wat spoilers A Potential Error Regarding the Passage of Time for the Heralds as Opposed to the Passage of Time for Roshar

[Crimson_Russ]

Quote

"While years pass there, months will pass for us.

We have time, for once, and peace".

 

Stated by Kaladin to Kalak in the Postlude.

Is this supposed to be exactly how it is stated or is this a mistake?

 

Given the time dilation surrounding Roshar, and the fact that the Heralds aren't on Roshar, shouldn't this be reversed?

Shouldn't years pass for the Heralds while only months pass on Roshar, or is it supposed to be as written?

 

I feel that this is an error because it wouldn't make sense otherwise, in my opinion.

[Shuffel]

I think ishar put them into something similar to a spiritual realm vision. Where time slows drastically for them.

[alder24]

4 hours ago, Crimson_Russ said:

 

Stated by Kaladin to Kalak in the Postlude.

Is this supposed to be exactly how it is stated or is this a mistake?

 

Given the time dilation surrounding Roshar, and the fact that the Heralds aren't on Roshar, shouldn't this be reversed?

Shouldn't years pass for the Heralds while only months pass on Roshar, or is it supposed to be as written?

 

I feel that this is an error because it wouldn't make sense otherwise, in my opinion.

It's not an error. Ishar was able to hide Herald's minds in the Spiritual Realm, in a vision similar to those experienced by Dalinar and Navani in this book. In the Spiritual Realm times flow very differently so that's not a surprise that from Herald's perspective it would feel like months, when in reality it will be years on Roshar (and that's separate from the whole time dilation that's happening around Roshar now). Braize is technically still a part of the Rosharan system, it's still close to Roshar to experience the same time dilation as Roshar does (and Ashyn too). A Shard settling on a planet is the same as a Shard settling in the whole star system. 

Spoiler

ZuperzubS

Hi Brandon, just to double check my understanding of things, Odium is still mostly bound on Braize right? Just that he can influence things on Roshar because of proximity?

Brandon Sanderson

I treat Braize, Ashyn, and Roshar as if they were almost one entity for a lot of Identity/Connection related issues. It's more than proximity, though proximity leads to it. We on Earth, I feel, would consider the moon and even Mars to be "ours" so to speak, part of our family of planets. Odium's binding, and that of the Heralds/Fused encompasses Roshar and Ashyn. There are some subtle distinctions, but for the most part, being bound on Braize is the same as being bound on Roshar.

mraize7

So Shadesmar is only from Roshar or from the three planets??

Brandon Sanderson

You can reach all three through Shadesmar, with a much shorter trip than to other systems. But the map we provide so far is only Roshar.

[...]

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 7, 2020)

 

[Darvys]

Yeah this was weird, Kaladin's comment doesn't make much sense if time is faster in the vision, months for them instead of years when they're looking to rest and heal is a problem not something to cheer them up, and feels like a convenient plot device to ensure they do not recover fully before they are forced to return, especially since it was the opposite in every other vision that occurred in the book. I'm still hoping it's a mistake that slipped through, even though it could be rationalized.

[The Wise Fool]

I think the point is that in previous times on Braize, they would have wanted time to go faster than on Roshar, because they were being tortured. One month putting up with torture could mean a year or 10 of peace for people on Roshar! But that wasn’t the case. But now, according to Ishar, it’s both peaceful AND time will speed up till the “Last Return” or whatever they called it. I think it only makes sense when you think about how much they must have hated waiting for hundreds of years for the next return. This way, they will still likely have complete peace to recover, but not too much time that they have to wait hundreds of years for another return.

idk, it’s not totally satisfying to me either, but I could definitely see this being Kaladin’s mindset when he said it.

[christianrapper]

I really don’t understand that comment either. It doesn’t make any sense.  

[Saal]

Under the old Oathpact, the Heralds were locking the Fused away on Braize and when a Herald broke they triggered another Desolation/Return.

Under this new Oathpact, I think the Heralds are shielding all spren from Retribution. My guess is that when the Heralds Return the spren will lose that protection, so the longer that the Heralds can stay hidden the longer the spren get to live and that effect is compounded by the Herald's existing in a space where time passes much slower than the physical/cognitive realm.

I'm probably missing other context but this seems like the most significant detail to explain why the Heralds might feel good about time passing more slowly for them.

[DiePie]

I agree that it's weird. The conclusion I came to is that even a month is "time" to the heralds. They bounced between running from playing the worst game of hide and seek, being tortured, having to lead humanity and then once the cycle was complete, running from their own guilt and shame. Now, they have time that is their own, that they don't have to feel guilty for using. I assumed it was an unfortunate quirk of the writing (and not having an editor go: "This isn't what you're trying to imply, right?") that the line implied a comparison between the amount of time they have vs how much time people have outside on Roshar.

[Scullamin]

I'm tardy to this party but I think we (me) are bad at describing time speed. If I stood still and everyone else went fast, I might describe that as time "sped up" but I'm the slow one. Luckily, Brando solved this with sliders and pulsers. However this might be a dangerous description for future use... because cosmere. So I'll add astericks for now.

Correct me if wrong. Roshar is caught in a [pulser's slowness bubble]* while the heralds, whose minds are in the spiritual realm, are in a [slider's speed bubble]*

*not actual Scadrian magic.

On 12/16/2024 at 9:12 PM, Crimson_Russ said:

While years pass there, months will pass for us

Kadalin has said this first line as if he's in a pulser's slowness bubble.

On 12/16/2024 at 9:12 PM, Crimson_Russ said:

We have time, for once, and peace

and then this second line would indicate he's in a slider's speed bubble. Think of Wayne with all his spare time to change clothing.

I think this is the confusion with Kaladin's comment. It's contradictory.

[Treamayne]

14 minutes ago, Scullamin said:

On 12/16/2024 at 5:12 AM, Crimson_Russ said:

We have time, for once, and peace

and then this second line would indicate he's in a slider's speed bubble. Think of Wayne with all his spare time to change clothing.

I think this is the confusion with Kaladin's comment. It's contradictory.

The second comment is not about passage of time, which may be why it seems contradictory. Read it more like "we have months with no obligations or torture to spend on nothing but healing our souls in peace"

[Scullamin]

10 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

The second comment is not about passage of time, which may be why it seems contradictory. Read it more like "we have months with no obligations or torture to spend on nothing but healing our souls in peace"

Time still seems to be a sticking point. Could Kaladin be talking about time between desolations? Like now society will have time to progress before the heralds return? ... are desolations even a thing anymore? The Everstorm is here.

[Treamayne]

15 minutes ago, Scullamin said:

Time still seems to be a sticking point. Could Kaladin be talking about time between desolations? Like now society will have time to progress before the heralds return? ... are desolations even a thing anymore? The Everstorm is here.

Between books 5 and 6 approximately 10 years will pass for Roshar. In that time, Scadrial will experience about 80 years; while the Heralds will experience months.

This is likely a deliberate choice by Ishar because one of the primary problems for the Herlads is the weight of millenia of memories for a soul not meant to exist so long. The last thing they wouldl want is to add more years of time and memories to that Cognitive debt.

[Dofurion]

22 hours ago, Treamayne said:

This is likely a deliberate choice by Ishar because one of the primary problems for the Herlads is the weight of millenia of memories for a soul not meant to exist so long. The last thing they wouldl want is to add more years of time and memories to that Cognitive debt.

The problem with this is that there is less time to carry out effective therapy. It feels like a "get well quick, while we're here years of war have passed"

[Treamayne]

2 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

The problem with this is that there is less time to carry out effective therapy.

We may know that, but would Kaladin know that yet? By the end of WaT he's had a bare few weeks of working on Psychological theory (a bit before the Invasion of Urithiru - where his group was making progress, but obviously not "healed" - and his ten days with Szeth and Nale). I, personally, do not expect the Herlads to return in the back five "mostly better" - more like "we recogize some of the issues and are starting to try to develop coping mechanisms."