Gavinor in the Back Half

[sarsaparilla]

The way that Gavinor acted in the last sample chapters has got me thinking about his role in Stormlight 6-10. It seems like a lot of people both here and on Reddit think that he's being set up as Odium's champion—which I find to be a pretty clear red herring, but that's beside the point. Assuming that he survives WaT, I think that Gavinor will become a Radiant, most likely a Dustbringer. 

Currently, we only have two named Dustbringer characters, Malata and Ral-na, neither of which seem particularly aligned with Urithiru and the rest of the radiants (admittedly I haven't read Dawnshard yet so I may be wrong about Ral-na). By the time the Dustbringer book rolls around, Gav will be at least 16 and will have had a number of books to develop his character. 

We don't know a ton about the order, but they seem to be based around the control and application of great power, and self-mastery. I think this aligns really well with overcoming and controlling great rage/hatred (especially when that hatred stems from the heir to the throne of Alethkar.) The Coppermind states that the order is typically built around tinkerers and strategists, but it also says that the Releasers are the most diverse order, so Gavinor's position as prince/king doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to me. 

Of course, I might be completely wrong, I'm just spitballing here. 

Thoughts?

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, sarsaparilla said:

The way that Gavinor acted in the last sample chapters has got me thinking about his role in Stormlight 6-10. It seems like a lot of people both here and on Reddit think that he's being set up as Odium's champion—which I find to be a pretty clear red herring, but that's beside the point. Assuming that he survives WaT, I think that Gavinor will become a Radiant, most likely a Dustbringer. 

Currently, we only have two named Dustbringer characters, Malata and Ral-na, neither of which seem particularly aligned with Urithiru and the rest of the radiants (admittedly I haven't read Dawnshard yet so I may be wrong about Ral-na). By the time the Dustbringer book rolls around, Gav will be at least 16 and will have had a number of books to develop his character. 

We don't know a ton about the order, but they seem to be based around the control and application of great power, and self-mastery. I think this aligns really well with overcoming and controlling great rage/hatred (especially when that hatred stems from the heir to the throne of Alethkar.) The Coppermind states that the order is typically built around tinkerers and strategists, but it also says that the Releasers are the most diverse order, so Gavinor's position as prince/king doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to me. 

Of course, I might be completely wrong, I'm just spitballing here. 

Thoughts?

Well, anything is possible personally, I am of the opinion that he will be the champion (in order to fulfill the requirements. The champion can only be one of three people, and I don’t see the other two realistic options, despite the foreshadowing of it in the last chapter.) 

We don’t know much about Gavinor additionally, the character is still young so he could still change dramatically over the course of the time skip skip I certainly could see him as dust bringer, or perhaps a sky breaker.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

3 hours ago, sarsaparilla said:

The way that Gavinor acted in the last sample chapters has got me thinking about his role in Stormlight 6-10. It seems like a lot of people both here and on Reddit think that he's being set up as Odium's champion—which I find to be a pretty clear red herring, but that's beside the point. Assuming that he survives WaT, I think that Gavinor will become a Radiant, most likely a Dustbringer. 

Currently, we only have two named Dustbringer characters, Malata and Ral-na, neither of which seem particularly aligned with Urithiru and the rest of the radiants (admittedly I haven't read Dawnshard yet so I may be wrong about Ral-na). By the time the Dustbringer book rolls around, Gav will be at least 16 and will have had a number of books to develop his character. 

We don't know a ton about the order, but they seem to be based around the control and application of great power, and self-mastery. I think this aligns really well with overcoming and controlling great rage/hatred (especially when that hatred stems from the heir to the throne of Alethkar.) The Coppermind states that the order is typically built around tinkerers and strategists, but it also says that the Releasers are the most diverse order, so Gavinor's position as prince/king doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to me. 

Of course, I might be completely wrong, I'm just spitballing here. 

Thoughts?

I think he'll fall in the same boat as Oroden, Kaladin's brother, having the shadow of famous family members, aspiring to be Radiant. At least for Oroden, I'm hoping for him not to be a Windrunner and be another order and dealing with expectations, like Albus Potter, but done right.

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Well, anything is possible personally, I am of the opinion that he will be the champion (in order to fulfill the requirements. The champion can only be one of three people, and I don’t see the other two realistic options, despite the foreshadowing of it in the last chapter.) 

We don’t know much about Gavinor additionally, the character is still young so he could still change dramatically over the course of the time skip skip I certainly could see him as dust bringer, or perhaps a sky breaker.

I don’t think skybreaker is right for him, (as of now, like you said he could change) because he seems to be willing to go through any means to kill Moash.

Although, Radiance is about growth, so we could see him start to get better at using the law and politics exclusively to persecute his enemies.

[alder24]

16 hours ago, sarsaparilla said:

The way that Gavinor acted in the last sample chapters has got me thinking about his role in Stormlight 6-10. It seems like a lot of people both here and on Reddit think that he's being set up as Odium's champion—which I find to be a pretty clear red herring, but that's beside the point. Assuming that he survives WaT, I think that Gavinor will become a Radiant, most likely a Dustbringer. 

Currently, we only have two named Dustbringer characters, Malata and Ral-na, neither of which seem particularly aligned with Urithiru and the rest of the radiants (admittedly I haven't read Dawnshard yet so I may be wrong about Ral-na). By the time the Dustbringer book rolls around, Gav will be at least 16 and will have had a number of books to develop his character. 

We don't know a ton about the order, but they seem to be based around the control and application of great power, and self-mastery. I think this aligns really well with overcoming and controlling great rage/hatred (especially when that hatred stems from the heir to the throne of Alethkar.) The Coppermind states that the order is typically built around tinkerers and strategists, but it also says that the Releasers are the most diverse order, so Gavinor's position as prince/king doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to me. 

Of course, I might be completely wrong, I'm just spitballing here. 

Thoughts?

That sounds like a very good idea. I like it. While I cannot ignore foreshadowing for the child champion theory, I'm not a fan of it, I don't think this will happen and you actually took the same signs and put them in a different perspective. Dustbringers would be a very fitting order for Gavinor and help him with his emotions. Truthfully, he can start developing a bond very soon - spren do bond with kids, Lift and Shallan are prime examples of this. Age doesn't really matter for them. 

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

That sounds like a very good idea. I like it. While I cannot ignore foreshadowing for the child champion theory, I'm not a fan of it, I don't think this will happen and you actually took the same signs and put them in a different perspective. Dustbringers would be a very fitting order for Gavinor and help him with his emotions. Truthfully, he can start developing a bond very soon - spren do bond with kids, Lift and Shallan are prime examples of this. Age doesn't really matter for them. 

This is a good point, because age isn’t something they even really understand; to them, all humans are extremely young.

I also think the child champion is not likely, because that is just extremely predictable, and frankly, overdone. (Not this specific situation , but like, you must kill a child to save the world)

[bmcclure7]

22 minutes ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

This is a good point, because age isn’t something they even really understand; to them, all humans are extremely young.

I also think the child champion is not likely, because that is just extremely predictable, and frankly, overdone. (Not this specific situation , but like, you must kill a child to save the world)

I see but Brandons not above being predictable at times. Beside that leaves only Adolin and Renarin as possible candidates both seem unlikely. 
 

Just curious what do you mean “over done” is there a lot of fantasy out there with child champions of evil that I have never read?

Edited November 17, 2024 by bmcclure7

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

4 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

I see but Brandons not above being predictable at times. Beside that leaves only Adolin and Renarin as possible candidates both seem unlikely. 
 

Just curious what do you mean “over done” is there a lot of fantasy out there with child champions of evil that I have never read?

Hehe no I just mean the sorta thing like someone is prepared to save the world, but the bad guy turns out to be someone they know and love, or like to get the bad guy, they need to do smt horrible.

[bmcclure7]

47 minutes ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

Hehe no I just mean the sorta thing like someone is prepared to save the world, but the bad guy turns out to be someone they know and love, or like to get the bad guy, they need to do smt horrible.

Ok I understand 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

18 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Beside that leaves only Adolin and Renarin as possible candidates both seem unlikely. 

I don't think it has to someone Dalinar cares about as champion... Why should it be.?

There is no confirmation that the loophole is the person who will be Odium's champion. 

Since Dalinar is trying to get the powers of a Bondsmith unchained, he will be as powerful as Ishar atleast(Dalinar is specifically asking for Ishar's help). Nale could be a great choice for the contest. Or it could be Ishar himself. Or El.

It doesn't have to be Adolin or Renarin or Gavinor

[Slayd_07]

6 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

It doesn't have to be Adolin or Renarin or Gavinor

Yeah, I think these three are red herrings. It would just be such a heel turn for any of them to turn to Odium's side, and I think Odium manipulating a child into becoming his champion would violate the agreement - I don't think your champion can be "willing" if they don't fully grasp what they're agreeing to. 

[bmcclure7]

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I don't think it has to someone Dalinar cares about as champion... Why should it be.?

There is no confirmation that the loophole is the person who will be Odium's champion. 

Since Dalinar is trying to get the powers of a Bondsmith unchained, he will be as powerful as Ishar atleast(Dalinar is specifically asking for Ishar's help). Nale could be a great choice for the contest. Or it could be Ishar himself. Or El.

It doesn't have to be Adolin or Renarin or Gavinor

It has to be someone he cares about because it has to be a draw . It has to be someone that he can’t kill and can’t kill him. Nale Ishar el all these could win, but ODM doesn’t want to win. He wants to get out of the contest entirely. He made that very clear and rhythm of war.

The only way Oduim wins is with a draw because wit has rigged it so that odium loses either way however as foreshadowed in rhythm of war, he hasn’t anticipated possibility that neither side could win. 
 

1 hour ago, Slayd_07 said:

Yeah, I think these three are red herrings. It would just be such a heel turn for any of them to turn to Odium's side, and I think Odium manipulating a child into becoming his champion would violate the agreement - I don't think your champion can be "willing" if they don't fully grasp what they're agreeing to. 

1. It has to be one of them no other candidate will give odium what he wants, which isnt Victory. 
 

2.Todium doesn’t have to follow the spirit of the law anymore only the letter. That was made clear by wit. so simple consent is probably all he needs as opposed to reasonable consent or informed consent.
 

3. If it’s unmade possession him then it would qualify as both willing and not a child.

[Kfish]

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

It has to be someone he cares about because it has to be a draw . It has to be someone that he can’t kill and can’t kill him. Nale Ishar el all these could win, but ODM doesn’t want to win. He wants to get out of the contest entirely. He made that very clear and rhythm of war.

The only way Oduim wins is with a draw because wit has rigged it so that odium loses either way however as foreshadowed in rhythm of war, he hasn’t anticipated possibility that neither side could win. 
 

1. It has to be one of them no other candidate will give odium what he wants, which isnt Victory. 
 

2.Todium doesn’t have to follow the spirit of the law anymore only the letter. That was made clear by wit. so simple consent is probably all he needs as opposed to reasonable consent or informed consent.
 

3. If it’s unmade possession him then it would qualify as both willing and not a child.

The child champion theory would lead to extreme critiques on what Sanderson considers as consent. It absolutely will not happen. I don't know why everyone is focused on the champion. Its been clear for books that the contest isn't important - its the lead up. 

[bmcclure7]

2 minutes ago, Kfish said:

The child champion theory would lead to extreme critiques on what Sanderson considers as consent. It absolutely will not happen. I don't know why everyone is focused on the champion. Its been clear for books that the contest isn't important - its the lead up. 

Your forgetting again that Todium doesn’t have to follow the the spirit of the contest only the letter. Again, he doesn’t need Real consent just the appearance of it. If the contest wasn’t important, then this would not book would not be divided into days. It’s literally set up so that the context is the climax.

 

and I would like to remind you again that if it’s a unmade possessing Gavinor then it would neither be a child and it would also be fully consenting

Edited November 18, 2024 by bmcclure7

[logicless.bt]

If Shallan could consent to a bond as a child AND break the bond, all while not truly understanding what it would entail, I think that Gav's consent would count.

27 minutes ago, Kfish said:

The child champion theory would lead to extreme critiques on what Sanderson considers as consent. It absolutely will not happen. I don't know why everyone is focused on the champion. Its been clear for books that the contest isn't important - its the lead up. 

Contest aside, I think that the actions of Dar'kness the evil god of evilness have very little impact on the way people see Sanderson's morality. Odium (the shard) is hatred manifest, and manipulating a child is extremely benign compared to, say, torturing the Heralds infinitely.

[mariapapadia she/her]

Maybe it’s because I’ve listened to the sample chapters& RoW, but the voice KR does for Gavinor doesn’t suit him at all. His character gave me the creeps from the start. The only moment when I haven’t perceived him like a demon child(imo) was when he talked to Lift & they shared that brother-sister moment. 
I would be interested to see him interacting with others more. 

[TwinStorm He/Him]

So after today's chapters, it takes about how he doesn't like spren. So maybe he arms himself with anti-investiture in some point in the future?