What if... No Kaladin?

[Beholder He/him]

So me and my full cosmere friend had a discussion about, 'What if Kaladin was never in SA?' or something to that effect. And it's pretty interesting. So, no Kaldin. Let's work our way from the end (this is how we talked about it). No Kaldin means Dalinar was never saved at the end of WoK so Sadeas likely took over the war camps and unified the Alethi. Most likely he crowned himself king and then would have gathered the armies and wiped out the Parshendi before Venli discovered stormform and stopped the Desolation from occurring. So, yeah. Odium's plans would have been foiled for untold years. However, as my friend said, no Kaldin also means that Amaram would have died, losing Sadeas one of his best, if not his best, military commander. (Other than himself). My friend said this would offset the power of Sadeas' army. I disagreed however and I'm interested as to what you all think. 

[Frustration]

Sadeas never would have wiped the Parshendi out, he was against Dalinar's expedition. He would have kept doing bridge runs until the Listeners summoned the Everstorm. So now the humans lose their best Radiants, don't get to Urithiru until Jasnah returns, they don't have a Bondsmith with a Connection to the Thrill, so Theylenah falls, assuming they can even get a Windrunner to open the gate.

Szeth is never defeated, and so he continues to kill monarchs which causes a greater amount of social unrest. He also never goes with Nale, so Lift doesn't have anyone to help her in Edgedanncer, which means Nale continues to kill Radiants around the world, which further weakens humans ability to fight back.

There's no one to save Elhokar, so he dies, assuming Sadeas lets him live that long, which likely fractures Alethkar as the various Highprinces fight each other.

There are no visions so no coalition is made.

Basically everything other than Azimir ends up in the control of either Taravangian or Odium. However Taravangian doesn't have any bargaining chips and thus looses the upcoming battle, and Odium wins.

[Namle84]

Not to mention, Chana still breaks on Braize, so the fused are no longer caged whatever happens to the Parshendi

[BinarySecond]

If there is no Kaladin is there also no Tien?

[Beholder He/him]

19 hours ago, Frustration said:

Sadeas never would have wiped the Parshendi out, he was against Dalinar's expedition. He would have kept doing bridge runs until the Listeners summoned the Everstorm. So now the humans lose their best Radiants, don't get to Urithiru until Jasnah returns, they don't have a Bondsmith with a Connection to the Thrill, so Theylenah falls, assuming they can even get a Windrunner to open the gate.

Szeth is never defeated, and so he continues to kill monarchs which causes a greater amount of social unrest. He also never goes with Nale, so Lift doesn't have anyone to help her in Edgedanncer, which means Nale continues to kill Radiants around the world, which further weakens humans ability to fight back.

There's no one to save Elhokar, so he dies, assuming Sadeas lets him live that long, which likely fractures Alethkar as the various Highprinces fight each other.

There are no visions so no coalition is made.

Basically everything other than Azimir ends up in the control of either Taravangian or Odium. However Taravangian doesn't have any bargaining chips and thus looses the upcoming battle, and Odium wins.

I agree with all your points except for the fact that Sadeas explicitly says 

“Yes,” Sadeas said. “But I’m confident I can beat the Parshendi on my own now. Everything we’ve done together, I can manage by splitting my army into two—one to race on ahead, a larger force to follow.

this is from around the end of WoK. Maybe he would have continued getting gemhearts, but maybe no. 

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Beholder said:

I agree with all your points except for the fact that Sadeas explicitly says 

“Yes,” Sadeas said. “But I’m confident I can beat the Parshendi on my own now. Everything we’ve done together, I can manage by splitting my army into two—one to race on ahead, a larger force to follow.

this is from around the end of WoK. Maybe he would have continued getting gemhearts, but maybe no. 

That was in reference to their strategy for getting gemhearts, Sadeas would race to the gemhearts with a small force, Dalinar would follow with a larger, but slower one.

[Jult]

I agree with most of what's been said. But I would think that Stormfather would send the visions to someone else if Dalinar dies. And Syl would probably bond someone. Just not Kaladin. I'm very curious to see who people think Stormfather and Syl's second choices would be.