Revised analysis of the Terris Prophecies

[AleStaar he/him]

 

Continuation of this post. i have a lot of fun thinking about the prophecies, so I figure I should make a new thread. Especially now that I'm rereading Mistborn and paying extra attention to the prophecies.

Because essentially I think there’s a lot more to the Terris Prophecies that need to be fulfilled. I don’t think Sazed fulfilled every part of it. Discord being one thing he didn't fulfill, maybe. Unless Sazed is lying about holding the Shard Harmony or wants to become Discord.

I think the Prophecies have very subtle wording that hint they stretch further into the future and “wider” into future possibilities. Past the Catacendre. 

Quote

Sometimes, I worry that I’m not the hero everyone thinks I am.

 The philosophers assure me that this is the time, that the signs have been met. But I still wonder if they have the wrong man. So many people depend on me. They say I will hold the future of the entire world on my arms.

What would they think if they knew that their champion—the Hero of Ages, their savior—doubted himself? Perhaps they wouldn’t be shocked at all. In a way, this is what worries me most. Maybe, in their hearts, they wonder—just as I do.

When they see me, do they see a liar?

 

We already know “I will hold future of the entire world on my arms” refers to Sazed tapping all the memories in his copperminds simultaneously to taking up both Preservation and Ruin. It’s one of the core messages Ruin couldn’t foresee. 

You could argue Sazed fulfilled his role as savior. To all of Scadrial, I guess. Alendi probably was seen as savior to both the Terris and Khlenni people

But Era 1 and 2 don’t have Sazed being a champion.

We also don't know enough about pre-Final Empire Scadrial to know the nature of Alendi being seen as a liar. And since Sazed didn't believe he's the Hero of Ages until he picked up both Shards, he couldn't be seen as a liar.

Edited August 16, 2025 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[AleStaar he/him]

Quote

I consider myself to be a man of principle. But, what man does not? Even the cutthroat, I have noticed, considers his actions “moral” after a fashion.

    Perhaps another person, reading of my life, would name me a religious tyrant. He could call me arrogant. What is to make that man’s opinion any less valid than my own?

 I guess it all comes down to one fact: In the end, I’m the one with the armies.

I’m surprised Alendi vaguely mentioned religion. He didn’t come across as a religious person in any of the epigraphs.

“I’m the one with the armies” gives me chills. I’m also curious how much manpower and how many nations he had under his belt

Quote

If men read these words, let them know that power is a heavy burden. Seek not to be bound by its chains. The Terris prophecies say that I will have the power to save the world.

They hint, however, that I will have the power to destroy it as well.

I’m about to sound like a heretic the further I get into the Prophecies

Okay so… we know “I will have the power to save the world” refers to Sazed picking up Preservation.

We know “I will have the power to destroy it” refers to Sazed picking up Ruin. 

Since the prophecies have both lines, combined they refer to Sazed picking up both Preservation and Ruin. Ascending to the new Vessel of both.

But I wonder if “power is a heavy burden” and “bound by its chains” are subtle wording in the prophecies.

“heavy” could refer to the Hero being a Feruchemist.

The prophecies do mention a Burden by which the Hero shall be dubbed. Alendi believed it was his defense of the Summer Hill. Sazed was never called the Hero, so… perhaps Sazed hasn’t fulfilled his Burden yet. Unless the Catacendre was the Burden.

“heavy burden” or “power is a heavy burden” could refer to the Catacendre. Or being the Vessel of Preservation and Ruin. Or just generally the heavy burden of being seen as a hero to so many people. Or I’m overanalyzing it.

“bound by its chains”…. how about the chains of stagnation that comes from Harmony / the responsibility of being Harmony or Discord. Or bound by the duty of being the hero.

All this could also refer to Alendi’s relatively mundane career of leading humanity against the Deepness.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

18 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

 

Continuation of this post. i have a lot of fun thinking about the prophecies, so I figure I should make a new thread. Especially now that I'm rereading Mistborn and paying extra attention to the prophecies.

Because essentially I think there’s a lot more to the Terris Prophecies that need to be fulfilled. I don’t think Sazed fulfilled every part of it. Discord being one thing he didn't fulfill, maybe. Unless Sazed is lying about holding the Shard Harmony or wants to become Discord.

I think the Prophecies have very subtle wording that hint they stretch further into the future and “wider” into future possibilities. Past the Catacendre. 

We already know “I will hold future of the entire world on my arms” refers to Sazed tapping all the memories in his copperminds simultaneously to taking up both Preservation and Ruin. It’s one of the core messages Ruin couldn’t foresee. 

You could argue Sazed fulfilled his role as savior. To all of Scadrial, I guess. Alendi probably was seen as savior to both the Terris and Khlenni people

But Era 1 and 2 don’t have Sazed being a champion.

We also don't know enough about pre-Final Empire Scadrial to know the nature of Alendi being seen as a liar. And since Sazed didn't believe he's the Hero of Ages until he picked up both Shards, he couldn't be seen as a liar.

3 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I’m surprised Alendi vaguely mentioned religion. He didn’t come across as a religious person in any of the epigraphs.

“I’m the one with the armies” gives me chills. I’m also curious how much manpower and how many nations he had under his belt

I’m about to sound like a heretic the further I get into the Prophecies

Okay so… we know “I will have the power to save the world” refers to Sazed picking up Preservation.

We know “I will have the power to destroy it” refers to Sazed picking up Ruin. 

Since the prophecies have both lines, combined they refer to Sazed picking up both Preservation and Ruin. Ascending to the new Vessel of both.

But I wonder if “power is a heavy burden” and “bound by its chains” are subtle wording in the prophecies.

“heavy” could refer to the Hero being a Feruchemist.

The prophecies do mention a Burden by which the Hero shall be dubbed. Alendi believed it was his defense of the Summer Hill. Sazed was never called the Hero, so… perhaps Sazed hasn’t fulfilled his Burden yet. Unless the Catacendre was the Burden.

“heavy burden” or “power is a heavy burden” could refer to the Catacendre. Or being the Vessel of Preservation and Ruin. Or just generally the heavy burden of being seen as a hero to so many people. Or I’m overanalyzing it.

“bound by its chains”…. how about the chains of stagnation that comes from Harmony / the responsibility of being Harmony or Discord. Or bound by the duty of being the hero.

All this could also refer to Alendi’s relatively mundane career of leading humanity against the Deepness.

I feel like we have to remember that there wasn't just one hero (Sazed) there were two (Sazed and Vin)

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

I feel like we have to remember that there wasn't just one hero (Sazed) there were two (Sazed and Vin)

There were several

• UNK Hero from the Well 1024 years before Alendi
• Alendi
• Rashek
• Vin
• Sazed

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

23 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

There were several

• UNK Hero from the Well 1024 years before Alendi
• Alendi
• Rashek
• Vin
• Sazed

UNK Hero? Where was that stated?

[Treamayne]

46 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

UNK Hero? Where was that stated?

Stated is a bit strong. Implied because Scadrial is likely around 5-6k years old and the Well refills every 1024 years (old enough for society of Alendi's time to have Gunpowder). The Terris prophecies had to have been at least one Millenial Cycle before Alendi, or they would not be known and spread - which implies the Well had a Hero access it at least once before Rashek. 

Spoiler

 

Quote

 

Chaos (paraphrased)

Why did the Well of Ascension refill every thousand years rather than 500 or 200, etc.?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's actually every 1024 years. The Lord Ruler just befuddled the information a bit.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

Quote

Questioner

Can Odium or any other [Shards] edit text like Ruin could? ...Or is that a special Ruin thing.  

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible for others as well. The trick about it is, [Ruin] saturated everything on Scadrial in a way that not all Shards saturate their planets.  

Questioner

Okay, what do you mean "saturate"?

Brandon Sanderson

Creating it, does that make sense? And so this was partially an aspect of the fact that everything on that planet, every atom was, y'know, had him in it... I mean he didn't create the atoms, let's say that, but yeah... The whole planet's existence and particularly the people on it are [Ruin], attuned to [Ruin].

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

Quote

PricklyBear

When Scadrial was closer to the sun, can we safely assume that the middle section of the planet was scorched clean of anything living? Could there have been some underground life thing going on? Anything cool or interesting sitting out there (like ruins or some lost technology)?

Brandon Sanderson

The middle section was scorched pretty clean. I know of a few interesting tidbits, but it's not technology. (The tech level before the Lord Ruler took over was nothing particularly special, early industrial era.) The cool and interesting things are on the southern continent.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

 

 

Edited August 16, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

45 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Stated is a bit strong. Implied because Scadrial is likely around 5-6k years old and the Well refills every 1024 years (old enough for society of Alendi's time to have Gunpowder). The Terris prophecies had to have been at least one Millenial Cycle before Alendi, or they would not be known and spread - which implies the Well had a Hero access it at least once before Rashek. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Oh okay, that makes sense.

[AleStaar he/him]

Just realized “I will hold the future of the entire world on my arms” could also refer to Kelsier. His scars.

Not implying that Kelsier is / was the Hero of Ages. But it could be another sign that Kelsier had a massive role to play in Preservation’s plan

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

On 8/16/2025 at 2:14 PM, Treamayne said:

There were several

• UNK Hero from the Well 1024 years before Alendi
• Alendi
• Rashek
• Vin
• Sazed

is it 1024 because 16x16x4?

[Treamayne]

13 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

is it 1024 because 16x16x4?

Brandon has not answered that - fan theory is 2^10 (or 4^5). I personally think it is four to the fifth power (4 metal quadrants + godmetals at least makes using a calculation to the power of five fit the worldbuilding) since we know the timing would be a realmatic effect of how Preservation's power interacts with the Spiritual and Cognitive nature of Scadrial, rather than a "chosen" number). 

Likely, it's 1024 because of author reasons where he wanted something based on pairs (like the metals) but closer to an even millenium (2^16, which would make more sense is far too long for the timeline at 65536 years - and 2^8 (eight pairs) is too short at only 256 years. . . ). Justification in worldbuilding likely came after choosing the number itself. 

WoB:

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

Why did the Well of Ascension refill every thousand years rather than 500 or 200, etc.?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's actually every 1024 years. The Lord Ruler just befuddled the information a bit.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 Hope that helps

PS: Further evidence of a "Hero" before Rashek - he could not know it was a pattern of 1024 years if the Well he used wasn't at least the second iteration. 

Edited August 20, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG/PS

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 8/19/2025 at 11:39 AM, Treamayne said:

PS: Further evidence of a "Hero" before Rashek - he could not know it was a pattern of 1024 years if the Well he used wasn't at least the second iteration. 

Actually, would it be necessary for Rashek to know of a previous Ascension, or could the Well itself just have told him?

He learned a lot just holding the power, including many secrets to Allomancy if memory serves me right. Knowing when the Well would refill seems like a very reasonable bit of info to glean from it.

[Treamayne]

4 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Actually, would it be necessary for Rashek to know of a previous Ascension, or could the Well itself just have told him?

He learned a lot just holding the power, including many secrets to Allomancy if memory serves me right. Knowing when the Well would refill seems like a very reasonable bit of info to glean from it.

Right, but as Kelsier showed - you also have to know to ask the question to learn the information. If he had gone into the Well thinking it was a one-time event with no knowledge of a "cycle" at all, why would he have learned anything about why the Well was on a cycle and the reason for a Hero to claim and use the power?

[therunner he/him]

8 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Right, but as Kelsier showed - you also have to know to ask the question to learn the information. If he had gone into the Well thinking it was a one-time event with no knowledge of a "cycle" at all, why would he have learned anything about why the Well was on a cycle and the reason for a Hero to claim and use the power?

He could have simply asked if this would happen again (which he would since he was concerned with keeping Ruin imprisoned), at which point he would learn about the cycle.

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

 

 

On 8/21/2025 at 4:23 PM, Treamayne said:

Right, but as Kelsier showed - you also have to know to ask the question to learn the information. If he had gone into the Well thinking it was a one-time event with no knowledge of a "cycle" at all, why would he have learned anything about why the Well was on a cycle and the reason for a Hero to claim and use the power?

How would he have learned about a third art, then? He wouldn't have any way of knowing about it, right?

[Treamayne]

31 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

How would he have learned about a third art, then? He wouldn't have any way of knowing about it, right?

By "he" do you mean Kelsier or Rashek?

If TLR, then WoB:

Spoiler

Quote

Vegasdev

Alendi's "Piercings of the Hero"?

Brandon Sanderson

This is part of the manipulation Ruin did during the classical era on Scadrial, before the coming of the Lord Ruler. Piercings, and Hemalurgy, were part of the world before the coming of Allomancy in its modern form. Then, they were seen as a means of communicating with deity—which, indeed, they were. Ruin manipulated this to make sure any Hero of Ages who came would be under his influence. The reference is included mostly to indicate that yes, Alendi was under Ruin's influence. He ignored Rashek, though. (At least, right up to the moment when everything went 'wrong' for Ruin, when Rashek killed his chosen Hero of Ages.)

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Rashek was aware of Hemalurgy - the original Terris Prophecies included them; so he knew enough to learn what he needed while holding the Power of the Well. It's also implied that Ruin had been manipulating Rashek through his piercings before, and possibly during, his time in the Well (they were not Hemalurgy, like Vin's Earring, so he would not have been forced to remove his Piercings to take the Power of the Well). 

Hope that helps

[lacrossedeamon]

On 8/16/2025 at 8:46 PM, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Just realized “I will hold the future of the entire world on my arms” could also refer to Kelsier. His scars.

Not implying that Kelsier is / was the Hero of Ages. But it could be another sign that Kelsier had a massive role to play in Preservation’s plan

Tangential to this. I feel the Terris prophecies might not actually be Scadrial specific but more a cosmere constant. A lot of the quoted lines could apply to Vasher:
 

Spoiler

He shall defend their ways, yet shall violate them. He will be their savior, yet they shall call him heretic. - Saving Idris as a Returned
His name shall be Discord - Strifelover

He left ruin in his wake, but it was forgotten. He created kingdoms, and then destroyed them as he made the world anew. - The Manywar

There are more that fit as well but also some that don't but that applies to Sazed as well e.g marrying the daughter of a king. Likewise I think Dalinar and maybe even Raoden could be Heroes of Ages as well.

[Jult]

On 8/26/2025 at 12:54 PM, lacrossedeamon said:

Tangential to this. I feel the Terris prophecies might not actually be Scadrial specific but more a cosmere constant. A lot of the quoted lines could apply to Vasher:
 

  Hide contents

He shall defend their ways, yet shall violate them. He will be their savior, yet they shall call him heretic. - Saving Idris as a Returned
His name shall be Discord - Strifelover

He left ruin in his wake, but it was forgotten. He created kingdoms, and then destroyed them as he made the world anew. - The Manywar

There are more that fit as well but also some that don't but that applies to Sazed as well e.g marrying the daughter of a king. Likewise I think Dalinar and maybe even Raoden could be Heroes of Ages as well.

This never occurred to me, and I find it super interesting. "Terris" just comes from the word "Terr" which means "to Preserve". If "Terris" means "people of Preservation" then it pretty much just means "people" since all living things are of Preservation. So, the three prophecies that mention the Terris people specifically, could just be translation errors:

“The Hero of Ages was removed from the Terris people. He was not royalty himself, but came to it eventually. ”

“...One who is separated from the Terris people, a king of men, a rebel caught between two worlds. ”

“The Terris  people rejected him, but he came to lead them. ”

I wonder if there is a character somewhere in the Cosmere that will fit every prophecy.

[lacrossedeamon]

29 minutes ago, Jult said:

I wonder if there is a character somewhere in the Cosmere that will fit every prophecy.

 

Spoiler

Hoid? By the end of the cosmere at least. But I think it's less about a single specific person and more an archetype that reoccurs throughout the cosmere.

Edited August 28, 2025 by lacrossedeamon