Cosmere Adaptation Announcement

[Schizoposting]

I think that this adaptation deal is literally the best possible deal that Brandon could've conceivably gotten—he gets a major studio that has a good track record of producing high quality television, while at the same time maintaining a crazy amount of creative control.

The only issue is, given how much control Brandon has, the success or failure of the film will pretty much depend on him. And he doesn't necessarily have a ton of experience with adaptation. But hopefully, he's willing to listen to those with the relevant experience when necessary. 

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

And why is that?

They are the Words Of Brandon, yes?

Even Brandon says they are of a limited canonical status. Now I take a more inclusive view of their validity than Aliroz, but they are of a lower canonicity than the books are.

 

Also I don't think that making this about the content of the original Mistborn trilogy or whether or not we accept WoBs is a good idea.

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

15 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

And why is that?

They are the Words Of Brandon, yes?

In my opinion, the author alone does not determine canon.  To me, the editor and the publisher are necessary parts of the book existing, and so, anything that is not published on the printed page is not canon in my eyes.  If mister Sanderson wants something to be regarded as canon by me, he has to put it through the gauntlet of getting it onto the published page for the readers to read.  Otherwise, we get crud like whatever nonsense J.K. Rowling decides to write in between saying unforgivable things about marginalized people.

(And, to be fair, that WOB means that "Vin and Elend did not" and "Vin and Elend did" are equally acceptable interpretations according to mister Sanderson, so I still maintain that mister Sanderson meant for Mistborn's original trilogy to be validly interpreted in the way that I read it back in 2009, even if other interpretations are also valid).

10 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Even Brandon says they are of a limited canonical status. Now I take a more inclusive view of their validity than Aliroz, but they are of a lower canonicity than the books are.

 

Also I don't think that making this about the content of the original Mistborn trilogy or whether or not we accept WoBs is a good idea.

As always, Frus, you're on-point.  My apologies for derailing the thread.

May the adaptation be good, but not good enough that people forget to love the original books.  May it give people the same joy that the books give me.

Edited January 29 by Aliroz-The-Confused

[Keke They/he]

38 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Look, there's one and only one way I'm accepting this, and that's if mister Sanderson at long last remembers his roots.  Like Elantris, the Mistborn trilogy is is LDS fiction at its heart where girls don't kiss until 16, earrings are morally suspect, the true scripture is preserved in metal, the good guys never do drugs or gamble or swear (and if they do it's Ds and Hs) or drink caffeinated substances, preserving the memory of the past is a sacred duty, and dresses are always past the knee.  Alcohol is only had by adult anti-heroes and even then in moderation.  Breeze, the token worldly scumbag on the team, exists as a contrast to the actual protagonists. 

The casual reality of genocide, religious persecution, and the entire world being horrible and against you and full of sin and evil and not at all anything like the paradisiacal glory it ought to be (and becomes, in the end) resonates with, rather than contradicts, this framework, because that is the heritage and the worldview.

Mister Sanderson didn't drink Appeal-To-The-Hedonistic-Masses-With-Bawdy-Jokes-And-Go-PG-13 juice until 2010's The Way Of Kings.

Okay alot of this is older rules from the church. Most of that is from the 1900's And in WoK he is showing different cultures and societies, plus blackthorn is created for people who struggle but wanna get better. What do you define a sa good person? I know good people who would sacrifice everything for those they love, they swear, wear short dresses, have earrings. 

I classify myself as a good person, I swear, I used to have pierced ears. 

Personally if I see this as a creation I wanna see all aspects if it. Cause I wanna see kaladins struggle, I wanna see people struggle with the pain and get over it. Alot of people relate with addiction and the struggle to overcome it, dalinsr struggles with it. Kaladin with his depression, and renarin with trying to fit in in a place Where what you are isnt normal and people tend to shame you for it. I know so many people who like the archives because of how real they are, how they are brutally honest. 

I know for a fact that no where in lds rules or regulations that anyone who isn't exactly to our standards are hedons or even less than, quote "worldy scumbags". 

[NameIess]

49 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Look, there's one and only one way I'm accepting this, and that's if mister Sanderson at long last remembers his roots.  Like Elantris, the Mistborn trilogy is is LDS fiction at its heart where girls don't kiss until 16, earrings are morally suspect, the true scripture is preserved in metal, the good guys never do drugs or gamble or swear (and if they do it's Ds and Hs) or drink caffeinated substances, preserving the memory of the past is a sacred duty, and dresses are always past the knee.  Alcohol is only had by adult anti-heroes and even then in moderation.  Breeze, the token worldly scumbag on the team, exists as a contrast to the actual protagonists. 

The casual reality of genocide, religious persecution, and the entire world being horrible and against you and full of sin and evil and not at all anything like the paradisiacal glory it ought to be (and becomes, in the end) resonates with, rather than contradicts, this framework, because that is the heritage and the worldview.

Mister Sanderson didn't drink Appeal-To-The-Hedonistic-Masses-With-Bawdy-Jokes-And-Go-PG-13 juice until 2010's The Way Of Kings.

Okay, I do agree with you in hoping the adaptation is clean. A big part of why I stopped watching the Wheel of Time adaptation partway through the first season is the added sexual content.

(Wheel of Time show spoilers)

Spoiler

Like, did we really need Egwene and Rand to be having sex? I gave up before this part of the show, but Nyneave is having premarital sex with Lan? She is literally the last character who would ever do something like that.

And unfortunately, I feel like that sort of thing is the most likely kind of change that will ruin an adaptation for me, considering Brandon is writing the screenplay. I don't think he'll change the story in terrible ways, although he has been open about some of the things he would change specifically due to the medium, and also Atium because the Electrum-Atium thing is weird. But I do think he might add sexual content, or at least allow it to be added.

21 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

And why is that?

They are the Words Of Brandon, yes?

Death of the Author (I don't like taking this idea to extremes, but in this case the concept definitely applies). WoB's can provide useful insight into Brandon's thoughts on a subject, especially for magic systems, but he can't say something is in the books when it's not, ergo his thoughts are not necessarily canon. Even in that WoB, he specifies that he wanted to leave it up to the reader, which is why it was only sort of implied that Vin and Elend were sleeping together before their marriage.

[Keke They/he]

2 minutes ago, NameIess said:

Okay, I do agree with you in hoping the adaptation is clean. A big part of why I stopped watching the Wheel of Time adaptation partway through the first season is the added sexual content.

(Wheel of Time show spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Like, did we really need Egwene and Rand to be having sex? I gave up before this part of the show, but Nyneave is having premarital sex with Lan? She is literally the last character who would ever do something like that.

And unfortunately, I feel like that sort of thing is the most likely kind of change that will ruin an adaptation for me, considering Brandon is writing the screenplay. I don't think he'll change the story in terrible ways, although he has been open about some of the things he would change specifically due to the medium, and also Atium because the Electrum-Atium thing is weird. But I do think he might add sexual content, or at least allow it to be added.

Death of the Author (I don't like taking this idea to extremes, but in this case the concept definitely applies). WoB's can provide useful insight into Brandon's thoughts on a subject, especially for magic systems, but he can't say something is in the books when it's not, ergo his thoughts are not necessarily canon. Even in that WoB, he specifies that he wanted to leave it up to the reader, which is why it was only sort of implied that Vin and Elend were sleeping together before their marriage.

In some ways I agree with keeping it clean. But dont change the story, just imply it and move on. I think the show supernatural does it to much. But other shows are like, okay they kiss and then cuuuut next day. Which is what I would imagine them doing. 

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

24 minutes ago, Keke said:

Okay alot of this is older rules from the church. Most of that is from the 1900's And in WoK he is showing different cultures and societies, plus blackthorn is created for people who struggle but wanna get better. What do you define a sa good person? I know good people who would sacrifice everything for those they love, they swear, wear short dresses, have earrings. 

I classify myself as a good person, I swear, I used to have pierced ears. 

Personally if I see this as a creation I wanna see all aspects if it. Cause I wanna see kaladins struggle, I wanna see people struggle with the pain and get over it. Alot of people relate with addiction and the struggle to overcome it, dalinsr struggles with it. Kaladin with his depression, and renarin with trying to fit in in a place Where what you are isnt normal and people tend to shame you for it. I know so many people who like the archives because of how real they are, how they are brutally honest. 

I know for a fact that no where in lds rules or regulations that anyone who isn't exactly to our standards are hedons or even less than, quote "worldy scumbags". 

Keke, Breeze isn't a scumbag because he isn't exactly to my personal idea of high standards, he's a scumbag because he regularly uses magic to control people's emotions and thus compromise their free will, and is in a relationship with a much younger person in which the consent of either party is incredibly dubious at best and actively compromised by any but an incredibly charitable reading.  Also, he was Lord Ladrian, and I'm pretty sure that involved some evil heinous crud (especially regarding his ability to control people's emotions) that his actions for the Crew are an attempt to redeem himself for.

Yes, mister Sanderson writes stuff for those who don't live by the way I live.  It's just... it's just that he wrote Elantris and Mistborn in such a way that they could be interpreted as having been written for me, for people who live the way I live...  and almost nothing else in fiction ever did that, ever connected to my life experience, ever made me feel like I was understood and belonged and that maybe the author was thinking of someone like me when he wrote these people and wrote them to be good despite having some of the same flaws I do.

I don't begrudge him for including everyone else.  I just... I just feel like it left me behind in some ways, for people who needed the representation more, who needed to feel included more.  And I'm fine with that, but if he's going back over that territory that feels like Home and Safe to me... I don't want to feel excluded, you know?  I don't want to feel like it was never really for me and that it was only incidentally and mistakenly that I connected to the work.

Every other book, fine, I made my peace with it back in 2010 (Appeal-To-The-Hedonistic-Masses-With-Bawdy-Jokes-And-Go-PG-13 juice was meant as joke more than a real criticism, after all, we'd lose Shakespeare and Euripides and all the good that they have to offer, all the lessons they have to teach, if we insisted everything be PG all the time), but I'd really like for Elantris and Mistborn to stay as something that I could connect with the way that other people connect with Stormlight.

Edited January 29 by Aliroz-The-Confused

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Keke said:

In some ways I agree with keeping it clean. But dont change the story, just imply it and move on. I think the show supernatural does it to much. But other shows are like, okay they kiss and then cuuuut next day. Which is what I would imagine them doing. 

I'm fine with that. Only having that happen after Vin and Elend are married would be even better. I would complain if characters are thrown into relationships not in the books for little reason (Like, say, if the Stormlight show has Shallan and Kabsal in a sexual relationship).

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, NameIess said:

I'm fine with that. Only having that happen after Vin and Elend are married would be even better. I would complain if characters are thrown into relationships not in the books for little reason (Like, say, if the Stormlight show has Shallan and Kabsal in a sexual relationship).

I hate that you put that idea in my head.

I was already skeptical of the adaptations.

3 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Keke, Breeze isn't a scumbag because he isn't exactly to my personal idea of high standards, he's a scumbag because he regularly uses magic to control people's emotions and thus compromise their free will, and is in a relationship with a much younger person in which the consent of either party is incredibly dubious at best and actively compromised by any but an incredibly charitable reading.  Also, he was Lord Ladrian, and I'm pretty sure that involved some evil heinous crud (especially regarding his ability to control people's emotions) that his actions for the Crew are an attempt to redeem himself for.

Yes, mister Sanderson writes stuff for those who don't live by the way I live.  It's just... it's just that he wrote Elantris and Mistborn in such a way that they could be interpreted as having been written for me, for people who live the way I live...  and almost nothing else in fiction ever did that, ever connected to my life experience, ever made me feel like I was understood and belonged and that maybe the author was thinking of someone like me when he wrote these people and wrote them to be good despite having some of the same flaws I do.

I don't begrudge him for including everyone else.  I just... I just feel like it left me behind.  And I'm fine with that, but if he's going back over that territory that feels like Home and Safe to me... I don't want to feel excluded, you know?  I don't want to feel like it was never really for me and that it was only incidentally and mistakenly that I connected to the work.

Every other book, fine, I made my peace with it back in 2010 (Appeal-To-The-Hedonistic-Masses-With-Bawdy-Jokes-And-Go-PG-13 juice was meant as joke more than a real criticism), but I'd really like for Elantris and Mistborn to stay as something that I could connect with the way that other people connect with Stormlight.

I honestly feel that(and working and writing more books like that precisely for that reason).

[Nesh he/him]

I feel like Brandon knows why the stories worked, and what his fans liked.  Yes, there will be changes, he's already talked about some of the changes he wants in Final Empire, some of which I'm unsure about, but with this much creative control, I'm sure the general plot and spirit will be there, and if worse comes to worse the books aren't going anywhere.

[Chaos he/him]

1 hour ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

We know he outright loathes Elantris, having said as much in interviews.

That's... so not what he actually said. I believe he has said it is one of his weaker written novels, which I think is not a controversial statement. It's just old writing of his; his prose generally has gotten far better than it. I love Elantris; it got me into Brandon's works, but it's rougher than the new stuff.

Adaptations don't destroy the original books. They will always be here for us to enjoy. 

I'm pretty excited (and have a video coming out very soon on it). I am concerned about Hollywood taking up time in Brandon's schedule. I am not really worried about Ghostbloods' release, but I think if these adaptations get off the ground, it will be challenging to balance a Stormlight show and new Stormlight.

[Keke They/he]

4 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Keke, Breeze isn't a scumbag because he isn't exactly to my personal idea of high standards, he's a scumbag because he regularly uses magic to control people's emotions and thus compromise their free will, and is in a relationship with a much younger person in which the consent of either party is incredibly dubious at best and actively compromised by any but an incredibly charitable reading.  Also, he was Lord Ladrian, and I'm pretty sure that involved some evil heinous crud (especially regarding his ability to control people's emotions) that his actions for the Crew are an attempt to redeem himself for.

Yes, mister Sanderson writes stuff for those who don't live by the way I live.  It's just... it's just that he wrote Elantris and Mistborn in such a way that they could be interpreted as having been written for me, for people who live the way I live...  and almost nothing else in fiction ever did that, ever connected to my life experience, ever made me feel like I was understood and belonged and that maybe the author was thinking of someone like me when he wrote these people and wrote them to be good despite having some of the same flaws I do.

I don't begrudge him for including everyone else.  I just... I just feel like it left me behind in some ways, for people who needed the representation more, who needed to feel included more.  And I'm fine with that, but if he's going back over that territory that feels like Home and Safe to me... I don't want to feel excluded, you know?  I don't want to feel like it was never really for me and that it was only incidentally and mistakenly that I connected to the work.

Every other book, fine, I made my peace with it back in 2010 (Appeal-To-The-Hedonistic-Masses-With-Bawdy-Jokes-And-Go-PG-13 juice was meant as joke more than a real criticism), but I'd really like for Elantris and Mistborn to stay as something that I could connect with the way that other people connect with Stormlight.

Okay, thar makes sense. Sorry i kinda have issues speaking before thinking. 

Thanks for explaining! I misunderstood what you were saying and that's on me. Im glad you found a place in his books!

I do agree that they shouldnt change from the books. I was defensive of breeze cause I saw me in him I geuss. Wanting to atone for your mistakes and whatnot. Same reasons why I love kelsier despite his whole thing. 

I doubt Brandon is gonna change anytbing about it. If he does there will be alot of anger. Ik ill be angry at that. I was raised in the lds church so in some ways I understand, though by the time I was old enough alot of rules changed. 

But im glad that you can see that the books were also written for everyone. I've come across to many people who were mad to have said groups included. (Eg, renarin and such.)

Also sorry for getting so worked up about the whole "good person" thing. 

4 minutes ago, NameIess said:

I'm fine with that. Only having that happen after Vin and Elend are married would be even better. I would complain if characters are thrown into relationships not in the books for little reason (Like, say, if the Stormlight show has Shallan and Kabsal in a sexual relationship).

Yeah no if they throw random crap in there im fighting. 

[NameIess]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I hate that you put that idea in my head.

I was already skeptical of the adaptations.

I mean, there (fortunately) aren't too many other possible relationships that could be hollywooded. (Except Vin and Zane please Brandon don't do that I cannot express in words how awful that would be).

[Chaos he/him]

Personally I doubt Brandon would add much "sex sells" stuff. I think this is an advantage of, say, going with Apple vs. HBO. 

I am curious what he'd do with the violence in Mistborn era 1. I know he's said it's a bit too far for him in retrospect, and seeing it in a visual medium makes it far more visceral. I wonder the balance will be. 

[Keke They/he]

Just now, Chaos said:

Personally I doubt Brandon would add much "sex sells" stuff. I think this is an advantage of, say, going with Apple vs. HBO. 

I am curious what he'd do with the violence in Mistborn era 1. I know he's said it's a bit too far for him in retrospect, and seeing it in a visual medium makes it far more visceral. I wonder the balance will be. 

Hmm true. 

I watch so many gory/violent movies so I just thought they would do the full fight no filter. Maybe do something like with anime. I think largely it depends on hoe they do it. Animation or live action.  

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

4 minutes ago, NameIess said:

I mean, there (fortunately) aren't too many other possible relationships that could be hollywooded. (Except Vin and Zane please Brandon don't do that I cannot express in words how awful that would be).

If this happens, we riot.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, NameIess said:

I mean, there (fortunately) aren't too many other possible relationships that could be hollywooded. (Except Vin and Zane please Brandon don't do that I cannot express in words how awful that would be).

 Uh please no that would be beyond terrible.

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Personally I doubt Brandon would add much "sex sells" stuff. I think this is an advantage of, say, going with Apple vs. HBO. 

I am curious what he'd do with the violence in Mistborn era 1. I know he's said it's a bit too far for him in retrospect, and seeing it in a visual medium makes it far more visceral. I wonder the balance will be. 

That's actually a really interesting point and it makes me wonder what he'll do with Vin's headbutt in WoA.

That's a very brutal scene, but the brutality of it is also important to the plot and Vins' relationships with Elend and Zane. I'm not sure how you handle that without serious rewriting, or maybe very careful camera work

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

If this happens, we riot.

If by riot you mean complain online and to any Sanderfans we know irl, then yes, we will riot. (and be very sad)

Anyways, this has gotten a bit derailed with talks about things we're afraid of happening, so I'll talk about some things I'm excited for:

Allomancy in live action. Especially steelpushing and ironpulling, that will be really cool if done well. Brandon's talked about using blue lines for other types of allomancy, as a way to adapt it better for a visual medium, and I think that could be really cool. Atium would also translate really well to live action I think.

Live action inquisitors. They were awesome villains when in book form. In live action, they could be even more awesome.

Assuming Mistborn does well, an SA TV show could be really cool as well. Lashings and Stormlight in live action? Bridge runs? Soulcasting? chasmfiends? Assuming Brandon gets a big budget (which it sounds like he's getting) then all that stuff could be very cool.

[Chaos he/him]

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That's actually a really interesting point and it makes me wonder what he'll do with Vin's headbutt in WoA.

That's a very brutal scene, but the brutality of it is also important to the plot and Vins' relationships with Elend and Zane. I'm not sure how you handle that without serious rewriting, or maybe very careful camera work

Honestly, I would be down for Era 1 to be fairly violent. I legitimately think it adds to the setting that it is kind of horrific. Executions there should be brutal. But I wonder what Brandon thinks of the violence level. Like, there's no way he'd make it rated R, so it probably wouldn't be that brutal.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Honestly, I would be down for Era 1 to be fairly violent. I legitimately think it adds to the setting that it is kind of horrific. Executions there should be brutal. But I wonder what Brandon thinks of the violence level. Like, there's no way he'd make it rated R, so it probably wouldn't be that brutal.

I wouldn't be too against it myself. I generally don't have a huge issue with violence, but liquidating someone's head with bits of skull and brains in a way that doesn't look like a cheap slasher film using red Kool-aid, while also not being vomit-inducingly realistic is(I think) going to be tricky.

[NameIess]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Honestly, I would be down for Era 1 to be fairly violent. I legitimately think it adds to the setting that it is kind of horrific. Executions there should be brutal. But I wonder what Brandon thinks of the violence level. Like, there's no way he'd make it rated R, so it probably wouldn't be that brutal.

Yes, I would be fine with a fairly violent movie, especially considering Kelsier. And also thinking about the Marsh scene, the books were very brutal in a way that doesn't really hit you (or at least me) the same way as it would in a visual format

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I wouldn't be too against it myself. I generally don't have a huge issue with violence, but liquidating someone's head with bits of skull and brains in a way that doesn't look like a cheap slasher film using red Kool-aid, while also not being vomit-inducingly realistic is(I think) going to be tricky.

I could see that being a cut away, focusing more on Elend's reaction.

[Myst He/Him]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I wouldn't be too against it myself. I generally don't have a huge issue with violence, but liquidating someone's head with bits of skull and brains in a way that doesn't look like a cheap slasher film using red Kool-aid, while also not being vomit-inducingly realistic is(I think) going to be tricky.

I really hope it’s not R or anything, because I want to be a least comfortable watching it

That said, I can see him making that one scene very realistic, as it kinda fits. If we, the viewer look away, we immediately bond with Elend and his reaction 

Edited January 29 by Mistfallen Soldier
Scene

[Chaos he/him]

Yeah, it's really like, the amount of blood and gore. 

Oh, I also made a video in case anyone wants more of my thoughts: 

 

[Schizoposting]

Honestly, I think that the film ought to be R rated, even though it's probably going to be PG-13 to get a wider audience—the violence should be disturbing, and not just cheap entertainment. Otherwise, you really undermine the gravitas of the setting (which is already over the top violent and brutal as others have already pointed out).

 

[Myst He/Him]

Random thought in my head:

canonically rosharians are taller than the people on Scadrial.

At some point these people will interact.

In order to keep fans happy, the same actors will have to be used across all movies for a character.

so… how are they going to manage that? Get exclusively people from Arabian peninsula over 6 5’ for stormlight? And then cast only people under 6ft or something for every single other movie/TV show?