Trueself Ferrings, the masters of Hemalurgy

[Trusk'our he/him]

Modern Hemalurgy has two big limitations placed on it; Identity contamination makes it impossible to Compound without some kind of refinement, and the Spiritweb rejects new powers from any spikes after an unknown threshold is met.

However, this WoB states that blanking Identity makes one susceptible to a whole bunch of things in the Cosmere; 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3547

sebarial

Would a Feruchemist actively storing Identity be more susceptible to Forgery? Would more outlandish changes be able to take effect? Thanks for your time, and have a wonderful day.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, if you store Identity, it makes you susceptible to ALL KINDS of things in the Cosmere. Forgery would be on the short list.

<snip>

So, I think that this has the potential to bypass modern Hemalurgy's limitations; you can blank the Identity of spikes in your Spiritweb to Compound and lower your spiritual defenses to let more powers in. Basically, personalized Hemalurgy as the Inquisitors had it.

Of course, we don't strictly know if either of these things can be done by blanking Identity, but I'd say there's a fair shot of success. 

There's also the matter of potentially opening yourself up to the Flaw more, but that's what aluminum foil hats are for.

I suppose I just find it cool that a Ferring I once thought of as being the last I'd want to be might have some of the most potential. Just goes to show that Kelsier was right. There's always another secret. 

[therunner he/him]

I don't think that would work, since Spikes have some Identity of their own (hence Identity Contamination), Identity Ferring's powers would not affect them at all.  Ferrings powers affect themselves only, and Spikes are not theirs at all hence would not be affected.

As such all it would do is probably let the remnant Identity in Spikes and/or Hemalurgic instability take over Ferring, i.e. bad time for Ferring.

Edited August 4, 2024 by therunner

[Trusk'our he/him]

9 minutes ago, therunner said:

I don't think that would work, since Spikes have some Identity of their own (hence Identity Contamination), Identity Ferring's powers would not affect them at all.  Ferrings powers affect themselves only, and Spikes are not theirs at all hence would not be affected.

As such all it would do is probably let the remnant Identity in Spikes and/or Hemalurgic instability take over Ferring, i.e. bad time for Ferring.

That's definitely a possibility, and this whole idea could just flop.

I'd personally err on the side of the spike's Identity being viable to blank though, as for most purposes they're functionally part of the Trueself's Spiritweb. 

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Modern Hemalurgy has two big limitations placed on it; Identity contamination makes it impossible to Compound without some kind of refinement, and the Spiritweb rejects new powers from any spikes after an unknown threshold is met.

However, this WoB states that blanking Identity makes one susceptible to a whole bunch of things in the Cosmere; 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3547

sebarial

Would a Feruchemist actively storing Identity be more susceptible to Forgery? Would more outlandish changes be able to take effect? Thanks for your time, and have a wonderful day.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, if you store Identity, it makes you susceptible to ALL KINDS of things in the Cosmere. Forgery would be on the short list.

<snip>

So, I think that this has the potential to bypass modern Hemalurgy's limitations; you can blank the Identity of spikes in your Spiritweb to Compound and lower your spiritual defenses to let more powers in. Basically, personalized Hemalurgy as the Inquisitors had it.

Of course, we don't strictly know if either of these things can be done by blanking Identity, but I'd say there's a fair shot of success. 

There's also the matter of potentially opening yourself up to the Flaw more, but that's what aluminum foil hats are for.

I suppose I just find it cool that a Ferring I once thought of as being the last I'd want to be might have some of the most potential. Just goes to show that Kelsier was right. There's always another secret. 

 

I agree with therunner. Blanking Identity doesn't allow you to tap someone else's metalmind and a Hemalurgic charge is someone else's spirit web, nailed to your soul. And because those foreign fragments of spirit web aren't transmissible to your offspring, I think they would be considered separate enough so they can't be blanked by F-aluminum. 

Spoiler

Questioner

If you were to Feruchemically drain your Identity, would you just be able to be soulstamped by any--  Would any soulstamp work on you?

Brandon Sanderson

Not the way I have it now. Because-- You're getting into stuff that I really would like to have my notes next to me for. So don't take this as too gospel. But the way I have this worked out right now, is if you drain your Identity, you still can't use Feruchemical metalminds that themselves have not been drained of Identity, right?

So, any old stamp still is going to be keyed to someone's past and Identity. So my instincts say no that would not work, but I have not worked out that specific interaction in the notes.

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

I wondered if an Inquisitor had children, if they would inherit stronger Inquisitor abilities, or if they would just inherit the lesser lines from being a Seeker, for example?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. I don't think I've ever been asked this before... The way Hemalurgy works, if you're not aware, you are taking someone else's soul, and you are basically nailing it to your soul... That won't affect the children. So you will have the weaker lines.

They have tried that. Unfortunately.

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

 

I agree with therunner. Blanking Identity doesn't allow you to tap someone else's metalmind and a Hemalurgic charge is someone else's spirit web, nailed to your soul. And because those foreign fragments of spirit web aren't transmissible to your offspring, I think they would be considered separate enough so they can't be blanked by F-aluminum. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

If you were to Feruchemically drain your Identity, would you just be able to be soulstamped by any--  Would any soulstamp work on you?

Brandon Sanderson

Not the way I have it now. Because-- You're getting into stuff that I really would like to have my notes next to me for. So don't take this as too gospel. But the way I have this worked out right now, is if you drain your Identity, you still can't use Feruchemical metalminds that themselves have not been drained of Identity, right?

So, any old stamp still is going to be keyed to someone's past and Identity. So my instincts say no that would not work, but I have not worked out that specific interaction in the notes.

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

I wondered if an Inquisitor had children, if they would inherit stronger Inquisitor abilities, or if they would just inherit the lesser lines from being a Seeker, for example?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. I don't think I've ever been asked this before... The way Hemalurgy works, if you're not aware, you are taking someone else's soul, and you are basically nailing it to your soul... That won't affect the children. So you will have the weaker lines.

They have tried that. Unfortunately.

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

 

Hmm, that's a a pretty good point.

What about a Connector Ferring? If they tapped Connection to their spikes, do you think you could brute-force more spikes to give your their powers?

Edited August 4, 2024 by Trusk'our

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

What about a Connector Ferring? If they tapped Connection to their spikes, do you think you could brute-force more spikes to give your their powers?

I don't think so, this is the result of Ruin's subservient nature, which is reflected by changes done to Hemalurgy. I don't believe a simple Connection trick can overcome this Shardic problem. 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't think so, this is the result of Ruin's subservient nature, which is reflected by changes done to Hemalurgy. I don't believe a simple Connection trick can overcome this Shardic problem. 

Maybe you'll need to Invest yourself with Ruin's power somehow to corrode your soul enough? Perhaps with that Black Mist that represents Ruin.

Wouldn't be healthy in the slightest but if one was looking to make some Steel Inquisitors then that might be the way to go.

[alder24]

12 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Maybe you'll need to Invest yourself with Ruin's power somehow to corrode your soul enough? Perhaps with that Black Mist that represents Ruin.

Wouldn't be healthy in the slightest but if one was looking to make some Steel Inquisitors then that might be the way to go.

It's just investiture, half of your soul is already made out of Ruin's power. It won't corrode you, it won't be unhealthy. Wax most likely already ingested some of that Mist, alongside Preservation's Mist, because they both appear post Catacendre. And no, I doubt this would change anything. 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

On 8/4/2024 at 8:51 AM, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Modern Hemalurgy has two big limitations placed on it; Identity contamination makes it impossible to Compound without some kind of refinement, and the Spiritweb rejects new powers from any spikes after an unknown threshold is met.

However, this WoB states that blanking Identity makes one susceptible to a whole bunch of things in the Cosmere; 

  Hide contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3547

sebarial

Would a Feruchemist actively storing Identity be more susceptible to Forgery? Would more outlandish changes be able to take effect? Thanks for your time, and have a wonderful day.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, if you store Identity, it makes you susceptible to ALL KINDS of things in the Cosmere. Forgery would be on the short list.

<snip>

So, I think that this has the potential to bypass modern Hemalurgy's limitations; you can blank the Identity of spikes in your Spiritweb to Compound and lower your spiritual defenses to let more powers in. Basically, personalized Hemalurgy as the Inquisitors had it.

Of course, we don't strictly know if either of these things can be done by blanking Identity, but I'd say there's a fair shot of success. 

There's also the matter of potentially opening yourself up to the Flaw more, but that's what aluminum foil hats are for.

I suppose I just find it cool that a Ferring I once thought of as being the last I'd want to be might have some of the most potential. Just goes to show that Kelsier was right. There's always another secret. 

I don't think this would work as a general solution for unlocking hemalurgic Compounding for just anybody for the reasons that @alder24 noted. However...I do believe it would work just fine for allowing a F: aluminum twinborn to Compound their other power if they used a single complimentary hemalurgic spike. For example, if a trueself-coinshot stored all their Identity and shoved in a spike for F: steel, then I would fully expect them to be able to Compound steel for speed to their hearts content.