Gaiden9 Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 Can someone explain vashers relevance in wind and truth? I've read war breaker but I'm at an age that if I read the book over a year ago I've forgotten it. It took me several storm light books before I realized world hopping was a thing. I read wind and truth with the copper mind on speed dial on my phone. With the vasher interlude I couldn't help but think I was missing the relevance. When trying to answer my own question I started to remember they are "returned" but it seemed like he was on braize...how is being a returned different than a herald?
Entr0pic He/him Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 1 hour ago, Gaiden9 said: When trying to answer my own question I started to remember they are "returned" but it seemed like he was on braize...how is being a returned different than a herald? There are a few main differences between a herald and a return.for one, there can only be a certain numeric of heralds at one time (i believe it was 1,4, and 10 that can exist as once). Second, returned don’t get an honorblade, and heralds don’t get a divine breath or an equivalent splinter. Also, returned are far less invested than a herald. And heralds don’t need to consume investiture to sustain themselves. Realmaticly speaking, returned are cognitive shadows stapled to a body via their divine breath, which is a splinter of endowment, while heralds are cognitive shadows whose bodies are synthesized by the oathpack out of honor’s investiture.
AsherCrane Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 (edited) This is The Stormlight-only WaT board. This should be in the cosmere one, no? If returned are being discussed and such, I mean. Edited March 12, 2025 by AsherCrane 1
Ashbringer he/him Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 Vasher’s been around in previous Stormlight books as Zahel, and obviously Nightblood is very relevant to the events of RoW and WaT. As for the specific relevance of Vasher’s interlude… not too much, I suppose. Final in-book confirmation that those two are one and the same, and what he was up to in RoW (getting tortured for his Breaths), which was a fairly longtime question. Also seeing Axindweth, which let certain things come about (the Ghostbloods having a full Feruchemist in the age of Era 2 Mistborn is certainly interesting). Vasher’s also presumably trapped in the Urithiru Dome, which is also interesting for later. 1
alder24 Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 11 hours ago, Gaiden9 said: Can someone explain vashers relevance in wind and truth? I've read war breaker but I'm at an age that if I read the book over a year ago I've forgotten it. It took me several storm light books before I realized world hopping was a thing. I read wind and truth with the copper mind on speed dial on my phone. With the vasher interlude I couldn't help but think I was missing the relevance. When trying to answer my own question I started to remember they are "returned" but it seemed like he was on braize...how is being a returned different than a herald? Returned and Heralds are kind of the same thing, but their purpose is different. While they are both Cognitive Shadows (people who died but were reborn), Heralds are a very specific kind of them, created by Honor and boosted by his power and Honorblades to fight in Desolations and seal Voidbringers on Braize. Returned don't do that. They are Nalthians who died, but were revived by the Shard of Endowment, who gifted them a Divine Breath, making them Returned. They were returned by Endowment with some goal in mind, thus they experience prophetic dreams (like Lightsong who dreamed about incoming new Manywar and the death of the God-King, as he was sent to prevent that from happening). Returned, unlike Heralds or Fused, are a weak type of Cognitive Shadows and therefore require investiture to feed their Divine Breath with, otherwise it would consume itself, killing them - Heralds are much more invested and they don't need to feed on investiture just to be alive. Also, because Returned are so weak compared to Heralds or Fused, they can die if you just kill their body - they won't resurrect. Vasher/Zahel has lived for more than 300 years. He's a scholar and an Awakener and one of the creators of Nightblood. Early on, he visited Roshar and got inspired by Shardblades, which prompted him to create his own version of it - Nightblood was the effect of it, not exactly the thing he had in mind (which is an understatement). After the events of the Warbreaker and its unreleased sequel, he left Nalthis and arrived at Roshar, mainly because on Roshar he can sustain himself with Stormlight without the need of consuming Breaths each week (Breaths are investiture which is a part of Nalthians soul, taking it away from them makes them Drabs and being a Drab makes one prone to illness, depression and some other unpleasant things - Vasher doesn't like doing this to people just so he can live). He also brought Nightblood with him, but they had some kind of argument and they separated. Zahel became an ardent swordmaster and taught Adolin how to fight, in WoR he was also teaching Renarin and Kaladin. While he was hiding as ardent, Azure/Vivenna was hunting him for some unknown crime he'd committed, heavily related to Nightblood as well (we met her in OB, Highmarshal Azure of the Wall Guard in Kholinar). From the WaT Prologue we've learned that Vasher was the very first person who discovered anti-light for Gavilor, so he knows in and outs of investiture and is capable of creating anti-light, which is of huge significance to the future of SA and Cosmere. His relevance in WaT is more of a set up for the future books. He will begin training with Lift, so we can expect that in the 6th book Lift will be a trained Surgebinder and a fighter and maybe she will stop being so clumsy. If you got that from his appearance in WaT, you got all that's important. 4
Gaiden9 Posted March 12, 2025 Author Posted March 12, 2025 This is great. Even with these comments I've realized even doing some digging I'm still missing things. I missed that vasher was zahel. I read this in the copper mind wiki but I wasn't making the connection. This generates further questions but I'll try to do the legwork! I stared with the 3 mistborn books and had no idea of the cosmere. I then started the storm light books and read elantris and war breaker while waiting on releases. Somewhere in the storm light series, I think it was late WoR, I realized these books didn't just take place in the same universe but the characters show up in different books under different names. Now I'm trying to back track and it's blowing my mind. 4
AlmightyGir Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 From my understanding, when or shortly before becoming a Returned, Endowment asks them if they want to become one in order to change a potential future event (they're given a vision). Vasher has been around for so long, and done so many things, that my question about him is: What the hell did he see?! 1
Gaiden9 Posted March 12, 2025 Author Posted March 12, 2025 12 hours ago, AsherCrane said: This is The Stormlight-only WaT board. This should be in the cosmere one, no? If returned are being discussed and such, I mean. I'm speaking to a specific chapter in WaT and referencing characters in WaT. This would be big spoilers if posted in other areas. I do ask about returned but only in reference to heralds, again stormlight topic. If it needs to be moved no big deal
Treamayne Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gaiden9 said: This is great. Even with these comments I've realized even doing some digging I'm still missing things. I missed that vasher was zahel. I read this in the copper mind wiki but I wasn't making the connection. This generates further questions but I'll try to do the legwork! I stared with the 3 mistborn books and had no idea of the cosmere. I then started the storm light books and read elantris and war breaker while waiting on releases. Somewhere in the storm light series, I think it was late WoR, I realized these books didn't just take place in the same universe but the characters show up in different books under different names. Now I'm trying to back track and it's blowing my mind. You may be interested the Cosmere 101 thread and this Github tool, by the Shard's own Paleo and Jofwu. The tool has selectable options for what books to display, levels of connection (significant, easter egg, etc. - Screenshot example below w/ SA and Elantris WoK Easter Egg shown) Spoiler 1 hour ago, AlmightyGir said: What the hell did he see?! We don't know - but we do have this WoB: Spoiler Vetterlinj Has Vasher accomplished what he Returned to do? If he has not, has he had the opportunity? Brandon Sanderson No, + not really. RoW Release Party (Nov. 17, 2020) 42 minutes ago, Gaiden9 said: I'm speaking to a specific chapter in WaT and referencing characters in WaT. This would be big spoilers if posted in other areas. I do ask about returned but only in reference to heralds, again stormlight topic. If it needs to be moved no big deal I think it has already been moved for you. FYSA: Just saying "Vasher" would make your post belong in Spoiler Zone > WaT (Cosmere) because Vasher is not a name he uses on Roshar - so it is Warbreaker Spoilers for people that have read Stormlight but not Warbreaker. The same applies to the normal Discussion area (or after spoiler period ends) - please use Cosmere Discussion for any post/thread referencing two or more stories/series. If posting in a Specific Board (like Stormlight Archive) - any reference that was not in a Stormlight Archive book needs a spoiler tag (e. g. Zahel:fine - Vasher: Spoiler tag) Hope that helps Edited March 12, 2025 by Treamayne SPAG/Update Ref 1
+Oltux72 he/him Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 In Wind and Truth? Almost none. Probably the function of having him in Urithiru as they were locked in is to make it plausible, even necessary that some of the ardents and Jasnah become top level arcanists in time for the back half. 1
Gaiden9 Posted March 12, 2025 Author Posted March 12, 2025 (edited) 5 hours ago, Treamayne said: You may be interested the Cosmere 101 thread and this Github tool, by the Shard's own Paleo and Jofwu. The tool has selectable options for what books to display, levels of connection (significant, easter egg, etc. - Screenshot example below w/ SA and Elantris WoK Easter Egg shown) Hide contents We don't know - but we do have this WoB: Hide contents Vetterlinj Has Vasher accomplished what he Returned to do? If he has not, has he had the opportunity? Brandon Sanderson No, + not really. RoW Release Party (Nov. 17, 2020) I think it has already been moved for you. FYSA: Just saying "Vasher" would make your post belong in Spoiler Zone > WaT (Cosmere) because Vasher is not a name he uses on Roshar - so it is Warbreaker Spoilers for people that have read Stormlight but not Warbreaker. The same applies to the normal Discussion area (or after spoiler period ends) - please use Cosmere Discussion for any post/thread referencing two or more stories/series. If posting in a Specific Board (like Stormlight Archive) - any reference that was not in a Stormlight Archive book needs a spoiler tag (e. g. Zahel:fine - Vasher: Spoiler tag) Hope that helps I'm still confused because the thread looks like it's still in the WaT spoiler section that I posted it in. While Vasher is his name in Warbreaker he was referred to as Vasher in WaT in the interlude I was referring to. Hence why I put this in the WaT spoiler section. Anyway not arguing just clarifying and pleading my case as I don't want "spoil" anything or step on any toes. Those links you posted are awesome. I'll check them out! Edited March 12, 2025 by Gaiden9 1
Treamayne Posted March 12, 2025 Posted March 12, 2025 2 minutes ago, Gaiden9 said: looks like it's still in the WaT spoiler section Sorry. You posted in: Quote Wind and Truth Spoiler Board (Stormlight-only) Wind and Truth, the fifth Stormlight Archive book, arrives December 6th, but sample chapters arrive July 29th! Discuss content from this book without spoiler tags here. General cosmere spoilers from other series are not allowed in this board. The Admins moved it to: Quote Wind and Truth Spoiler Board (Cosmere Spoilers Allowed) Discuss Wind and Truth along with full cosmere spoilers here. Two separate boards, both in the Spoiler Zone.
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