 59 minutes ago, Illwei said: So Grub- if you were to abstain as a protest of voting someone out completely, you are saying a couple of things with that action (intended or not): 1) It matters not to you who does die, in a pool of 13. - This is pretty self-explanatory, since in a game like this voting is one of the only ways you have to solidly communicate and take action. Sure there are other actions, but eh. 2) You think other people can make better decisions than you. Someone is going do die regardless. - Regardless of your assumptions or feelings, if you are a Merchant, then in your eyes there is only one confirmed Merchant - Yourself. - You not voting means that the vote is comprised of only those who you do not know the alignment of for certain. - Therefore not voting implies that you are okay with the Ghostbloods being the deciding voice in the Exe. Okay, that makes sense. Just not used to SE rules, and with this format I was wondering if a kill is worth the cost. Another question, If we all abstain does that randomly kill? 19 minutes ago, Illwei said: But my first interpretation of all of their posts is pretty much expected from a new Elim. I'm of course not set in it, but asking how they did reminds me more of them saying something in the Doc and then their teammates going "no, say that in thread" or whatnot. Clearly I just sound inexperienced. That's embarrassing since I have a little experience with Mafia esque games. Either way, we should probably do something about the Favor thing. And on a small lead, Hoid Slayer, why did you support my abstain idea when its seen as not ideal?
Mystic He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 3 minutes ago, Ascended Grubberfly said: Clearly I just sound inexperienced. That's embarrassing since I have a little experience with Mafia esque games. Either way, we should probably do something about the Favor thing. Made me think of a in person game I played recently. I was Lurcher, and after the first round I went three for three with protects(we also got all three Elims out by C4) but I will never get as lucky as I did that game with that
Mint11 she/her Posted July 3 Posted July 3 4 hours ago, Ascended Grubberfly said: But if we exe a villager, that loses us voting power and puts Ghostbloods closer to a win. I do acknowledge the point, and if we can find a reasonable target I’ll vote, but will probably abstain otherwise. we definitely need to kill someone. if we only ex someone when we're confident they're a ghostblood, that means we don't get much information this cycle. if we don't get much information, we won't be able to work out who's a ghostblood. it'll just be a never ending cycle. the lynch gives us too much information for us to give it up 3 hours ago, The Unknown Character said: Everyone saying not to coordinate is crazy to me. Sure, we probably don't this turn (if you're a Officer, you should probably go for a key and use the Treasure option), but why we would leave our lose condition up to fate? calculation for enmity is 1 + # exed Merchants - # exed Ghostbloods, so we can reasonably assume that the enmity for this cycle will be 1+1-0 = 2 we need at least two favor to counteract that, so yeah, I'd agree with using treasure if you can. as for coordination, there's a risk of elims strategizing the kill or the use of a painrial to get people to lose items, if they know who has what or who can do what. coordination via PMs can probably give us some fun mind games chaos though 48 minutes ago, Mystic said: @coco.pudding I’d better be able to trust you this time. Okay? famous last words... @Stardust noticed you haven't chimed in yet. what are your thoughts on action coordination for the village? also hi @Illwei I think I've seen you around before? but I don't think we've played together? it's been a long time though, so I may have forgotten. but I'm not a new player, just a returning one
Cuendillar He/him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 3 minutes ago, Ascended Grubberfly said: Clearly I just sound inexperienced. That's embarrassing since I have a little experience with Mafia esque games. I know the feeling. SE is cutthroat. I've seen elims intentionally skip kills to implicate inactive players. So, I've reread the rules and I have some thoughts. I think exes are worth it, as although the penalty for getting it wrong is higher, our win con is unchanged from traditional. The interesting thing is though, I'm not certain if nks are worth it for the elims. While it does increase their voting power, they don't win by killing merchants. While an exe will probably still happen most cycles, I wouldn't be surprised if it fell to the wayside in favor of other actions at some point. @Archer, what if the third rebuke is given and the final Ghostblood is exed in the same cycle? Tie? We have a lot of possibilities for analysis with the favor/item mechanics, so I do think we should be rather open with the actions we are going to take, especially requesting items. I personally am probably going to request a boast from the hold.
Archer he/him Posted July 3 Author Posted July 3 Vote Count (Please correct me if I'm wrong) Qian (1): Hoid Illwei (1): Wahr TJ (1): Hopper Hoid (1): Grub TUC (1): Illwei 17 minutes ago, Ascended Grubberfly said: I read the rules. Officers can use keys to get treasure to immediately get Favor. Upon rereading something, there is a Bonus Action for using a pre written boast, but boasts are an item so @Archer just to clarify you need a Boast to use that Bonus Action? Cause if someone could just use a Boast that wouldn't be very balanced and I may be reading that wrong. Pre-written Boasts can be activated as a Bonus Action if your Action is anything other than using an Item. That's the only Item that uses a Bonus Action slot. Quote @Archer, what if the third rebuke is given and the final Ghostblood is exed in the same cycle? Tie? In that scenario, the Ghostbloods and Merchants both win.
Ascended Grubberfly He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 4 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: We have a lot of possibilities for analysis with the favor/item mechanics, so I do think we should be rather open with the actions we are going to take, especially requesting items. I personally am probably going to request a boast from the hold. I think the request is an action that is done through the GM PM. And hiding our requests can make it harder for elims to get the Shardblade, which is has enmity implications. 7 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: The interesting thing is though, I'm not certain if nks are worth it for the elims But it raises enmity, making it easier to cause a Rebuke. 3 minutes ago, Archer said: Pre-written Boasts can be activated as a Bonus Action if your Action is anything other than using an Item. That's the only Item that uses a Bonus Action slot. Thanks!
Illwei Posted July 3 Posted July 3 @Hoid Slayer Just as I am a new player to you, you are a new player to me. Seems the only actually new player is grub tho. @Ascended Grubberfly You haven't played BOTC before, have you? Anyways the tonal change is noted. Also according to the rules, the rebuke isn't affected by the factional, only by the exe. It's still in the Elim's favor always to use their kill though. Their direct wincon is not eliminating the Merchants, but that doesn't mean that Eliminating the Merchants is not part of their wincon, if you catch my drift. Less people to vote them out, less people to talk bad about them, less people to use Favorable Items or Abilities to keep the rebuke from happening. Sure if they don't kill anyone they could still win, but that doesn't mean it's not easier to win with more people dead. Especially if those who remain are more on the inactive side. Speaking of inactives where's @|TJ| @Mint11 I actually went to look through your history when I signed up because I thought you sounded familiar to me haha. I think you stopped playing around when I started, since I was most active 2020/2021. My first game was LG69, which seemed to be one of your last around there.
Hoid Slayer He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 46 minutes ago, Ascended Grubberfly said: And on a small lead, Hoid Slayer, why did you support my abstain idea when its seen as not ideal? Uhh cause like you I didn’t realize it wasn’t ideal I wasn’t aware of the rule Illwei referenced either Tie rules vary from game to game 40 minutes ago, Mint11 said: we definitely need to kill someone. if we only ex someone when we're confident they're a ghostblood, that means we don't get much information this cycle. if we don't get much information, we won't be able to work out who's a ghostblood. it'll just be a never ending cycle. the lynch gives us too much information for us to give it up I believe voting on someone you even slightly think is evil is always preferable to leaving it up to chance 41 minutes ago, Mint11 said: also hi @Illwei I think I've seen you around before? but I don't think we've played together? it's been a long time though, so I may have forgotten. but I'm not a new player, just a returning one I have the same position on Illwei 17 minutes ago, Ascended Grubberfly said: I think the request is an action that is done through the GM PM. And hiding our requests can make it harder for elims to get the Shardblade, which is has enmity implications. Everything is done through GM PMs 30 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: I've seen elims intentionally skip kills to implicate inactive players. Referencing something with “I’ve seen” when it happened like a week ago is crazy 31 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: The interesting thing is though, I'm not certain if nks are worth it for the elims. While it does increase their voting power, they don't win by killing merchants. While an exe will probably still happen most cycles, I wouldn't be surprised if it fell to the wayside in favor of other actions at some point. Actually a really good point I hadn’t thought of No NKs also allow the elims to hide more easily 3 minutes ago, Illwei said: Just as I am a new player to you, you are a new player to me. The only thing I think of when I think of you is the Tar Valon game I read the final cycle of as I was waiting for my first game to start You were evil there, I believe 4 minutes ago, Illwei said: I actually went to look through your history when I signed up because I thought you sounded familiar to me haha. I think you stopped playing around when I started, since I was most active 2020/2021. My first game was LG69, which seemed to be one of your last around there. Wait @Mint11 how veteran are you? 1
Illwei Posted July 3 Posted July 3 I was wrong, LG67 was my first. Idk why I forgot about it. @Hoid Slayer LG50? I was Village in that. Strange that you think you remember me for some reason tho! I haven't been around at all in a few years I believe. And while the tie rule makes the argument for exeing C1 obsolete, there are also many other reasons that we do. -- Anyways again, I don't think we should claim what we are trying to grab. I don't think it's explicitly harmful, but I also think we should grab items which give favor. Elims may try to grab those items as well so that they keep them away from the Merchants. 1
Ascended Grubberfly He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 9 minutes ago, Illwei said: You haven't played BOTC before, have you? No idea what that is. 10 minutes ago, Illwei said: Anyways the tonal change is noted. Mine or the game in general? 10 minutes ago, Illwei said: Also according to the rules, the rebuke isn't affected by the factional, only by the exe. Wait. Can you explain that more, I'm a little confused by the terminology.
Illwei Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Quote Enmity = 1 + # exed Merchants - # exed Ghostbloods There are two "daily" kills in this game The Execution is the kill that we get to vote on- the "village's" Kill. The NK, Factional, Ghostblood's kill - This is the kill the Ghostbloods/Elims have every cycle. The Factional doesn't affect Emnity, only the Exe does. Them killing off more merchants, though favorable to them, does not affect the level of Emnity.
Mint11 she/her Posted July 3 Posted July 3 16 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said: Wait @Mint11 how veteran are you? uhh I'm not sure how many games I played in the olden days, but there's a master spreadsheet somewhere that tracks everyone's SE history. if "veteran" implies "skilled" though, that's kinda a sus designation
Mystic He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Illwei said: There are two "daily" kills in this game The Execution is the kill that we get to vote on- the "village's" Kill. The NK, Factional, Ghostblood's kill - This is the kill the Ghostbloods/Elims have every cycle. The Factional doesn't affect Emnity, only the Exe does. Them killing off more merchants, though favorable to them, does not affect the level of Emnity. @Archer, can you confirm this? That’s not how I interpreted that and I think that matters quite a bit edit: Illwei’s interpretation means that if a Shardbearer hits a Elim it doesn’t count towards emnity and that seems off to me Edited July 3 by Mystic
Hoid Slayer He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 11 minutes ago, Illwei said: LG50? I was Village in that. Strange that you think you remember me for some reason tho! I haven't been around at all in a few years I believe. Nope, LG 104 And for the record, you were evil 1 minute ago, Mystic said: @Archer, can you confirm this? That’s not how I interpreted that and I think that matters quite a bit I think Illwei’s right The rules for Enmity specify executions
Mystic He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 minute ago, Hoid Slayer said: I think Illwei’s right The rules for Enmity specify executions That incredibly nerfs shardbearers and allows for the play of Elims self NKing in order to make it so we don’t get the benifit of exing them
Illwei Posted July 3 Posted July 3 4 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said: Nope, LG 104 Oh huh, I guess I don't have anything after AG10 logged in my spreadsheet. I don't remember that game.
Hoid Slayer He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 11 minutes ago, Mystic said: That incredibly nerfs shardbearers and allows for the play of Elims self NKing in order to make it so we don’t get the benifit of exing them Huh That is… scary
Illwei Posted July 3 Posted July 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mystic said: And no, I’m not, but I’m never sure C1. In this case I just didn’t see a reason to keep it there. My original plan was to do Hoid, and then once I’d gotten a better handle on the thread switch to someone else. I didn’t really learn much, it’s C1 after all, so I didn’t have anyone to switch to. And I was planning on taking it off anyways, I didn’t see a reason to not do that Just clarifying: You voted him to get a reaction, and then took it off just because? before any reaction? What did you get out of voting for him, and what did you get out of taking the vote off? ED1T: 19 minutes ago, Mystic said: That incredibly nerfs shardbearers and allows for the play of Elims self NKing in order to make it so we don’t get the benifit of exing them I want to say: No it doesn't nerf Shardbearers. They still kill. As I mentioned before, just because the Elims wincon is not to outnumber the Village does not mean it does not play into their wincon to kill the Villagers. Elims NKing anyone plays to their wincon. The more discussion we have the worse the Elims have it- and that's pretty much it. The more people to use items for Favour, the more people to discuss and talk and vote. The worse the ELims have it. Killing people doesn't take away from their wincon, or even stray from it. It is still directly beneficial. Shardblades are also useful even moreso to the village, since the village having any sort of kill power that is not the Exe is beneficial so long as the user kills someone likely to be up for exe. Which is a play I recommend. I also believe Elims will not NK themselves. This would be a silly play. There is likely 3 of them, since there is a thief. maybe 4 but that sure feels pushing it with the Emnity factor. They will not be killing themselves unless it's a game-winning play at that exact moment, which I find very unlikely. A kill NOT in the hands of the village as a whole is a net loss for the village. Even a kill in the hands of a single villager is swingy at best. Edited July 3 by Illwei
Mystic He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 4 minutes ago, Illwei said: Just clarifying: You voted him to get a reaction, and then took it off just because? before any reaction? What did you get out of voting for him, and what did you get out of taking the vote off? Pretty much yeah I was going to take the vote off anyways, and I didn’t see a reason to change that even though I didn’t have an idea of who to change my vote to And yeah, I didn’t really get a reaction from him, but my plan was to change the vote as soon as I had a better idea of what was happening. I wasn’t going to get a reaction either way
Archer he/him Posted July 3 Author Posted July 3 25 minutes ago, Mystic said: @Archer, can you confirm this? That’s not how I interpreted that and I think that matters quite a bit edit: Illwei’s interpretation means that if a Shardbearer hits a Elim it doesn’t count towards emnity and that seems off to me Enmity is calculated based on exes only. The Enmity announced at the start of the round is the amount villagers need to match or exceed to pass that round.
Illwei Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Huh, fura is in your sig, hoid? Anyways Hoid and Mystic are likely unpartnered(as Elims) atm. Mystic's vote on them most likely would not have been removed if they were Elims. Right now I am leaning Hoid as a Villager, which wouldn't guarantee anything else, but I do think Mystic is Leaning on the Elim side. Their reluctance to want to place another vote, plus their removal of Hoid is relevant to my suspicion.
Mystic He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 2 minutes ago, Illwei said: Huh, fura is in your sig, hoid? Anyways Hoid and Mystic are likely unpartnered(as Elims) atm. Mystic's vote on them most likely would not have been removed if they were Elims. Right now I am leaning Hoid as a Villager, which wouldn't guarantee anything else, but I do think Mystic is Leaning on the Elim side. Their reluctance to want to place another vote, plus their removal of Hoid is relevant to my suspicion. I think you’d prefer me thinking that who I’m voting could be Elim over just throwing out a vote
Illwei Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 minute ago, Mystic said: I think you’d prefer me thinking that who I’m voting could be Elim over just throwing out a vote Well you'd think wrong!
Mystic He/Him Posted July 3 Posted July 3 Just now, Illwei said: Well you'd think wrong! That’s a different playstyle than I’m used to, huh Interesting
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