Factionalization in the Ghostbloods? (I-1)

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

I know I'm a little late on this one, since the interludes came out a week ago, but...

In Kalak's interlude, along with generally bad things happening, we get this juicy tidbit:

Quote

“There might not be a need,” Ala replied. “I’ve already relayed the information on Mishram’s location to Iyatil.”

“And Lord Kelsier?” Felt said. “I don’t work for that masked witch.”

“Him as well,” Ala said. “Obviously.” The spren hovered around Kalak’s head. “Do we use the dagger?”

Felt considered it, saw Kalak’s distress, and frowned. “No. I don’t trust it—Iyatil gave it to us, and Lord Kelsier said to be careful. I think we wait to make sure the mission goes as planned. Mraize and Iyatil might contact us for more explanations. So we sit tight, keep this one company, and bide our time.”

Felt clearly doesn't trust the Rosharan branch of the Ghostbloods. He seems to be working for Kelsier directly, which is interesting given that the Rosharan branch of the Ghostbloods tends to stand apart from the rest of the organization. All of this makes me wonder: How deep are the wounds in the Ghostbloods? What could Iyatil, who Kelsier seems to have trusted, want? Is Marize being played for a pawn? And, since they already have Kalak, what could the Ghostbloods want with BAM?

I don't have many ideas, but I'd love to hear some of yours!

[alder24]

8 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

I know I'm a little late on this one, since the interludes came out a week ago, but...

In Kalak's interlude, along with generally bad things happening, we get this juicy tidbit:

Felt clearly doesn't trust the Rosharan branch of the Ghostbloods. He seems to be working for Kelsier directly, which is interesting given that the Rosharan branch of the Ghostbloods tends to stand apart from the rest of the organization. All of this makes me wonder: How deep are the wounds in the Ghostbloods? What could Iyatil, who Kelsier seems to have trusted, want? Is Marize being played for a pawn? And, since they already have Kalak, what could the Ghostbloods want with BAM?

I don't have many ideas, but I'd love to hear some of yours!

There definitely is a division between Rosharan branch of Ghostbloods and the rest, they are doing things which Kelsier would never approved (like selling Lift to Fused) so it seems like they are kind of on a verge of going rogue. I still think they both have the same goals (getting Stormlight off Roshar, capturing Kalak for Kelsier), but their ways of achieving it are way too drastic for Kelsier's liking. 

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

18 hours ago, alder24 said:

There definitely is a division between Rosharan branch of Ghostbloods and the rest, they are doing things which Kelsier would never approved (like selling Lift to Fused) so it seems like they are kind of on a verge of going rogue. I still think they both have the same goals (getting Stormlight off Roshar, capturing Kalak for Kelsier), but their ways of achieving it are way too drastic for Kelsier's liking. 

I think you may have understated the case. If Kel is warning his agents not to trust Iyatil, it's entirely possible that she's planning to move against the rest of the organization. Additionally, I'm starting to be concerned about the race to find BAM. I don't know why the Ghostbloods want her if they already have Kelek.

[alder24]

10 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

Additionally, I'm starting to be concerned about the race to find BAM. I don't know why the Ghostbloods want her if they already have Kelek.

My bet is Connection. BAM is able to manipulate Connection. Stormlight is tied to Roshar and Honor with Connection - removing that using BAM will allow them to carry it out of the system. Something they want to do very much. Is that the only reason? I don't know, but it's the simplest. Kalak can't do that, he can't even free himself from Roshar. Kelsier wants Kalak not just to find out where Mishram is, he wants him also to learn more about how to avoid becoming like Kalak. 

RoW ch 13:

Spoiler

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“Power,” Mraize said. “Portable, easily contained, renewable. You hold the energy of a storm in your hand, Veil. That raw energy, plucked from the heart of the raging tempest. It is tamed—not only a safe source of light, but of power that those with … particular interests and abilities can access.”
[...]
"Nalthis. Scadrial.” He spoke the words with a different accent. “Where are they. That’s an excellent question, Radiant. Suffice it to say they are places in Shadesmar where our Stormlight—so easily captured and transported—would be a valuable commodity.”
Curious. She knew so little of Shadesmar, but the spren had vast cities— and she knew Stormlight was prized there. “That’s why you wanted to get to Urithiru before Jasnah. You knew the Oathgates would offer easy access to Shadesmar. You want to control commerce, travel, to these other places.”
“Excellent,” Mraize said. “Trade to Roshar through Shadesmar has been historically difficult, as there is only one stable access point—one controlled by the Horneaters, who have been unpleasant to deal with. Yet Roshar has something that so many other peoples in the cosmere want: free, portable, easy-to-access power.”
[...]
“This power is something we call Investiture,” Mraize said. “Investiture manifests in many forms, tied to many places and many different gods. It is bound to a specific land—making it very difficult to transport. It resists. Try to carry this too far, and you’d find it increasingly difficult to move, as it became increasingly heavy."
[...]
“This gemstone cannot go where it is needed. A more perfect gemstone could contain the Light long enough to go offworld, but there is still the Connection problem. This little flaw has caused untold trouble. And the one who unlocks the secret would have untold power. Literal power, Radiant. The power to change worlds…”
“So you want to unravel the secret,” Radiant said.
“I already have,” Mraize said, making a fist. “Though putting the plan into motion will be difficult. I have a job for you.”
[...]
“Iyatil has reported to Master Thaidakar,” Mraize said, “and he has accepted—after some initial anger—that we will not be able to control the Oathgates. I explained that there at least is a calming wind in this, like the riddens of a storm. With Dalinar controlling the Oathgates, he can prosecute the war against Odium.”
“And that helps your cause?”
“We have no interest in seeing the enemy rule this world, Shallan. Master Thaidakar wishes only to secure a method for gathering and transporting Stormlight.” 

RoW ch 82:

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“Our master, Thaidakar, has an … affliction similar to that of the Heralds. He needs access to a Herald to learn more about his state so he might save himself from the worst of its effects.”

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

Alternatively, it's possible that with Mishram they will be able to reawaken Preservation's fragment in souls of every Scadrian and democratize Allomancy, just like Kelsier wants - it was Mishram who was able to grant forms of power to every Singer so this certainly is within the scope of her power. TLM epilogue 4:

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“Perhaps Ruin and Preservation should have thought about that before giving genetically derived powers to only part of the population. My goal is to democratize this. Take the power away from the few, give it to the many.”
[...]
"We need Allomancers and Feruchemists. Is there a way to expand our access to Metalborn? They have the seed inside them, don’t they? The heart of Preservation?”

 

[Qviqve]

36 minutes ago, alder24 said:

My bet is Connection. BAM is able to manipulate Connection. Stormlight is tied to Roshar and Honor with Connection - removing that using BAM will allow them to carry it out of the system. Something they want to do very much. Is that the only reason? I don't know, but it's the simplest. Kalak can't do that, he can't even free himself from Roshar. Kelsier wants Kalak not just to find out where Mishram is, he wants him also to learn more about how to avoid becoming like Kalak

As @alder24 said, I'm leaning towards Connection. They already have the method of moving Investiture through Shadesmar, primarily via Aluminum (and maybe other methods). So, there must be another reason for Felt to stay and interrogate Kalak. I like the idea of Kelsier trying to not become as mad as the Heralds due to their CS status and seems very plausible. Nowadays even more, due to Hoid telling the about Breaths as a method of keep memories. In can't remember if Kalak, or Ala, were present but could be an option. 

However, we are talking about Kelsier! There must be another secret.

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

What if another Kelsier's goal is to understand how the Heralds were able to use the Surges and try to replicate the same for himself? We know that he has lost his allomantic powers. Maybe he is interested in the heralds as they can use Investiture via bonds (like Nale) and Honorblades. That will be difficult, but who knows?

WOB:

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Sethcran

When Kelsier said in The Lost Metal that he couldn't Steelpush over water, do the Ghostbloods think that Kelsier has his Allomantic powers, and is he lying to them about it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they think he has Allomantic powers still.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

 

[Isilel]

On 9/25/2024 at 3:37 AM, NerdyAarakocra said:

I don't know why the Ghostbloods want her if they already have Kelek.

 

Let's not forget that BAM can produce Voidlight. If transported off Roshar, she can provide a steady source of Investiture that doesn't have to be hauled through Shadesmar in gems.

Bringing a human-hating spren of Odium into your neighborhood doesn't seem like the safest choice, but Kelsier was always prepared to take risks...