LG112 - Pseudocycle One: Closed For Minor Restructuring

[Qianweilian He/him]

2 minutes ago, Myst said:

Technically yes but I believe that’s frowned upon. What could also happen is someone missing the link at the bottom of their GM PM and not go in the doc.

*cough* cause that totally didn’t happen to someone in my shardworld *cough*

If I'm going to be honest, this game is weird enough that I doubt something being "frowned upon" will be that much of a barrier. I mean, once we get a better idea of the meta elim bet, throwing the game is a suitable option on the table.

[Myst He/Him]

1 minute ago, Qianweilian said:

If I'm going to be honest, this game is weird enough that I doubt something being "frowned upon" will be that much of a barrier. I mean, once we get a better idea of the meta elim bet, throwing the game is a suitable option on the table.

Idk about you but I got told not to play to get converted, so frowned upon as law still stands 

[Qianweilian He/him]

2 minutes ago, Myst said:

Idk about you but I got told not to play to get converted, so frowned upon as law still stands 

I meant as in throwing the pseudogame as a pseudo villager in the event of a meta elim pseudo village bet.

Playing to get converted is obviously something different.

Edit: this game is stupid complex

Edited May 27 by Qianweilian

[Myst He/Him]

Just now, Qianweilian said:

I meant as in throwing the pseudogame as a pseudo villager in the event of a meta elim pseudo elim bet.

Playing to get converted is obviously something different.

Fair

[StrikerEZ he/him]

46 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

If I'm going to be honest, this game is weird enough that I doubt something being "frowned upon" will be that much of a barrier. I mean, once we get a better idea of the meta elim bet, throwing the game is a suitable option on the table.

Throwing the game, on either team, is absolutely against SE policy and can get you banned. Also, pretending to be someone you are not in one of the docs is also against SE policy and can get you banned. Source: former SE moderator here.

And now I see that you meant throwing the PseudoGame as a PseudoVillager to ensure the MetaElims don't win their bet. That's different as it's part of the rules of the game basically.

Anyway, I will not be claiming an alignment, Shardworld, or either of my roles. I have already said this in my Shardworld doc, but to reiterate: I would also like it if my fellow Shardworld inhabitant(s) did not reveal my location.

EDIT: fixed a word

Edited May 27 by StrikerEZ

[Qianweilian He/him]

31 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Throwing the game, on either team, is absolutely against SE policy and can get you banned.

Oh, for sure. Sorry for the miscommunication.

31 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Also, pretending to be someone you are not in one of the docs is also against SE policy and can get you banned. Source: former SE moderator here.

Wait, really? I wasn't planning to do that, but I was under the impression that that was a legitimate tactic. I guess it doesn't come up often in elim docs.

31 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Anyway, I will not be claiming an alignment, Shardworld, or either of my roles. I have already said this in my Shardworld doc, but to reiterate: I would also like it if my fellow Shardworld inhabitant(s) did not reveal my location.

I would like to think that the more public information, the better.

Edited May 28 by Qianweilian

[coco.pudding she/they]

K sorry y’all been hanging with a friend today and not been able to be on

My thoughts are I feel like a village bet might be easier to win so I’m guessing that’s what they would do. But an elim bet would require less solving and might be more predictable especially if one of them is a psuedo elim since they could probably steer the elims in a certain direction if they so choose. Either way, they’re going to have to walk a very fine line between getting the result they want and not letting us know which result they want, so hopefully they slip up and we can figure it out from there.

I am very interested to see what the outcome of this cycle is, and I think that will tell us quite a bit. So I won’t be solidifying my strategy until we have this cycle’s result and am instead choosing to use it as an opportunity to gather information.

On the topic of sharing information, I do think some things has should be shared, but definitely not everything. The elims are likely in most of the shardworld docs, especially the more populous ones, so I see no reason to keep something like that a secret. Roles I think should stay hidden at least for now, and I’m torn on alignment. On the one hand they probably know since there probably is a double elim, but on the off chance there isn’t, maybe we shouldn’t? I think I’m gonna run some numbers later and figure out the statistical likelihood of there being a double elim and then decide from there. Someone please remind me to do that in like 5 hours. 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

13 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

I would like to think that the more public information, the better.

The problem there is that in this game (and every game, really), information is everything. The elims inherently have an advantage because they have more information than the village. Both on a meta level and on a pseudo level (assuming at least one MetaElim is a PseudoElim). Part of what makes the elims in any game more powerful is their better knowledge of the game state compared to the village. Yes, the village having more info can be useful, but it also makes the elims more powerful. I really think we should all be extremely cautious of what information we share.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I’m pretty sure the elims have a major incentive to let this game drag on for a while, especially if they are confident in their bet. The reason is that conversions are more powerful the later on in the game that they take place. On the flip side, if the village wins quickly (causing the elims to lose their bet), we’ll get a some flips that won’t tell us much, since we won’t have any discussion to draw further connections with.

For this reason, I think the elims would bet on an elim victory, since it necessarily takes longer. So while it won’t result in as much carnage, I’d be in favor of the elims outing themselves (or at least one of them doing so).

 

[Qianweilian He/him]

3 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I’m pretty sure the elims have a major incentive to let this game drag on for a while, especially if they are confident in their bet. The reason is that conversions are more powerful the later on in the game that they take place. On the flip side, if the village wins quickly (causing the elims to lose their bet), we’ll get a some flips that won’t tell us much, since we won’t have any discussion to draw further connections with.

For this reason, I think the elims would bet on an elim victory, since it necessarily takes longer. So while it won’t result in as much carnage, I’d be in favor of the elims outing themselves (or at least one of them doing so).

I agree. However, I don't know if outing the elims is a good idea. If the bet is village (probably not, but possible), revealing the elims would allow a Coinshot to sweep the game up rather quickly. If the bet is elim, and they don't have one of the meta elims on the pseudo elims, revealing the elims let's them know who to protect.

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

Alright guys just popping in quickly to say I’ll be offline for a while to sleep in a couple hours and then I’ll only be able to come back quickly in the morning for a post or two before arriving to school so maybe we should start getting to the business of deciding who to kill

Also, can someone make a list and maybe ping those who haven't participated yet?

[StrikerEZ he/him]

9 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Alright guys just popping in quickly to say I’ll be offline for a while to sleep in a couple hours and then I’ll only be able to come back quickly in the morning for a post or two before arriving to school so maybe we should start getting to the business of deciding who to kill

Also, can someone make a list and maybe ping those who haven't participated yet?

We have two IRL days for discussion. Night Zero was a short Cycle. The rest of them will be 48 hours each.

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

7 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

We have two IRL days for discussion. Night Zero was a short Cycle. The rest of them will be 48 hours each.

Isn’t the second half of the 48 hours the metagame, though?

[Qianweilian He/him]

1 minute ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Isn’t the second half of the 48 hours the metagame, though?

Yes it is. We only have 24 hours

[Araris Valerian he/him]

26 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

I agree. However, I don't know if outing the elims is a good idea. If the bet is village (probably not, but possible), revealing the elims would allow a Coinshot to sweep the game up rather quickly. If the bet is elim, and they don't have one of the meta elims on the pseudo elims, revealing the elims let's them know who to protect.

I’m not a fan of this. The only world in which outing the elims is bad is one where the meta bet is on the elims losing, and all the elims are metavillagers, and there is no metavillager Lurcher, and there is a metaelim Coinshot. Why should we make decisions based on an assumption of all of these things being true at the same time?

[Qianweilian He/him]

23 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I’m not a fan of this. The only world in which outing the elims is bad is one where the meta bet is on the elims losing, and all the elims are metavillagers, and there is no metavillager Lurcher, and there is a metaelim Coinshot. Why should we make decisions based on an assumption of all of these things being true at the same time?

Good point, I hadn't realized it before you laid it out all like that.

This game is really messing with my head

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

4 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Hey GMs, @The Unknown Medallion@Through the living Wahr I have a question

Will the result of the pseudocycle exe be revealed at the start of the next metacycle or the next pseudocycle?

Love to see it

At the beginning of the Metacycle

2 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

Oh, for sure. Sorry for the miscommunication.

Wait, really? I wasn't planning to do that, but I was under the impression that that was a legitimate tactic. I guess it doesn't come up often in elim docs.

I would like to think that the more public information, the better.

Impersonating other players is not allowed (unless you're Jo and clearly joking), however, staying anonymous is perfectly fine

1 hour ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Isn’t the second half of the 48 hours the metagame, though?

There will be a 48 hour Pseudocycle, then a separate 48 hour Metacycle

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Medallion said:

There will be a 48 hour Pseudocycle, then a separate 48 hour Metacycle

Oh ok coolio

[Kit_Kat She/Her]

6 hours ago, Myst said:

For why I think they’d have gone with a pseudo village win for the bet:

1. Everyone was talking about how a pseudo Elim was better

2. it’s possible to have the villagers win as early as pseudo day 2(not accounting for any coinshot help) as long as one Meta elim is also a pseudo Elim.

3. In the case the Meta Elim’s aren’t going for a fast game(for whatever reason), it’s a lot harder for us to anti-rig. Them killing off 4 pseudo Elim’s is a lot harder to stop than trying to reach village Elim parity.

the village wincon requires 4ish(I’ve been debating between 4-5 Elim’s) deaths, while the Elim wincon requires up to 12.

One of those is way easier to do

Very interesting!

[Verdance he/him]

Has someone got an example of a more complex and confusing game of SE?

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

Just now, Verdance said:

Has someone got an example of a more complex and confusing game of SE?

Aman’s Zelda game was so wonky I was too scared to play it

[coco.pudding she/they]

3 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Aman’s Zelda game was so wonky I was too scared to play it

I can confirm this one is miles more complicated

I got that one pretty quick. This one I’m still struggling with and think I probably will be for at least a couple more cycles.

[Through the living Wahr He/Him]

6 minutes ago, Verdance said:

Has someone got an example of a more complex and confusing game of SE?

I have seen a Ruleset that was played a few years ago, it was based on the KKC, the Google Doc with the Rules had like 30 Pages

I think that was way more complex

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

8 minutes ago, Verdance said:

Has someone got an example of a more complex and confusing game of SE?

Yes!

The one this is based on, LG92 was definitely more confusing. KKC is definitely more complex. I'd say it depends on the player whether this one is worse than the Shard games, and it's pretty comparable to the Majora's Mask game.

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

I was planning on posting an RP tonight but I’m too tired