We killed you! ... who?

[Nitpicking]

Did we ever figure out (or get something from Brandon) on what Rayse was talking about when he shouted "We killed you!" at Unity?

I don't remember seeing an answer. Can't be Honor, Rayse presumably knew Honor wasn't dead. Who is "We"? Does he think Dalinar is Adonalsium? That would be a very weird mistake to make.

(Thought of while watching the most recent Shardcast. I paused it to post this.)

[logicless.bt]

This has been asked on the 27th Shard a couple times with no answers, as there are no WoBs yet. It's either mistaking Dalinar for Adonalsium, Cultivation being in on killing Tanavast (seems very unlikely now), or Rayse taking credit for Tanavast's death but referring to himself and the Shard as different people.

[Kitch]

Maybe the concept of Odium + Honor was already explored at some point, and that was "Unity"...and that was why Rayse never wanted to combine the shards in the first place.  

 

Much like how Preservation + Ruin can be Harmony or Discord.  Odium + Honor is either Retribution or Unity.  

[DSCrankshaw]

I assumed it was Adonalsium, that there was something in what Dalinar did that spooked Rayse, and he saw--or thought he saw--Adonalsium in it. I don't think we're supposed to understand it, though I keep coming back to the religion of the One and what Wit said to Jasnah at the end of Words of Radiance:

Quote

 

“You’re so convinced that there is no God.”

“The Almighty is—”

“Oh,” Wit said, “I don’t mean the Almighty. Tanavast was a fine enough fellow—bought me drinks once—but he was not God. I’ll admit, Jasnah, that I empathize with your skepticism, but I don’t agree with it. I just think you’ve been looking for God in the wrong places.”

“I suppose that you’re going to tell me where you think I should look.”

“You’ll find God in the same place you’re going to find salvation from this mess,” Wit said. “Inside the hearts of men.”

 

What if the Iriali religion, that everyone and everything is the One experiencing itself, and Wit's comments here, are both essentially true, and there's a piece of Adonalsium in everyone in the Cosmere, and that piece was revealed here as Dalinar proclaimed himself Unity--that this was, in some sense, that piece of Adonalsium made manifest? That is what Rayse saw and feared.

Edited December 30, 2024 by DSCrankshaw

[alder24]

We - the Vessel and the power. I don't think there is any other logical explanation for this right now.

[anna she/her]

In Oathbringer I-7 Rine, one of the Fused, tells Venli:

Quote

No. We will need to watch the humans constantly. At any moment any of them could manifest powers from the enemy. We killed him, and yet he fights on through his Surgebinders.

So what I'm going with right now is that the entire False Desolation, including Mishram wanting to rebel against Odium, was all a plan between the Fused, Odium, and Mishram to get Tanavast / Honor to break his word badly enough that he could be killed.

This would make "We" Team Odium, and "You" Tanavast.

[Nitpicking]

21 hours ago, logicless.bt said:

This has been asked on the 27th Shard a couple times with no answers, as there are no WoBs yet. It's either mistaking Dalinar for Adonalsium, Cultivation being in on killing Tanavast (seems very unlikely now), or Rayse taking credit for Tanavast's death but referring to himself and the Shard as different people.

27th Shard? Wow, who has been splintering Shards to make smaller Shards?

[Letryx13]

22 hours ago, logicless.bt said:

This has been asked on the 27th Shard a couple times with no answers, as there are no WoBs yet. It's either mistaking Dalinar for Adonalsium, Cultivation being in on killing Tanavast (seems very unlikely now), or Rayse taking credit for Tanavast's death but referring to himself and the Shard as different people.

I've believed from the moment I heard that line that Rayse saw Adonalsium through the spiritual realm in that moment somehow. I'm one of the ones that's posted about it before, and after WaT, I'm more convinced than ever.

12 hours ago, anna said:

In Oathbringer I-7 Rine, one of the Fused, tells Venli:

So what I'm going with right now is that the entire False Desolation, including Mishram wanting to rebel against Odium, was all a plan between the Fused, Odium, and Mishram to get Tanavast / Honor to break his word badly enough that he could be killed.

This would make "We" Team Odium, and "You" Tanavast.

I can understand the Fused talking like that, but it seems really unlikely that Odium would see it that way. We never saw from his perspective, but he seemed almost was arrogant as Taravangian, and he doesn't seem to see his minions and followers that way. Any victory is his, in Odium's mind, whether he achieves in personally or through subordinates.