Roshar’s moons

[Impact he/him]

The three moons of Roshar have always been associated with the three shards, but what if we have all been  reading it wrong?

 

What if instead of representing Honor, Cultivation and Odium, the three moons represented the Wind, the Stones, and the nNight? That still doesn’t entirely explain the fourth moon, but with the way the system was set up before the shattering, to me it kind of makes sense.

[Riino He/Him]

7 hours ago, Impact said:

The three moons of Roshar have always been associated with the three shards, but what if we have all been  reading it wrong?

 

What if instead of representing Honor, Cultivation and Odium, the three moons represented the Wind, the Stones, and the nNight? That still doesn’t entirely explain the fourth moon, but with the way the system was set up before the shattering, to me it kind of makes sense.

That is a very interesting theory, I believe it was brought up in a Shardcast Podcast (can't check rn, but it was this one (

) or this one (

)) I didn't listen to the full podcast but they did go quite in-depth into these theories. 

I hope this helps.

[Jult]

20 hours ago, Impact said:

The three moons of Roshar have always been associated with the three shards, but what if we have all been  reading it wrong?

 

What if instead of representing Honor, Cultivation and Odium, the three moons represented the Wind, the Stones, and the nNight? That still doesn’t entirely explain the fourth moon, but with the way the system was set up before the shattering, to me it kind of makes sense.

I proposed something similar a few months back (though I'm sure I wasn't the first). I suggested the existence of a 4th Primeval Spren like Wind, Stone, and Night may have existed in the past and is now in a "deadeye-esque" state. That topic is on the full Cosmere spoiler board, and we do reference some non-Stormlight stuff:

The leading 3 theories that I've seen are that the 4th moon represents either a 4th Spren, a 4th Shard (specifically Valor comes up a lot), or Adonalsium himself.

[Impact he/him]

On 7/30/2025 at 9:43 AM, Jult said:

I proposed something similar a few months back 

Oh! I had no idea! Thanks for linking!

 

@Riino the mysteries episode is what led me to have this theory, but they never directly address dispersion of it. They still talked about the shards in relation to the moon, not the old gods.

Edited July 31, 2025 by Impact
Added reply

[coolsnow7]

On 7/29/2025 at 12:44 PM, Impact said:

The three moons of Roshar have always been associated with the three shards, but what if we have all been  reading it wrong?

 

What if instead of representing Honor, Cultivation and Odium, the three moons represented the Wind, the Stones, and the nNight? That still doesn’t entirely explain the fourth moon, but with the way the system was set up before the shattering, to me it kind of makes sense.

I think this is correct. It’s a bit ridiculous for a 4th Shard to be hanging around Roshar. By contrast, a 4th Superspren would have preceded the Shards’ entry to the system, which is why they wouldn’t be aware of it.

[Jult]

On 7/31/2025 at 3:52 PM, coolsnow7 said:

I think this is correct. It’s a bit ridiculous for a 4th Shard to be hanging around Roshar. By contrast, a 4th Superspren would have preceded the Shards’ entry to the system, which is why they wouldn’t be aware of it.

Exactly! Plus, the moons themselves precede the Shards. It makes more sense to say that the moons and superspren were created together. And that the Shards aren't related since they didn't even exist when Adonalsium created Roshar.

I will admit that there are WoBs and even this excerpt from the Cosmere RPG that tie the coloring of the moons to the Shards:

Spoiler

Quote

"The moons’ colors echo the Shards of Odium, Honor, and Cultivation:

Salas, the dimmest moon, always rises first. It’s violet, a color associated with Odium.

Nomon, the largest moon, always rises second. It’s pale blue, a color associated with Honor.

Mishim, the smallest moon, always rises last. It’s green, a color associated with Cultivation."

But those colors seem to come from Stormlight, Lifelight, and Voidlight more so than the Shards themselves. And we know that the lights are intrinsically linked to 3 of the 4 rhythms of Roshar; which also predate the Shards arrival to the system.

It's what I pitched in the topic I linked earlier. Four rhythms and four moons should mean four lights and four ancient spren (and four Bondsmiths by extension). Because Adonalsium originally designed Roshar and he is associated with the number four (four Dawnshards and four aspects).

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

2 hours ago, Jult said:

Exactly! Plus, the moons themselves precede the Shards. It makes more sense to say that the moons and superspren were created together. And that the Shards aren't related since they didn't even exist when Adonalsium created Roshar.

I will admit that there are WoBs and even this excerpt from the Cosmere RPG that tie the coloring of the moons to the Shards:

  Hide contents

 

But those colors seem to come from Stormlight, Lifelight, and Voidlight more so than the Shards themselves. And we know that the lights are intrinsically linked to 3 of the 4 rhythms of Roshar; which also predate the Shards arrival to the system.

It's what I pitched in the topic I linked earlier. Four rhythms and four moons should mean four lights and four ancient spren (and four Bondsmiths by extension). Because Adonalsium originally designed Roshar and he is associated with the number four (four Dawnshards and four aspects).

Does that mean that before honor and cultivation's children, the stone, night, and storm were able to be bonded by bondsmiths? I mostly agree with your theory, and I think that the colors of the moons could have just changed with the new shards in the system. heck, maybe it was adonalsiums moon and the well that is odium's now was originally adonalsiums. Also, if it was a fourth spren's moon, what was the whole hiding those people (Who I also believe were the sleepless under the ground)

Sorry if that was a bit of a yapfest

[Jult]

17 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

Does that mean that before honor and cultivation's children, the stone, night, and storm were able to be bonded by bondsmiths?

IMO yes. WaT Quote:

Spoiler

Quote

"When were you created, Sibling?" Jasnah asked.

"Some six thousand years ago, when the Stones wanted a legacy in the form of a child of Honor and Cultivation. Back when Bondsmith bonded not to spren, but to ancient forces, left by gods."

I believe this refers to Wind, Stone, and Night. Though it's a bit open to interpretation.

[Teravangian]

On 7/29/2025 at 11:44 AM, Impact said:

The three moons of Roshar have always been associated with the three shards, but what if we have all been  reading it wrong?

 

What if instead of representing Honor, Cultivation and Odium, the three moons represented the Wind, the Stones, and the nNight? That still doesn’t entirely explain the fourth moon, but with the way the system was set up before the shattering, to me it kind of makes sense.

No, take for example this fact, Ashyn is a planet, and one of the moons. Ashyn did not have the same investiture forms as Roshar. Braize likewise has its own investiture forms. They then, as different planets, with different invested systems, would not follow the investiture system of Roshar.

[Nitpicking]

On 8/16/2025 at 8:10 AM, Teravangian said:

No, take for example this fact, Ashyn is a planet, and one of the moons. Ashyn did not have the same investiture forms as Roshar. Braize likewise has its own investiture forms. They then, as different planets, with different invested systems, would not follow the investiture system of Roshar.

Planets are not the same thing as moons. Ashyn is not a moon.

[Teravangian]

On 8/19/2025 at 11:09 PM, Nitpicking said:

Planets are not the same thing as moons. Ashyn is not a moon.

I think it's called a moon, but regardless, Braize definitely is. I'm pretty sure that's part of the world. The other planets are called moons.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

39 minutes ago, Teravangian said:

I think it's called a moon, but regardless, Braize definitely is. I'm pretty sure that's part of the world. The other planets are called moons.

Roshar has three moons, blue red and green, but those aren't Braize or Ashyn. Braize and Ashyn are separate planets in the Rosharan solar system. 

[Treamayne]

 

4 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

6 hours ago, Teravangian said:

I think it's called a moon, but regardless, Braize definitely is. I'm pretty sure that's part of the world. The other planets are called moons.

Roshar has three moons, blue red and green, but those aren't Braize or Ashyn. Braize and Ashyn are separate planets in the Rosharan solar system. 

^This^

Please see Arcanum Unbounded:

Spoiler

The first and smallest moon is violet Salas. The middle moon is Nomon, which is a bright, pale blue. The final moon is Mishim, which is smaller than Nomon and green.

Hope that helps

[Ripheus23]

Maybe the very reason the fourth moon was lost was because it didn't correspond to a Shard or a spren or a force?

[Impact he/him]

On 8/26/2025 at 6:15 PM, Ripheus23 said:

Maybe the very reason the fourth moon was lost was because it didn't correspond to a Shard or a spren or a force?

Or it's spren/god *left*

[Ripheus23]

4 hours ago, Impact said:

Or it's spren/god *left*

One of my favorite scenes in all the Cosmere books is when Leras does his dying semaphore for Elend, taking the uneasy buildup towards the attack on Yomen and inverting the whole affair. I think sometimes the rational outcome of the mysterious/unsettled premises we're given is that our current information is both more and less important, in curious ways, than what we expect. So I wonder if the puzzle of the fourth Rosharan moon is like a half-red herring?

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

Idea: the Wind said (idk where) that once, the storm could have been pled with. what if the fourth Spren was the Storm?

[ign__o male, 24]

On 8/4/2025 at 7:54 AM, Jult said:

Exactly! Plus, the moons themselves precede the Shards. It makes more sense to say that the moons and superspren were created together. And that the Shards aren't related since they didn't even exist when Adonalsium created Roshar.

I will admit that there are WoBs and even this excerpt from the Cosmere RPG that tie the coloring of the moons to the Shards:

  Hide contents

 

But those colors seem to come from Stormlight, Lifelight, and Voidlight more so than the Shards themselves. And we know that the lights are intrinsically linked to 3 of the 4 rhythms of Roshar; which also predate the Shards arrival to the system.

It's what I pitched in the topic I linked earlier. Four rhythms and four moons should mean four lights and four ancient spren (and four Bondsmiths by extension). Because Adonalsium originally designed Roshar and he is associated with the number four (four Dawnshards and four aspects).

Oh shoot, where is that quote from? I always assumed Salas was associated with the Sibling, as a child of Honor and Cultivation. I started to have second guesses when the fourth moon was mentioned near the end of WaT, but I wasn’t sure exactly what to make of it. It also seems to somehow have been related to Odium’s perpendicularity (and now potentially Retribution’s).

[Treamayne]

47 minutes ago, ign__o said:

Oh shoot, where is that quote from?

He mentioned the source in his post: 

On 8/4/2025 at 9:54 AM, Jult said:

this excerpt from the Cosmere RPG

As far as the quoted section is concerned, we do not know if the moon's appearance(s) changed withthe arrival of the Shards or not - or, if even the "fourth moon" isn't such a thing, and it was one much larger celestioal body that split at the Shattering - becoming three smaller moons and the fragments in the Plains. 

It's all set-up for the back half and I doubt we will get more data until then - a teaser to fuel 5 years of theories before any chance of confirmation or denial.

Stormlight RPG forums are located:

Quote

Brandon Games

• Stonewalkers

Discuss Brandon-related tabletop games, such as the Cosmere RPG, here. This board contains cosmere spoilers.

Hope that helps

[Jult]

15 hours ago, ign__o said:

Oh shoot, where is that quote from? I always assumed Salas was associated with the Sibling, as a child of Honor and Cultivation. I started to have second guesses when the fourth moon was mentioned near the end of WaT, but I wasn’t sure exactly what to make of it. It also seems to somehow have been related to Odium’s perpendicularity (and now potentially Retribution’s).

As Treamayne already said, it's from the Cosmere RPG - specifically the Stormlight World Guide. I plug RPG information into Topics a lot because I'm a big fan of it and I know a lot of readers don't plan to play so they may not see the info otherwise.

14 hours ago, Treamayne said:

As far as the quoted section is concerned, we do not know if the moon's appearance(s) changed withthe arrival of the Shards or not - or, if even the "fourth moon" isn't such a thing, and it was one much larger celestioal body that split at the Shattering - becoming three smaller moons and the fragments in the Plains. 

I strongly agree with this. I am primarily speculating and theorizing. Odds are I'm wrong and Brandon has something different up his sleeve.

14 hours ago, Treamayne said:

It's all set-up for the back half and I doubt we will get more data until then - a teaser to fuel 5 years of theories before any chance of confirmation or denial.

I'm really hoping we get at least a little more data. Maybe from some WoBs or the Horneater novella (if that ever comes out).

One thing that ign__o's comment reminded me of (I couldn't tell you why - I guess because they mentioned children and moons in the same post) is the story Wit tells in Oathbringer about the 3 moons. The one where the Natan Queen Tsa tricks Mishim into trading places so she can have Nomon's child. I have absolutely no idea how that could be connected to the 4th moon. But it is an interesting coincidence that:

A. The Natan people's myths connect them to the child of a moon.

B. The 4th moon was buried under Natanatan.

I truly don't have anything more interesting to say about that, but does anyone else see a stronger link there than I do?

[ign__o male, 24]

On 8/4/2025 at 7:54 AM, Jult said:

Exactly! Plus, the moons themselves precede the Shards. It makes more sense to say that the moons and superspren were created together. And that the Shards aren't related since they didn't even exist when Adonalsium created Roshar.

I will admit that there are WoBs and even this excerpt from the Cosmere RPG that tie the coloring of the moons to the Shards:

  Hide contents

 

But those colors seem to come from Stormlight, Lifelight, and Voidlight more so than the Shards themselves. And we know that the lights are intrinsically linked to 3 of the 4 rhythms of Roshar; which also predate the Shards arrival to the system.

It's what I pitched in the topic I linked earlier. Four rhythms and four moons should mean four lights and four ancient spren (and four Bondsmiths by extension). Because Adonalsium originally designed Roshar and he is associated with the number four (four Dawnshards and four aspects).

To follow up on this, what are the four Rhythms of Roshar? And the fourth moon is related to Shard (which seems dubious, potentially?) what would the connection with Valor be? As far as I know it’s never appeared or had influence in the Rosharan system.

[Jult]

4 hours ago, ign__o said:

To follow up on this, what are the four Rhythms of Roshar? And the fourth moon is related to Shard (which seems dubious, potentially?) what would the connection with Valor be? As far as I know it’s never appeared or had influence in the Rosharan system.

I meant the four pure tones - not rhythms. My bad. Venli hears them in WaT:

Spoiler

Quote

Chasmfiends could sing.

Each of the beasts rose on an array of feet, turning a thick neck skyward and releasing a quartet of harmonizing notes, for they could call with multiple voices at once. Venli had been warned, but still she thought it remarkable, as she found something familiar in the notes. They vibrated within her, deep down to her gemheart. There were tones to the planet, separate from the rhythms her people heard. Perhaps these were the tones of the gods. But if that was the case, why four?

-WaT Chapter 60

The argument given for Valor are that Taravangian can't see Valor when he looks to the skies in WaT I-4:

Spoiler

Quote

He instead was most curious about the fact that two of the Shards appeared to be missing, completely vanished from interacting with the others. Hidden. One he understood with some effort. But Valor - where had Valor gone, and how did she hide from even his eyes?

So, the idea is, if there is a 4th Shard on Roshar, it must be Valor since they are the only Shard that Taravangian could not see. Also, Wit says dragons are "tricky lizards who hide where you least expect them" in WaT Chapter 21. Valor's original Vessel was the dragon, Medelantorius (although I'd point out that we don't know if Medelantorius is still Valor and there are WoBs that suggest she may not be). There are additional bits of evidence too, but those are the big ones.

It's not a horrible theory. I'm just a bigger fan of the 4th godspren idea. Although, I suppose both could be true. One being true wouldn't disprove the other.

[ign__o male, 24]

Ohh I see. Is the fourth Shard theory in direct conflict with/opposition to the fourth primeval spren theory? I like the idea of a Day or potentially Sea primeval spren, but I think there might be some issues with the idea of a Day spren. Namely, once the Stormfather dies, highstorms on Roshar stop happening. Being so related to Wind, if that’s what happens in the absence of the Stormfather, it would seem like if a straight-up primeval spren died (or whatever else might have happened to it), it would have a pretty noticeable effect on Roshar as well, right? There’s still a day/night cycle on Roshar, so it would seem to imply that, if there were a Day spren, it would still be alive/intact. I think a similar argument could also be made for a Sea spren, though we admittedly don’t seem to know much about Roshar’s oceans. I feel like there could plausibly be something really funky going on that would suggest something wrong with a potential Sea primeval spren if we knew about it.

Also, I’m curious what the other “vanished” Shard is that Taravangian can’t immediately see... although maybe this will become obvious as I read more Cosmere books.

[Jult]

8 hours ago, ign__o said:

Is the fourth Shard theory in direct conflict with/opposition to the fourth primeval spren theory?

Technically no. They could both be true. It could even be the case that Valor forms a relationship with the 4th Spren that is similar to Honor & Wind or Cultivation & Night.

They could also both be completely wrong. As Treamayne said, there may not have even been four moons at once. There may have been one original moon that shattered and then three new ones that appeared later in response to the arrivals of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. That's another popular idea.

8 hours ago, ign__o said:

I like the idea of a Day or potentially Sea primeval spren, but I think there might be some issues with the idea of a Day spren. Namely, once the Stormfather dies, highstorms on Roshar stop happening. Being so related to Wind, if that’s what happens in the absence of the Stormfather, it would seem like if a straight-up primeval spren died (or whatever else might have happened to it), it would have a pretty noticeable effect on Roshar as well, right? There’s still a day/night cycle on Roshar, so it would seem to imply that, if there were a Day spren, it would still be alive/intact. I think a similar argument could also be made for a Sea spren, though we admittedly don’t seem to know much about Roshar’s oceans. I feel like there could plausibly be something really funky going on that would suggest something wrong with a potential Sea primeval spren if we knew about it.

It's hard to say if that would happen with all primeval spren. But it's an interesting point. I can't think of any funky impacts to the day/night cycle (I mean obviously there's an endless night post-WaT, but nothing seemed funky for the thousands of years between the 4th moon falling and WaT). There are some funky water things worth noting. Like the Weeping or the Great Abyss. Also, the Origin is somewhere out on the seas.

8 hours ago, ign__o said:

Also, I’m curious what the other “vanished” Shard is that Taravangian can’t immediately see... although maybe this will become obvious as I read more Cosmere books.

The other Shard is most likely Reason. Tanavast mentions that he disappeared in WaT Chapter 115:

Spoiler

Quote

WE COULD SENSE EACH OTHER. ALL EXCEPT A FEW - LIKE EURIDRIUS, HOLDER OF REASON - WHO HAD VANISHED.

[ign__o male, 24]

Oh right I had forgotten about that. I wonder what happened to him...