Will all modern Willshapers be Parshendi?

[Elite01]

See above for the question. I’m just curious will all willshaper a be Parshendi/parshmen? I can’t find any WoB about it.
 

 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

It seems that way, the Lightspren haven't forgiven humans about the Recreance, though with the truth of it being a mutual decision instead of a betrayal that might change later on.

Though odds are high that Lightspren will be primarily bonding Parshendi from now on, since they are a people that has sacrificed much for the sake of being free, if they weren't worthy of being Willshapers then I don't know who could be.

[Treamayne]

22 minutes ago, Elite01 said:

See above for the question. I’m just curious will all willshaper a be Parshendi/parshmen? I can’t find any WoB about it.

There do not seem to be any WoBs specifically about Reachers and Singers/Listeners as Willshapers.

Based on what Timber told Venli, it seems possible, but that was also before Maya's cnofession at the trial. We also know that Ivory acted against the greater will of other Inkspren, as did Syl (Honorspren) originally - so I think it unlikely to say that "all Willshapers will be Singer/Listeners", especially because Reacher's (and Willshaper's) Oaths are specifically about Freedom and Choice. Even if most Reachers prefer Singer bonds, I don't think that would preclude any specific Reacher that decided to bond a Human (or Aimian, etc.)

[Elite01]

I agree that each spren can make a choice so there can be exceptions but we have seen all star spren only bond those being initiated into Nales skybreakers. So even if there was a suitable candidate somewhere else on Roshar they didn’t select them.

This could come down to the specific variety of Spren but it provides a precedent of a type of Spren only bonding people one a specific group.

One could argue that honor Spren do the same. They only bonded people in kaladins squads.

Makes me wonder if there’s a correlation to the radiant orders being established if random/grass roots radiants popping up across Roshar become less likely. 
 

We really can’t say for sure but with the current information it seems likely modern willshapers will be Parshendi. 

Edited August 5, 2024 by Elite01

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Elite01 said:

Makes me wonder if there’s a correlation to the radiant orders being established if random/grass roots radiants popping up across Roshar become less likely. 

WoB on that:

Spoiler

Soni

Is there a reason for why so many early Radiants were family? Including theorized ones, we have Tien and Kaladin, Jasnah and Elhokar, Dalinar and Renarin, Shallan and Helaran...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, so I can give you the "how the sausage is made," I call this the narrative reason vs the in-world reason. I can give you both.

In-world reasoning is that, when these bonds are forming, these human beings have bonds to other people, and that naturally leads the spren along those bonds. When Kaladin is forming a bond with a windspren [honorspren], and windspren [honorspren] start looking, or even other sapient spren start looking for people, they're going to notice. Remember, they're coming into the Physical Realm, it's very hard for them. They're doing this partially from the Cognitive Realm, searching and trying to get pulled through by the attention and the bond that is forming. They're naturally led to other people who are related. You could even say that, because of Tien, Syl found Kaladin.

I built this in for a narrative reason, and the narrative reason is: we generally are going to want to have a larger than average number of people among the core characters, who are involved in the magic system, and involved in the narrative. Because the magic system is so important in my books, I knew that I was gonna have a lot of friends and family of main characters end up with spren bonds.

But I don't think this is unusual. In fact, I think this is more true to life. It's not one of those coincidences we make up for a book; it's one of those coincidences that happens in life that seems unusual. It seems unusual if you look at it and say, "There are five people who became full-time in the publishing industry during the year Brandon was a senior at BYU. And they are all friends; in fact, they were all friends before they got published." This seems unusual; like, why didn't anyone else? There is nobody else that I know that broke in into the industry from that year. Maybe it happened, but nobody I knew who wasn't in our immediate friend group. Well, this is not that surprising if you actually look at it, because when one person breaks in, it becomes so much easier for everyone else that knew that person. Not just for networking reasons. (Networking reasons: obvious). The other obvious one is: the people are gonna know each other because they're all gonna be moving in the same circles, looking for each other without knowing it. They're gonna be looking for other good writers, and they're gonna be making connections with them. They're gonna notice when people ask questions in a class that are the right kinds of questions to be asking about getting published.

But even beyond those two things, once I broke in, Dan Wells has said before he realized, "Brandon did this; this is real. He actually did this. I can do this." And indeed, he went and broke in. Once this thing that seems impossible, whether it's becoming a full time novelist, or forming a spren bond and becoming a Knight Radiant; once you've seen somebody do it, it becomes way easier for you to conceive of yourself doing it. This is why C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were in the same writing group. This is why you see this sort of thing happening all around the world and in all sorts of professions, that people who were friends together... Every time that people are like, "Wow, these three major Hollywood stars knew each other in high school." Well, yes, that is actually more likely to happen than not, because of all these reasons I've talked about.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Elite01 said:

See above for the question. I’m just curious will all willshaper a be Parshendi/parshmen? I can’t find any WoB about it.

Yes, it seems so. Lightspren chose Listeners specifically instead of humans. Timbre's friends are eager to bond Venli's companions - and this seems to be the will of many, if not all Lightspren. Lightapren don't trust humans at all, I doubt they will bond with them. RoW ch 67:

Quote

Timbre thrummed excitedly.
“What do you mean, ‘them’?” Venli asked. She looked up, noticing lights in the hallway. She attuned Anxiety, but then the lights drew closer. The three little spren were like Timbre: in the shape of comets with rings of light pulsing around them.
[...]
“Didn’t you say spren like you need a bond to be aware in the Physical Realm? An anchor?”
Timbre’s explanation was slightly ashamed. These were eager to bond Venli’s friends, her squires. That had given these spren access to thoughts and stability in the Physical Realm. Venli was the anchor.

RoW ch 109:

Quote

“My spren though,” Venli said. “She … has friends, who are willing to maybe try again. With us.”

RoW ch 115:

Quote

She held out her hand, and a little spren in the shape of a comet flew up from the grass and started circling it. “She’s new to this realm and a little confused. But she’s seeking someone to bond and make into a Radiant. Like me and my friends.”
[...]
“There are more of these spren that will make listeners into Radiants?” he asked.
“Yes,” she said.
“How many?”
“Hundreds,” she said

OB ch 101:

Quote

“That is true,” Ico said. “You are all human—and so none of you, regardless of birth, can be trusted with oaths. A contract to travel, this is fine. But humans will betray trust if it is given to them.” The spren frowned, then seemed to grow embarrassed, glancing away. “That was rude.”
“Rudeness doesn’t necessarily imply untruth though.”
“I did not mean an insult, regardless. You are not to be blamed. Betraying oaths is simply your nature, as a human.”

 

[+robardin he/him]

I agree, Ico (who is strongly implied is Timbre's "father") is likely a typical Reacher who have long viewed humans as "untrustworthy" since the Recreance, and I think even with Maya's Revelation filtering out among the spren, it would take time to overcome that longstanding prejudice.

Especially when there ARE hundreds of listeners to bond. Just like Yunfah, the honorspren who'd lost his Radiant, was very resistant to consider bonding with Rlain as "one of the enemy" despite him being in Bridge Four, but still "fell in line" when ordered by Kaladin "his superior officer" to give him a chance (which obligation Rlain then released him from).

If pressed, they'd admit they COULD bond such an individual, but they don't WANT to, and don't feel that they should HAVE to.

And it really is about anger over the Recreance and not how "humans" are "prone to oathbreaking". I mean, the listeners are themselves descended from singers who broke away from Odium, presumably becoming some kind of oathbreakers - certainly labeled as "traitors" by the Fused - in the process, yet their exemplifying a desire to be "free and independent" is very attractive.

Edited August 12, 2024 by robardin