Quick Fix 76: Judgement on the Shores of the Purelake

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

This is why I can never leave the shard un-checked for long. *sighs*

19 hours ago, TwinStorm said:

Okay, why vote for me? Also, I'm not liking any of CD's votes, all of which have little to no ground and feel like he's just throwing up votes for the sake of it.

Sorry I was trying to get a read which I thought was what people were doing

18 hours ago, Doc12 said:

Current votes

AskthePizzaGuy: (2) Hoid Slayer, IcedOutPenguin 

Aeternum: (1) KelsierApologist 

Twinstorm: (1) CoderDrag0n8 

TUO: (1) Doc12

KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren: (1) ThatOneWorldhopper 

CD (1): Twinstorm

ThatOneWorldhopper (1): TheUnknownOrder 

Current Reads, positive to negative.

@Hoid Slayer/Wishikk Makar: Positive just because of how hard they're pushing for information. What are your thoughts now that Pizzaguy has shown they're paying attention and given their thoughts?

Pizzaguy/Greebas - Positive. Honestly can see why people are frustrated. It's a lot of RP, but they have posted their reads list and seem to be paying a lot of attention to thread and note taking. The refusal to vote is not helpful, but we do know where they stand and what they think, so I'm inclined to give them a pass for now. 

Twinstorm: mildly positive. throwing out poke votes, trying to get people to post reads.

KelsierApologist / Mehlarin / Polly: Mildly positive, has been poking and trying to get people like Aeternum to talk.

@The Unknown Order - Hello old friend! You seem pretty awake now that you're posting more and voting. Vote's staying on you for now until you tell me why you voted Worldhopper.  

ThatOneWorldhopper: Nothing right now. They vote on a dice, I've seen it before. Doesn't tell us anything. Claimed distrust of CD and Penguin.

@CoderDrag0n8: Is being a little suspicious from jumping on the Striker vote, then voting on Twinstorm. As others have pointed out, seem to be voting for the sake of voting. Which is not inherently suspicious, but still mildly negative leaning. Did you get the reaction you were looking for from Twinstorm?

@IcedOutPenguin: Came out strong voting for CD, then switched to Pizzaguy. Feeling a little suspicious, feels like following the crowd and switching to acceptable target. Did Pizzaguy's post satisfy you enough to change your vote?

Have posted but nothing concrete: @KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren (1 RP post), @Aeternum(2 posts, mostly rule clarifications)

Have not posted: @Booknewt, @StrikerEZ

I think so?

18 hours ago, KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren said:

CD did do the same thing in the Threnodite game though... he voted for himself at some point.

 

I am posting nothing substantial because I too do not like D1s. I take them as RP opportunities.

I have about 20 minutes left until I have to leave for school, so anything said after that I most likely will not be able to respond to until after rollover.

I'm not good at voting, it apears.

16 hours ago, Aeternum said:

Hi Pizza

e!Iced did this last time we played together lol.

CD's post here voting TwinStorm is a bit odd, given it feels like jumping from one random vote to another. CD generally looks lost in thread in a more elim way than a towny way imo. This can be a new player thing (insert line about my new player reading track record here) that I'm misreading, but I expect a slightly different approach from a lost v!CD. This is probably the towniest thing CD has posted imo, or the least elim indicative, but it's not enough to shift my read significantly.

@Askthepizzaguy you townread CD slightly, can you talk about that? And also your Iced read.

Pizza is ok for today. I'll always be hesitant to townread him because he is a very scary elim player when he wants to be, but his current posting is fine and generally in the direction I'd expect from v!Pizza. This is most of my reasoning for that, and some of his general posting around him being voted.

Also, since there's been some pressure to get players to vote, and Pizza is the type of player who doesn't like to vote a lot, so it's not out of character for him to have not voted (or to just not vote here).

Hoid Slayer is towny. TUO is chill and I'm reading that as towny. I like Doc12 rn. KelsierApologist is probably fine for today, I'd put her above null.

D1 just didn't have any evidence, and I was very confused.

13 hours ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

The whatever non-Justice Seeker faction has a murder that also happens during "day" since this is a day and night combined game.

So they choose the murder while the entire group chooses the daily vote elimination.

 

 

I remain unimpressed with CD's votes and methods.

I remain unimpressed with Iced / Richard's votes and methods.

I was confused, alright?

12 hours ago, Booknewt said:

Prob the following (hopefully these work quotes have NOT been cooperative with me): First is kinda neutral-sounding, but sounds like its trying to be neutral sounding, but then again it sounds like something I'd say, so I might be reading too much into this, and second is prob intro-rp in retrospect, so I take back the negative lean as I type this out. 

YES! I was just trying to do an RP. My characters entire thing is 'he hates the law and LOVES breaking it' so I needed to give him literally ANY reason to be ANY kind of innocent.

11 hours ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

I think I know who two of them are.

Doc12, CoderDrag0n8

In the first cycle, he didn't post much, mostly doing vote counts, but he did cause a three-way tie, then, when it became a four-way tie, switched to put Coder out and Aeternum in. I will now do two scenarios.

1. Hoid Slayer is an Evildoer. He plans the switch to TOW to make sure that Aeternum doesn't die, a clever play that puts suspicion off Doc for 2 vote changes before the cycle switched. The conclusion to this one is that it's Doc, Aeter, and Hoid slayer. And Coder is safe.

2. Hoid Slayer is not an Evildoer. He vote switches to save me, and we read nothing more into it. Doc wouldn't have known he would've vote switched, and this clears Aeter, because we assume the Evildoers wouldn't leave it up to chance whether one of them got out cycle one. This scenario protects Coder and himself, knowing that none of the people getting out would be Evildoers. Conclusion, Aeter, Pizza, TOW (who was innocent), and myself are innocent, and Coder and Doc are Evildoers.

I think that voting Hoid slayer is probably our safest option. If he's guilty, we go from there. If he's innocent, we vote Doc.

Askthepizzaguy

Hoid Slayer

This evidence makes sense.

Hoid Slayer

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

day started 16 hours ago

Wow I really don't like 24 hour day phases with no nights, the pace is too quick for me.

[Doc12]

Current Vote Counts, 7 hours and 30 minutes before rollover:

Hoid Slayer (3): Doc, IcedoutPenguin, CoderDragon8

IcedoutPenguin (1): Hoid Slayer

It's a little concerning that no one else has really voted this cycle. And while I stand by my vote I don't know what I think about Penguin and Coder's reasonings for joining said vote.

4 minutes ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

Wow I really don't like 24 hour day phases with no nights, the pace is too quick for me.

I personally find this pace thrilling  I think Long games with the 48 hour days and 24 hour nights can feel extremely slow, especially when there's not much to discuss at night. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Javert walks to Greeblas. "Mon ami. You sat, calm and collected, even when an uncertain noose tightened around your neck. Refused to condemn a youth, even one who has acted in a way that could justify that condemnation. Refused to try and save yourself."

He falters. "I was certain. I added my voice to the throng. And while I did not vote for Worldhopper, an innocent still died. Blood on my hands."

"I used to think mercy a weakness. A failing. And then a man, a thief and a lawbreaker, who had every reason to kill me...spared me. And that tore me apart."

"How do you reconcile mercy with the law?"

Edited August 8, 2025 by Doc12

[Aeternum]

2 hours ago, Doc12 said:

EoD = End of Day, typically the last 1-2 hours before the cycle ends

W/e= whatever

 

Uhh. I have also reread this multiple times and come out confused. You start off with the assumption that that me and CD are evildoers. You then give two scenarios predicated on whether Hoid Slayer is an evildoer.

Your first scenario invalidates your original assumption that CD is evil and substitutes Aeternum as evil. 

You also assume that I was trying to save CD in both scenarios. But I put CD in the tie. You're saying I 'protected' CD by putting him on the table and taking him away?

Lastly, you conclude that even though you begin by assuming me and CD are evil, you're still going to vote for Hoid Slayer instead of either of us. If you are sure of your original assumption why didn't you cut out the middleman and just vote for me? 

This is also a lot, I don't think my analysis skills are as advanced  but I'll give my best shot. You posit two scenarios, one of which all of the final 3/4 vote tie members were village, and one where at least one of the members was evil. 

For reference, the parties involved in the tie are Pizzaguy, Penguin, CD, Aeternum, with Worldhopper being a sudden last minute switch. 

One hour before rollover, the vote seemed steady, with Pizzaguy (Hoid Slayer, Penguin) and Penguin (Booknewt, Ksauce) having 2 votes each. I didn't care for either of these options. Pizzaguy, if not village, has at least been poking everyone, challenging assumptions, and giving their reads, which I appreciate enough to want to keep around, and while I stated that Penguin's switch to Pizza was suspicious, it wasn't enough to condemn him. 

So I consciously made it a 3 way tie by voting for CD, who many have expressed suspicion of but not voted for. In hindsight, perhaps overly harsh on a new player, but I don't really take stock in sentiments like "I think this person is acting suspicious but I'm going to take pity on them for a cycle". As stated before,

I decided I was completely fine with either Penguin or CD dying because both have acted suspiciously. Both would give me some information. 

That's when things got really interesting.

1) Hoid Slayer pinged me asking me to show mercy to CD.

2) Aeternum expressed suspicion of CD, but given that he was a new player decided not to tie break but add another player to the tie - Worldhopper. This, to me, was interesting because Worldhopper had not really garnered any suspicion other than Unknown Order voting on Worldhopper for their random votes. And if Aeternum had wanted to spare CD, he could just as easily have voted for Pizza or Penguin. Adding a fourth player to the tie just made it seem like Aeternum was voting for the sake of being seen voting, so I switched my vote to Aeternum. 

3) Hoid Slayer asks Aeternum to convince him of Worldhopper's guilt, asks me to make a vote that actually matters. Aeternum speculates that if Worldhopper is Evil, i would also be because of my vote on them. 

4) An exchange I personally found very funny

And that's the cycle. 

Going back to Pizza's first scenario, where all the candidates (Pizza, Penguin, CD, possibly Aeternum) are village, I suppose there's nothing more to read from this than villagers panicking. Aeternum didn't suspect one of Pizza, Penguin, or CD enough to vote on them directly, or supposed he might as well add Worldhopper to the mix and leave it up to chance to see who dies. Hoid Slayer just trusted his read of Penguin enough that he decided to abandon his suspicion of Pizza to at least get someone else killed. It's just interesting that the priority for Hoid Slayer wasn't as much getting someone he suspected killed as much as to save one specific player he trusted. It's also interesting that this trust isn't returned as they've been arguing this cycle. 

In the second scenario, where at least one of the candidates (Pizza, Penguin, CD) were evil, the sudden additional 2 votes on another candidate makes sense. Worldhopper already had one vote from before. Aeternum (who still might be village - him saying that if Worldhopper flips Elim then I would be Elim feels genuine to me) puts Worldhopper on the table, and even though Hoid Slayer explicitly says he doesn't like Aeternum's reasoning decides to vote for Worldhopper anyway purely to save Penguin. In this scenario, Hoid Slayer and Penguin are evil together. Alternatively, there's a scenario where Penguin is innocent and Hoid Slayer evil, but Hoid Slayer wanted to save someone else in the pool, knew it would be suspicious, and named a villager as the person he was trying to save in a gambit. Who knows? 

Greeblas, how's my reasoning? 

Does it help if I point you to where I was townreading Iced and Pizza yesterday. I expressed not liking other wagon options and wasn't going to vote CD, so I voted my next highest elim suspect (TOW), who was also a wagon at the time which was nice. Me adding to the tie was due to not liking the current top wagons, and voting my elim suspects tends to be the best way to get wagons I liked more. Anyways.

I am trying very hard to understand thread right now, and getting nowhere with that. I'm not sure how any of Iced worldview makes sense to people but. yeah. Apparently I am missing out.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

7 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

Current Vote Counts, 7 hours and 30 minutes before rollover:

Hoid Slayer (3): Doc, IcedoutPenguin, CoderDragon8

IcedoutPenguin (1): Hoid Slayer

It's a little concerning that no one else has really voted this cycle. And while I stand by my vote I don't know what I think about Penguin and Coder's reasonings for joining said vote.

I personally find this pace thrilling  I think Long games with the 48 hour days and 24 hour nights can feel extremely slow, especially when there's not much to discuss at night. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Javert walks to Greeblas. "Mon ami. You sat, calm and collected, even when an uncertain noose tightened around your neck. Refused to condemn a youth, even one who has acted in a way that could justify that condemnation. Refused to try and save yourself."

He falters. "I was certain. I added my voice to the throng. And while I did not vote for Worldhopper, an innocent still died. Blood on my hands."

"I used to think mercy a weakness. A failing. And then a man, a thief and a lawbreaker, who had every reason to kill me...spared me. And that tore me apart."

"How do you reconcile mercy with the law?"

My reasoning is that I thought Iced reasoning was good, and since I know I am not an elim, I voted Hoid Slayer as the most logical option

If presented with better evidence, change my vote I may (lol yoda speak)

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

Popping in to say I can’t interact right now, but I’ll try to see if I can fit an analysis post later

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

2 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

Current Vote Counts, 7 hours and 30 minutes before rollover:

Hoid Slayer (3): Doc, IcedoutPenguin, CoderDragon8

IcedoutPenguin (1): Hoid Slayer

It's a little concerning that no one else has really voted this cycle. And while I stand by my vote I don't know what I think about Penguin and Coder's reasonings for joining said vote.

I personally find this pace thrilling  I think Long games with the 48 hour days and 24 hour nights can feel extremely slow, especially when there's not much to discuss at night. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Javert walks to Greeblas. "Mon ami. You sat, calm and collected, even when an uncertain noose tightened around your neck. Refused to condemn a youth, even one who has acted in a way that could justify that condemnation. Refused to try and save yourself."

He falters. "I was certain. I added my voice to the throng. And while I did not vote for Worldhopper, an innocent still died. Blood on my hands."

"I used to think mercy a weakness. A failing. And then a man, a thief and a lawbreaker, who had every reason to kill me...spared me. And that tore me apart."

"How do you reconcile mercy with the law?"

Long RP here.

Spoiler

To be honest, Greebas was always more of a loner. While not a law breaker, he could see that sometimes the sort of justice meted out by those who would enforce the law, would at times be unjust. 

The justice carried out is only as good as the people carrying it out, the law is only as good as the people writing it and enforcing it, and the guilt or innocence of a person is determined by people who have human failings, and aren't always correct.

The law is a wonderful, beautiful, humane idea, an optimistic vision of how we can make society into a better place, one where justice is always the outcome, and the righteous are protected, and the guilty always get what they deserve.

The human side of the law can fail that optimistic vision, Javert.

Will humans ever be so good that they can carry out the most ideal version of the law? Especially when ignorance, inexperience, emotion, impaired judgment, wrath, sentiment, bias, start to creep in?

And think on it the other way... what if the law being carried out was utterly bereft of things like mercy, or second chances, or extenuating circumstances, what if the punishment for every law being broken was always death? 

So long as laws are absolute, but people are flawed, the law is only an ideal, one we will always fall short of making into a reality.

Some part of our humanity must also be part of the law. For those who seek to make the law and make it suit only them, wield it like a gauntlet to use against their enemies. Greebas, while not a lawbreaker, also not really a big fan of the corruption and power that comes when big groups of people get together to make political might. So he tends to stay away from that, while respecting morality and the law when it comes around. Greebas always tried to be good, however neutral he was otherwise.

Nybbeth, in life, wielded the power of the law on his side. He used to enforce the laws of his people, and was given great power to do so by his kingdom. Lots of wealth, funds for his research, and plenty of condemned criminals to experiment on as he saw fit. They were all guilty, so no one cared what happened to them.

And when his power became concentrated enough, no laws could contain him. He only ever used the law as a bludgeon against those who could not fight back against him. There was no mercy in his version of the law.

Lawful, but evil, was Nybbeth. And then when the law no longer could restrain him, when the laws of nature herself no longer applied, when war came and the laws of nations no longer applied to him, in that dead zone where the only law is what you make, Nybbeth exploited that power vacuum to make only death. Under the rules of war, nothing he ever did was illegal. Under the laws of nations, nothing he ever did to the condemned was illegal.

The laws of men are merely tools. The same as the undead I rose from the grave, they would obey, and only ever obey. They always follow orders. They never think for themselves. They do not have the hearts of men, or the morality of man. No frail or corruptible mortal laws constrain them, only the ultimate law, obedience. These automatons feel nothing, desire nothing, have no bias or sentiment. You could call them the ultimate expression of the law. They always follow my commands.

You see, Javert?

The law is a wonderful idea, the idea that man can be made perfect, without flaw, and justice can be made perfect by men.

But law without morality, without judgment, without wisdom, without compassion, is no law at all.

It is only obedience, and obedience is only as good as the thing you are obeying.

Even I would admit, I did not have others' best interests at heart. I simply desired power over death and the freedom to do whatever I wanted. Even if that cost everyone else their lives and freedoms. The law was always a mere constraint, not a true obstacle to my desire to rule the world.

And everything he did was technically legal at the time, he was in a position to execute the condemned as he saw fit, then the war began and he had a steady supply of prisoners, and corpses.... and then, his army of the undead fought in that war. No laws were ever broken.

Then, when he faced the judgment of the divine, and passed beyond life, he felt the consequences of a lifetime of evil. And, through our arcane bond, so did Greebas.

An eternity of that would make anyone reconsider their position.

The gods certainly have their punishments for us, if we are wicked. The gods have a justice beyond all our imaginings, I would presume. Far be it for Greebas to question their judgment. But... if there is even a chance... that a mortal being can choose to do the right thing, for a day... and then the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and start to do good in the world, start to bring justice to the world, start to bring compassion and morality to the world, they are better off doing that than being thrown away.

I don't know of too many souls who would bother to have mercy or compassion for a correctly condemned criminal. I certainly had none in life. And I would have paid the ultimate price for that lack of compassion, if not for this mortal.

Greebas still doesn't believe you've repented, Obdilaurd.

Redemption is a big ask. Not everyone who seeks it should even be granted it. You need to be sincere.

Aye, that's correct. You know what you have to do, to walk the path. 

I'm not sure I would know how without your guidance.

Don't try to trick Greebas with your honeyed words. What you choose to do with your life, should you ever have one again, when you have the freedom to choose, will determine what sort of man you can become. Until then it is all just promises, promises.

In any case, Javert, death comes to us all. Even those of us who tried to hide from it, trick it, master it, use it against others.

The law itself is much like death. Some with the power to avoid the law, will wield their power and avoid the law. Some with the power to wield death and judgment against others, will do so for corrupt reasons. Some will try to gain absolute mastery over life and death, and some will try to be above the law, and make the law a cudgel to use against everyone else. And the law is not a sentient being, it does not decide whether that kind of law is right or wrong, or should change. We do.

And Greebas, while not a brigand or a criminal, didn't have much use for societies or their law enforcers, also didn't have much fondness for death, either. Greebas was a pacifist before the war, and then death came for the innocent people that Greebas knew who had done nothing wrong. Deep in that dark cave, Greebas wielded the power of death for the very first time, and hoped he could use it to stop the cycle of death and destruction. 

But the cycle of death and destruction continued everywhere. It changed only a small part of the world, but it was still the right thing to do, in that moment. 

In an ideal world, that optimistic version of both law and death, it applies equally to us all. We would all be subject to its power, and we would all suffer the consequences equally. But as I have shown, the law can be bent. And so can death itself.

In an ideal world there would be no death and no criminality, and no need for seekers of justice, there would simply BE justice. The mere fact of law enforcement means there is no justice but what we make, and there is no law but what we give. And however we express that law, can be good or bad. Our judgment can be right, or wrong.

And death can come to the innocent in an unjust, rushed manner, while the guilty go free.

And even live forever, unbound by any laws but the natural consequences of my own actions.

So, Greebas, admires and respects your vision of the law. The one where justice follows, naturally, from the law.

But it is not automatic, Javert. The law does nothing as a scroll on a desk. It must be a belief we all share, and it should be subject to our judgment, whenever it is wrong. And we must be subject to the law, not separate from it.

Without mercy or compassion, the law is simply an automaton, like those undead beings Nybbeth created, it only seeks to execute the orders it is given.

But, a living breathing being, with sound mind and judgment, might execute not only the laws of men, but also bring justice and compassion to those who would absolutely have been lost forever without it.

You almost sounded sincere there for a moment, Obdilaurd.

I hope to show you one day that I was being sincere just now. Not everyone gets second chances and while I might not have been the wisest or most compassionate man in life, I was never stupid. I understand how the world works, and that if not for you, I never would have been given that second chance.

And how rare and precious that mercy truly is. No one who followed my orders in life had... whatever it is that motivates you, Greebas.

Hmph.

Yes they did. You can't let them off the hook that easily. They just didn't listen to it when it mattered.

 

In any case, high minded ideals are great and all, but even the noblest mortals don't have all the answers. Greebas doesn't seek to demonstrate that he is better than anyone else, that isn't the point- Greebas only seeks to give you that pause, that moment, before you condemn someone, or judge, or execute them, that you think for but a moment, what it means if you are wrong.

That moment of pause and reflection and self doubt is what makes us living human beings of any value, and better than the undead creatures who never think before killing.

@Doc12

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

So, Greebas has been thinking about Var, the shorter fellow who hasn't said anything yet, or arrived.

I sense his presence but not his consciousness.

Apparently, a problem for us should he be of the criminal variety. Because his continued freedom allows him to attack us at will, when we sleep for the night, and he can escape justice simply because we ignored him.

However, there is also no evidence he is guilty.

It poses a philosophical question- can we, should we, condemn a man, however small his stature, simply for not being present. And do we inherit the risk of leaving him alive if he were out to get us all?

That is a hard question that Greebas proposes to you all:

Because Greebas himself doesn't know the right answer there. He could merely be a distraction from fighting those who killed Seth. And killing an innocent however inactive and short man solves nothing.

The question is whether you are brave enough to take the risk on leaving Var uncondemned.

Whether you can extend your compassion to him. When that might be a sucker's bet.

What should we do with him?

I would have exterminated him for being useless to me, and a possible threat.

...and is that the wise path, ladies, gentlemen, theydies and gentlethems?

 

edit- I absolutely got a notification someone posted, sorry for the doublepost.

Edited August 8, 2025 by Askthepizzaguy
clarification

[Aeternum]

There's an inactivity filter. I'm not too concerned.

I'm not sure that a zero poster is worth voting because we'll just be in this same situation tomorrow, especially on a town flip (on a social level, at least, since obviously an elim flip would be a good thing). I'd rather vote someone that gives more info overall on a miss, and still has a good chance to flip elim. Zero poster flipping town is extremely unhelpful and not great, and we are down two PRs (the fancy roles with abilities) already.

Not that I have any idea who I'd like to vote rn, but voting a zero poster makes the game feel doomed lol.

As a sort of general question to everyone, what's your opinion on Hoid Slayer and the wagon there? Also someone needs to explain to me what on earth Iced was talking about please ty.

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

3 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

There's an inactivity filter. I'm not too concerned.

I'm not sure that a zero poster is worth voting because we'll just be in this same situation tomorrow, especially on a town flip (on a social level, at least, since obviously an elim flip would be a good thing). I'd rather vote someone that gives more info overall on a miss, and still has a good chance to flip elim. Zero poster flipping town is extremely unhelpful and not great, and we are down two PRs (the fancy roles with abilities) already.

Not that I have any idea who I'd like to vote rn, but voting a zero poster makes the game feel doomed lol.

As a sort of general question to everyone, what's your opinion on Hoid Slayer and the wagon there? Also someone needs to explain to me what on earth Iced was talking about please ty.

Hoid's attitude toward me is strange when I know I am town and I just said I would probably need to burn him today and then he makes a big wall post where he puts me as town.

Note, this is part of what is getting him killed, is he's not voting for me again, and the person he voted to save specifically yesterday is voting to kill him.

That's an unusual wolf behavior from my chair. 

This means absolutely nothing to anyone but me unless you've marked my name down as town.

Doesn't feel like a hit.

[Aeternum]

Currently feel like voting CD still.

Noted on Hoid Slayer. I don't really think the wagon is pure rn.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

18 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

There's an inactivity filter. I'm not too concerned.

I'm not sure that a zero poster is worth voting because we'll just be in this same situation tomorrow, especially on a town flip (on a social level, at least, since obviously an elim flip would be a good thing). I'd rather vote someone that gives more info overall on a miss, and still has a good chance to flip elim. Zero poster flipping town is extremely unhelpful and not great, and we are down two PRs (the fancy roles with abilities) already.

Not that I have any idea who I'd like to vote rn, but voting a zero poster makes the game feel doomed lol.

As a sort of general question to everyone, what's your opinion on Hoid Slayer and the wagon there? Also someone needs to explain to me what on earth Iced was talking about please ty.

Well Iced analysed the ThatOneWorldhopper vote by Hoid Slayer, and gave 2 scenerios.

The first was a Hoid Elim 

and the second was the Hoid Innocent, and also had me be an elim (which i'm not)

so I voted Hoid Slayer.

2 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

Currently feel like voting CD still.

Noted on Hoid Slayer. I don't really think the wagon is pure rn.

You know what?

This SE has been a great learning experience on what not to do in the first day

so. I'm not an elim, but its not like ur gonna believe me when I say that so, do whatever you want.

[Aeternum]

4 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Well Iced analysed the ThatOneWorldhopper vote by Hoid Slayer, and gave 2 scenerios.

The first was a Hoid Elim 

and the second was the Hoid Innocent, and also had me be an elim (which i'm not)

so I voted Hoid Slayer.

Cool.

Now explain why Iced's worldview there a) makes any sense in the first place, and b) is correct and worth following.

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

CD, I know that sounds hostile and or adversarial, but my advice is to distance yourself from it personally.

Just walk Aeternum through your logic, in a calm, detailed manner.

If your point of view comes from an innocent telling the truth, you just explaining it fully helps everyone get there.

I know a lot of players, even experienced ones, get put off or feel defensive or under attack when theyre asked questions like that.

Don't think of it that way. I been playin' 17 years. This is your opportunity to take the witness stand and absolutely nail your testimony and show your perspective.

You actually want other townies to react to you in this way, and ask you questions.

That's how they find you if you're innocent. Don't be shy, make a whole wall explaining your POV.

Knock it out of the park.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

I still don't like CD's analysis or reads, though I will only vote for you if you don't prove yourself innocent. @CoderDrag0n8

[Doc12]

45 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

As a sort of general question to everyone, what's your opinion on Hoid Slayer and the wagon there? Also someone needs to explain to me what on earth Iced was talking about please ty.

It's been a quiet cycle. I'm worried that there's not been much defense of Hoid Slayer by anyone. It feels like last game, where Aeoryi, a villager, soothed her own vote on a tie situation, and then for the next cycle everyone focused on the wrong person while the elims sat back.

Honestly, I tried to parse what IcedoutPenguin was saying in their post and came out confused - as I said, they started out with one assumption, invalidated said assumption in one of their scnearios, and then ended up voting for a third party not related to any of their original assumed suspects. That confuses me. And it confuses me that Ksauce, CD, and Twinstorm apparently do understand the reasoning. I honestly don't feel good voting for Hoid Slayer in this situation. 

Recapping my current reads for clarity and reflection

Current Reads, positive to negative.

Also, Greeblas, Javert respects that you assume everyone starts out innocent until proven otherwise. But as a former lawman, Javert assumes guilt first and makes people prove their innocence or helpfulness. 

Pizzaguy/Greebas - Strongest town read so far. If they're elim, they're really shooting their team in the foot by trying to encourage discussion. Who are you voting for this cycle? 

@Aeternum: Been a lot more active this cycle. I might be stupid for this but I'm honestly leaning him village for now. His post about me being elim if Worldhopper was elim. His helpfulness this cycle. Who are you voting for this cycle?

@TwinStorm: Pretty active last cycle poking people. Posted once this cycle being skeptical of IcedPenguin's post. Net neutral. EDIT: Voted for CD which makes him more interesting

@KelsierApologist/Mehlarin: Seemed pro-discussion cycle 1. Has not posted this cycle. We miss you!

CoderDrag0n8: Seemed to be voting for the sake of voting. They're new. I get that. But I'd vote for them again just to see what happens. 

Hoid Slayer/Wishikk Makar: We all agree that that last minute jump was extremely weird. I'm still inclined to keep voting on you just to see how you flip, but as I said, I'm uneasy. Confused villager or panicked elim?

IcedoutPenguin: Confusion. I was suspicious early last cycle, but right now they just seem to be extremely confused. They were also surprised at the 2 kills, which could be an act, but genuinely seemed to not understand the rules. I am honestly leaning Village, just confused and lashing out. 

@KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren: Couple of posts. last post was saying Iced's post made some sense but still refraining from a solid conclusion. Honestly leaning negative until they convince me otherwise. Can we get a vote from you?

@Booknewt: New, a couple of posts. Made a post with reads on players, mostly reading everyone neutral. 50/50 shot here. Do you think you could update your reads list based on happenings this cycle?  

@StrikerEZ you coming? I'm honestly not concerned about Striker right now. As Aeternum says, there's an inactivity filter, and I think shooting someone who isn't contributing hurts us more if they're village as it just doesn't give us any new information. They have up to the end of this cycle to post before they get replaced. 

-----------

Hoid Slayer CoderDrag0n8 Let's debate this people! 

Edited August 8, 2025 by Doc12

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

3 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

Pizzaguy/Greebas - Strongest town read so far. If they're elim, they're really shooting their team in the foot by trying to encourage discussion. Who are you voting for this cycle? 

I will choose a person I feel is strongest likelihood of being town combined with the target of their vote being the strongest likelihood of being a hit.

It may be my only vote I place this game for obvious reasons. I would like it to be a hit, so, I will try.

 

Unlike last cycle, I am very very tired, and not able to be fully present, so I am not keeping up with the vote tally, may I have assistance with that?

Edited August 8, 2025 by Askthepizzaguy
added comment

[Doc12]

Hoid Slayer (2): IcedoutPenguin, CoderDragon8

CoderDrag0n8 (2): Twinstorm, Doc

IcedoutPenguin (1): Hoid Slayer

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

Hey doc, you are sort of the de facto town leader if I die. Is it okay if I just empty my thoughts at you right now in preparation of my own death?

[TwinStorm He/Him]

Alright, read time

Pizzaguy/Greebas, I'm leaning town read rn since no elim would nearly as active/promoting as much discussion, tho as a vet of mafia, he's worth keeping an eye on.

Doc12 is another v/lean as he is actively encouraging discussion and posting vote counts, when elims want fog of war and mass confusion and chaos.

Aeternum is honestly a neutral for me, slight v/lean but haven't looked enough into his posts to make anything beyond a gut feeling.

KSauce is fairly neutral, not standing out in any particular way, which could be an undercover elim, or just a moderate villager. No real leaning.

Polly has disappeared, which is unfortunate, as I enjoy playing with her. Come back soon, Polly. Village rn, but need to see more from her.

Striker come to us please, buddy. Every villager counts.

Hoid Slayer is looking like an elim rn, for his weird vote changing things up rn, but for the sake of info/discussion I'm keeping my vote on Coder.

IcedOutPenguin is giving me a neutral/elim lean, with me not liking some of his reads/posts. Again, I need to do more analysis of his posts.

Coder is honestly coming out as a TWTBW to me, but I really don't know, and for safety purposes/sake of discussion I'll keep my vote on you.

Booknewt is giving me village appeal, with some solid early reads and votes.

Other people/people I forgot: Neutral, leaning elim. Sorry folks, just can't trust nobody till they prove themselves to me.

Just now, Askthepizzaguy said:

Hey doc, you are sort of the de facto town leader if I die. Is it okay if I just empty my thoughts at you right now in preparation of my own death?

You really think you're going to die?

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

1 minute ago, TwinStorm said:

You really think you're going to die?

It's one of 3 likely choices.

Wolves can be looking for a PR or they can just silence widely townread man, or they can hit other town leader man.

If they don't know who PR is, I'm probably the single best shot.

[Doc12]

9 minutes ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

Hey doc, you are sort of the de facto town leader if I die. Is it okay if I just empty my thoughts at you right now in preparation of my own death?

I don't want you to die  I want to discuss morality with you more

But yeah shoot. I try to live each cycle as if it's my last and post thoughts before the end anyway.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

Just now, Askthepizzaguy said:

It's one of 3 likely choices.

Wolves can be looking for a PR or they can just silence widely townread man, or they can hit other town leader man.

If they don't know who PR is, I'm probably the single best shot.

Mass confusion is also an option, tho all that makes sense.

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

Mass confusion is already here, if the wolves aren't dead on obvious. So it's not needed in many of the possible worlds.

 

[Doc12]

2 minutes ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

It's one of 3 likely choices.

Wolves can be looking for a PR or they can just silence widely townread man, or they can hit other town leader man.

If they don't know who PR is, I'm probably the single best shot.

Hey they could try and kill me since you just called me de-facto town leader, you're not that special  

Do kind of agree with CD being TWTBW (Too weak to be worthwhile, for anyone else who had to look that up) I am just curious if there was any other reason we shouldn't exe them or just leave it a tie again with Hoid slayer/CD