The expectation of a conflict wit the Ghostbloods[Discuss]

[+Oltux72 he/him]

It seems to me that much of the fandom expects Shallan to go on a crusade against the Ghostbloods. However, when I think about that, such a move would seem to be unwise, to say the least. Currently the Radiant coalition on Roshar is fighting a Shard. Even if the contest brings that to a satisfactory end, the economy of Roshar is still ruined and they are facing a low level war with the Singers for decades to come.

That is not the time to start yet another war. If I were Jasnah or Dalinar I'd tell Shallan to stop this foolish endeavour right now. My wording might not be that polite. In fact I'd inform her that one of the obvious strategies the Ghostbloods could use would be to arm the Singers and whether she'd like the idea of going up against cannon and grenades next time.
That looks like a source of internal conflict among the Radiants. What do you think?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

It seems to me that much of the fandom expects Shallan to go on a crusade against the Ghostbloods. However, when I think about that, such a move would seem to be unwise, to say the least. Currently the Radiant coalition on Roshar is fighting a Shard. Even if the contest brings that to a satisfactory end, the economy of Roshar is still ruined and they are facing a low level war with the Singers for decades to come.

That is not the time to start yet another war. If I were Jasnah or Dalinar I'd tell Shallan to stop this foolish endeavour right now. My wording might not be that polite. In fact I'd inform her that one of the obvious strategies the Ghostbloods could use would be to arm the Singers and whether she'd like the idea of going up against cannon and grenades next time.
That looks like a source of internal conflict among the Radiants. What do you think?

At the very least the Ghostbloods of Roshar have proven themselves to be willing to ally with the Voidbringers and work against the Radiants when it's convenient, such as when Mraize kidnapped Lift, who was one of them only Radiants able to use her powers and handed her straight to the Fused as a gift. So at the very least the Radiants should throw them out of the tower, which should be pretty easy since the Sibling can probably detect them regardless of what they're using to hide themselves.

Plus they've already declared war on Jasnah, who has done far worse to them than Shallan has done so far by killing a bunch of their agents, so it'd be pretty hypocritical for her of all people to tell Shallan to back down for doing the same thing she did.

The Ghostbloods pushed too far during ROW and probably gonna get burned a bit for it.

[NameIess]

55 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

It seems to me that much of the fandom expects Shallan to go on a crusade against the Ghostbloods. However, when I think about that, such a move would seem to be unwise, to say the least. Currently the Radiant coalition on Roshar is fighting a Shard. Even if the contest brings that to a satisfactory end, the economy of Roshar is still ruined and they are facing a low level war with the Singers for decades to come.

That is not the time to start yet another war. If I were Jasnah or Dalinar I'd tell Shallan to stop this foolish endeavour right now. My wording might not be that polite. In fact I'd inform her that one of the obvious strategies the Ghostbloods could use would be to arm the Singers and whether she'd like the idea of going up against cannon and grenades next time.
That looks like a source of internal conflict among the Radiants. What do you think?

With the exception of maybe Jasnah, who as Questin said has already antagonized the Ghostbloods, no one among the main cast knows how dangerous the Ghostbloods are. Even Jasnah might not know about the level of technology the Ghostbloods have access to.

Additionally, we have little indication that the Ghostbloods are able to or have the motivation to arm anyone with modern weapons. It seems to me that arming the Singers would make Roshar more dangerous to Scadrial. While I could see them aiding the Singers with intel reports and other covert methods, I highly doubt that Kelsier would approve giving a group that could be a potential enemy down the line access to firearms and other modern Scadrial technology.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

What do you think?

I think that, in the near future (SA5), it is much more likely to be a "cold war" (of the type Jasnah already has going with them). It will focus on "who can find BAM's gem first."

If paths cross, something small-scale may occur, but by-and-large it will be more of a race than combat (for now). 

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

1 hour ago, NameIess said:

With the exception of maybe Jasnah, who as Questin said has already antagonized the Ghostbloods, no one among the main cast knows how dangerous the Ghostbloods are. Even Jasnah might not know about the level of technology the Ghostbloods have access to.

 

Hoid knows exactly who the Ghostbloods are and what tech they have, and so Jasnah most likely knows by extension. If Shallan goes up against the Ghostbloods, she'd be able to anticipate their moves with a decent certainty.

Honestly, I think the main thing stopping a conflict in WaT (stupid storming acronym) would be (Mistborn spoilers)

Spoiler

Kelsier stepping in and stopping Marize,

which is likely to happen due to 

Spoiler

Kel's insistence that Marasi be left alone in TLM 

contrasting with Marize's hate for Shallan after she refuses to join.

[NameIess]

2 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

Hoid knows exactly who the Ghostbloods are and what tech they have, and so Jasnah most likely knows by extension. If Shallan goes up against the Ghostbloods, she'd be able to anticipate their moves with a decent certainty.

Honestly, I think the main thing stopping a conflict in WaT (stupid storming acronym) would be (Mistborn spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier stepping in and stopping Marize,

which is likely to happen due to 

  Reveal hidden contents

Kel's insistence that Marasi be left alone in TLM 

contrasting with Marize's hate for Shallan after she refuses to join.

I would say that Thaidakar’s reaction to Shallan will be different, given this WoB:

Spoiler

Comatose

I guess this kind of answers this question a bit, that you have more planned for the Ghostbloods in the future, but in followup to that, we were wondering... you also have Shallan reject the Ghostbloods in Rhythm of War, which was published right before. So did that play into the decision at all. Were you trying to approach the same arc from a different angle or was it more just the characters?

Brandon Sanderson

No, this was just the individual characters and what they need, so no. In my head, Marasi walking away from an offer is very different from Shallan declaring war. There will be lots of fun with that in upcoming books, lets just say that.

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

 

Edited June 6 by NameIess

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

4 minutes ago, NameIess said:

 

  Hide contents

Comatose

I guess this kind of answers this question a bit, that you have more planned for the Ghostbloods in the future, but in followup to that, we were wondering... you also have Shallan reject the Ghostbloods in Rhythm of War, which was published right before. So did that play into the decision at all. Were you trying to approach the same arc from a different angle or was it more just the characters?

Brandon Sanderson

No, this was just the individual characters and what they need, so no. In my head, Marasi walking away from an offer is very different from Shallan declaring war. There will be lots of fun with that in upcoming books, lets just say that.

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

 

First of all, spoiler the bit where you bring up 

Spoiler

Kelsier's

name! This is a SA theory moreso than a Mistborn theory, so it may have readers who haven't read TLM or SH yet. 

That said, you did just hit me with a WoB. Fair. However, I still think that you-know-who might step in to cool things off a bit, especially given that the Rosharan chapter of the Ghostbloods is somewhat separated from the rest of the organization.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

4 hours ago, NameIess said:

With the exception of maybe Jasnah, who as Questin said has already antagonized the Ghostbloods, no one among the main cast knows how dangerous the Ghostbloods are. Even Jasnah might not know about the level of technology the Ghostbloods have access to.

Wit knows for sure. Zahel may know. Kalak knows. Spren may know. And that leaves Wit in the bad position that his consort is in a conflict with the oldest friend of the shard who is his close ally.

 

4 hours ago, NameIess said:

Additionally, we have little indication that the Ghostbloods are able to or have the motivation to arm anyone with modern weapons. It seems to me that arming the Singers would make Roshar more dangerous to Scadrial. While I could see them aiding the Singers with intel reports and other covert methods, I highly doubt that Kelsier would approve giving a group that could be a potential enemy down the line access to firearms and other modern Scadrial technology.

Inevitable in the long run. Hence they may at least reap the bnefit.

 

[NameIess]

3 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

First of all, spoiler the bit where you bring up 

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier's

name! This is a SA theory moreso than a Mistborn theory, so it may have readers who haven't read TLM or SH yet

This is in the Cosmere discussion, but I will edit it to Thaidakar.

47 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Wit knows for sure. Zahel may know. Kalak knows. Spren may know. And that leaves Wit in the bad position that his consort is in a conflict with the oldest friend of the shard who is his close ally.

Wit is already in that bad position, and even before Jasnah he and Thaidakar were already enemies.

47 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Inevitable in the long run. Hence they may at least reap the bnefit.

It would jump Rosharan tech forwards significantly. Currently, Scadrial has the lead in the conventional arms race. Giving Odium’s forces modern weapons would destroy that lead, leaving Scadrial behind in magical power and tied in tech, as well as giving Odium complete control of Roshar.

Edited June 6 by NameIess

[Espella]

4 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

Honestly, I think the main thing stopping a conflict in WaT (stupid storming acronym) would be (Mistborn spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier stepping in and stopping Marize,

which is likely to happen due to 

  Reveal hidden contents

Kel's insistence that Marasi be left alone in TLM 

contrasting with Marize's hate for Shallan after she refuses to join.

 

Spoiler

Personally the impression I got from Lost Metal was that Kelsier doesn't have much control over the Rosharan Ghostbloods, Iyatil was referred to as "running amok" or somehing along those lines and Mraize seems to be running things very differently than Kelsier was. I always assumed that Kelsier just doesn't check in with them that often and they've assumed that means he approves of whatever they get up to (or they've realized he can't actually visit Roshar and don't keep him fully in the loop).