Miyabi She/Her Posted October 10, 2024 Posted October 10, 2024 [Curiosity] Do we currently have a list of the tertiary Surges that the Radiants gain access to?
Palindrome Posted October 10, 2024 Posted October 10, 2024 You mean like resonance? Like the windrunners sculpting the air around them?
Dofurion Posted October 10, 2024 Posted October 10, 2024 I see 2 options: 1. Resonances (In the case of Windrunners: Squire Force) 2. Mixed surgers(In the case of Windrunners: Reverse Bond) In both cases it is not completely known in the other Orders. 1
Njvodin Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 If by tertiary Surges, you mean interactions between Surges when Surgebinding, then... Windrunners get to use Reverse Lashings (Adhesion on Gravitation) Lightweavers get to use substantiation (Transformation on Illumination) Bondsmiths get (?) some form of mending to inanimate objects (Adhesion on Tension) Additionally, there are also effects on other Surgebinders, but I can only think of one right now Bondsmiths and Lightweavers can use Adhesion and Illumination to create (but are not limited to) illusion based maps (like a hologram projector) 1
listerfeend Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 21 hours ago, Palindrome said: You mean like resonance? Like the windrunners sculpting the air around them? Well, I don't think that is a resonance, as we're told the resonance of Windrunners is that they get more squires, and we know that the interaction between two Invested Arts like that only has one outcome. So, I think you may be on the right track as far as the ability, but not the type of ability Substantiation comes to mind for Lightweavers. That one seems pretty straightforward, Transformation on Illumination. I wonder if there is something that goes the other way as well, Illumination on Transformation? I'm not sure what that would look like. Elsecallers : Transportation and Transformation - so I suspect that they can Soulcast at a distance? There seems to be a proximity element to regular Soulcasting, so maybe they have an extended range? Willshapers: Transportation and Cohesion - The only thing I can think of is "Molecular restructuring at a distance" ...I was going to go through all of the Orders and make guesses, but I don't feel like I'm creative enough to do this lol
CtrlAltDepressed Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 54 minutes ago, listerfeend said: Transportation and Transformation - so I suspect that they can Soulcast at a distance? There seems to be a proximity element to regular Soulcasting, so maybe they have an extended range We have seen Jasnah do this several times, I would be willing to bet it is their resonance.
Etedbert he/him Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 (edited) 51 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said: We have seen Jasnah do this several times, I would be willing to bet it is their resonance. During the Cosmere RPG Kickstarter, Johnny O’Neal revealed that Brandon said soulcasting at a distance is not exclusive to Elsecallers. (Update: he’s actually commenting that order specific abilities are in their “Bond” skill tree, and that Surge skill trees are identical for each order that can use it.) We see Reverse Lashings and “Physical Illusion” aka Substantiation are the unique abilities for Windrunner and Lightweaver respectively. We also see Distant Soulcasting as a skill on the Lightweaver Transformation tree in the preview material on Demiplane.The RPG is not 100% in line with canon, but it seems like it’s just a difficult skill to master, and our main POV character with Transformation has a bad habit of not using it. (Storming Shallan) Edited October 11, 2024 by Etedbert 1
CtrlAltDepressed Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 38 minutes ago, Etedbert said: I believe during the Cosmere RPG Kickstarter, Brotherwise employees revealed that Brandon said soulcasting at a distance is not exclusive to Elsecallers. Excellent source, I hadnt seen any of this. Time to go down the rabbit hole, thank you! The link for those curious: https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/cosmererpg
Miyabi She/Her Posted October 11, 2024 Author Posted October 11, 2024 [Excitement] I guess I was kinda talking about both, but combining Surges is more what I was talking about. Such as Substantiation. Like, I knew this information I just didn't know if it was readily collected somewhere as I didn't see anything on the coppermind about it. BUT, now that I remember resonance there is some of that one the Resonance page. [Consideration] Though this indicates mnemonic ability as the Resonance granted to Lightweavers and we have no information outside of them and the Windrunners for certain. The Resonance itself doesn't seem directly related to the abilities that are being mixed. However, it seems Spiritually attached. Windrunners - Protect people by teaching them to protect themselves and others a.k.a. more Squires. Lightweavers create insane illusions which can be Substantiated when a high enough level is reached, hence memory being a big deal.
alder24 Posted October 11, 2024 Posted October 11, 2024 2 hours ago, listerfeend said: Elsecallers : Transportation and Transformation - so I suspect that they can Soulcast at a distance? There seems to be a proximity element to regular Soulcasting, so maybe they have an extended range? We have a WoB confirming Lightweavers can do this as well, but it's just harder for them. Spoiler Questioner Is Jasnah being able to Soulcast at a distance the resonance of her two Surges or is that just a Radiant thing that's not with the fabrials. Brandon Sanderson Jasnah's Order is better at that than others. It is not impossible that you could imagine a Lightweaver being able to do it. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) 18 minutes ago, Miyabi said: [Excitement] I guess I was kinda talking about both, but combining Surges is more what I was talking about. Such as Substantiation. Like, I knew this information I just didn't know if it was readily collected somewhere as I didn't see anything on the coppermind about it. There isn't much we know. Substantiation is something new, but hinted to be possible during the battle of Thaylen Field. Windrunners have Reverse Lashing, which combines their Surges and Bondsmiths can use Adhesion and Tension to restore broken buildings and structures. That's all we have as far as I'm aware. 1
Palindrome Posted October 12, 2024 Posted October 12, 2024 8 hours ago, listerfeend said: Well, I don't think that is a resonance, as we're told the resonance of Windrunners is that they get more squires, and we know that the interaction between two Invested Arts like that only has one outcome. So, I think you may be on the right track as far as the ability, but not the type of ability Substantiation comes to mind for Lightweavers. That one seems pretty straightforward, Transformation on Illumination. I wonder if there is something that goes the other way as well, Illumination on Transformation? I'm not sure what that would look like. Elsecallers : Transportation and Transformation - so I suspect that they can Soulcast at a distance? There seems to be a proximity element to regular Soulcasting, so maybe they have an extended range? Willshapers: Transportation and Cohesion - The only thing I can think of is "Molecular restructuring at a distance" ...I was going to go through all of the Orders and make guesses, but I don't feel like I'm creative enough to do this lol The windrunner resonance of more squires has nothing to do with their surges. This makes me think the other orders resonance will not be about their surges. In the fandomwiki it says they exemplify “virtues of protection and leading “ this is where I believe their resonance comes from. Based upon that substantiation is no more a resonance than the Windrunner surge that combined both surges. It is said that lightweavers attracted artists and we have seen how talented Shallan is. I would say their resonance is creativity or artistic ability. Likewise Elsecsllers may have supernatural intelligence. Based upon the one resonance we know of it is not a combination of surges.
alder24 Posted October 12, 2024 Posted October 12, 2024 11 hours ago, Palindrome said: It is said that lightweavers attracted artists and we have seen how talented Shallan is. I would say their resonance is creativity or artistic ability. Likewise Elsecsllers may have supernatural intelligence. Based upon the one resonance we know of it is not a combination of surges. It has been mostly confirmed that Lightweavers resonance is their mnemonic abilities. WoR ch 49: Spoiler These Lightweavers, by no coincidence, included many who pursued the arts; namely: writers, artists, musicians, painters, sculptors. Considering the order's general temperament, the tales of their strange and varied mnemonic abilities may have been embellished. Spoiler Argent There is a person on the forums who noticed that Shallan has this awesome Memory thing going on, Jasnah seems to have a really powerful, kind of, geolocation thing going on, Kaladin is a really good fighter - are those just their traits, or is there something supernatural going on? Brandon Sanderson There is something supernatural going on. Each Order... Well, how about this. If you look at the scholar interpretations, there are some scholars who think that these things are not supernatural, in the past, and some who said they definitely are. But many, if you look, many Lightweavers had powerful mnemonic abilities. Argent So it's definitely tied to the Orders? Brandon Sanderson It's tied to the Orders. Now, I am not going to say that you've got them all 100% correct, but each Order, there are things that come with Order, things that do not add up from simple the "you get this power plus this power," there is something else going on. And I would say that for Windrunners, watch the number of squires and the power of the squires... is abnormal for the Windrunners. Argent And each Order's squires are somehow different from the other Orders'? Brandon Sanderson Yeeeaaaah... some Orders don't have them, [that] is the difference. Argent But some have more? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014) 2
Dofurion Posted October 12, 2024 Posted October 12, 2024 16 hours ago, Palindrome said: The windrunner resonance of more squires has nothing to do with their surges. This makes me think the other orders resonance will not be about their surges. In the fandomwiki it says they exemplify “virtues of protection and leading “ this is where I believe their resonance comes from. Based upon that substantiation is no more a resonance than the Windrunner surge that combined both surges. It is said that lightweavers attracted artists and we have seen how talented Shallan is. I would say their resonance is creativity or artistic ability. Likewise Elsecsllers may have supernatural intelligence. Based upon the one resonance we know of it is not a combination of surges. I would like to add that this also seems to be something quite close to the things that can be achieved with Spiritual‐Adhesion, metaphorically it can be argued that the Squires are those who Gravitate to the Radiants. 4 hours ago, alder24 said: It has been mostly confirmed that Lightweavers resonance is their mnemonic abilities We have also recently been given clues that these mnemonic abilities function more similarly to copper feruchemy. Shallan stores in her mind what she wants to draw until she has it captured, after that she "loses" much of the precision of what she had "memorized." 3
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