Alternate F!Copper Usage

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

Copper is weird in that it stores in discreet units. With most feruchemical attributes, you store a "part" of some attribute. You store, say, 25% of your speed or 50% of your strength, over a period of time. With copper, you choose a single memory, and store it completely and retrieve it completely. I wonder if perhaps this is a slightly off-beat, just more useful form of copper and there's another usage that's more in line with other feruchemical mechanics. Instead of just storing discreet memories, perhaps copper can also be used to store passive memory, the ability to *form* memories. When storing, you'll have difficulty or even impossibility to form new memories, and while tapping you can form them more easily to have more detailed memories. Like I said, this wouldn't necessarily be useful compared to the copper we know, but it does imply a more general possibility that each metal might be able to store several related attributes rather than just a single thing. And there is already some evidence of this- Tin works this way, for example, and Bendalloy can store both food and water separately.

[Isilel]

That would be great, yes. I also find it disappointing that according to a WoB, copper doesn't store muscle memory. It would have been such an interestingly versatile, yet properly limited ability if it did! I really hope that Sanderson reconsiders while writing the next Mistborn trilogy, because it would be nice to if he could foreground the less straightforward Metallic Arts without completely sacrificing action potential. 

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Copper is weird in that it stores in discreet units. With most feruchemical attributes, you store a "part" of some attribute. You store, say, 25% of your speed or 50% of your strength, over a period of time. With copper, you choose a single memory, and store it completely and retrieve it completely. I wonder if perhaps this is a slightly off-beat, just more useful form of copper and there's another usage that's more in line with other feruchemical mechanics. Instead of just storing discreet memories, perhaps copper can also be used to store passive memory, the ability to *form* memories. When storing, you'll have difficulty or even impossibility to form new memories, and while tapping you can form them more easily to have more detailed memories. Like I said, this wouldn't necessarily be useful compared to the copper we know, but it does imply a more general possibility that each metal might be able to store several related attributes rather than just a single thing. And there is already some evidence of this- Tin works this way, for example, and Bendalloy can store both food and water separately.

53 minutes ago, Isilel said:

That would be great, yes. I also find it disappointing that according to a WoB, copper doesn't store muscle memory. It would have been such an interestingly versatile, yet properly limited ability if it did! I really hope that Sanderson reconsiders while writing the next Mistborn trilogy, because it would be nice to if he could foreground the less straightforward Metallic Arts without completely sacrificing action potential. 

Those powers sound useful and interesting, but I don't think they would be possible for normal F-copper. But that's not a problem, there are copper god metal alloys that can work like that. A lot of them. Those would still be usable by every copper Ferring and they could get those different forms of manipulating memories outside of the normal use of F-copper. 

[Isilel]

16 minutes ago, alder24 said:

But that's not a problem, there are copper god metal alloys that can work like that. 

 

Hm, didn't think about it. Something like a copper-harmonium alloy sounds really intriguing, as well as decently available. And hopefully no longer explosive when it comes in contact with moisture. They would also have enough trellium to experiment with, I guess. But other god metals seem rarer, so only the Ghostbloods would have access, I imagine. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 hours ago, Isilel said:

I also find it disappointing that according to a WoB, copper doesn't store muscle memory. It would have been such an interestingly versatile, yet properly limited ability if it did! I really hope that Sanderson reconsiders while writing the next Mistborn trilogy, because it would be nice to if he could foreground the less straightforward Metallic Arts without completely sacrificing action potential. 

I would venture to guess that it's because it would be too easy to abuse; figure out how to duplicate the memories and you can have an army with almost preternatural skill level, which isn't super fun to read about. 

Muscle memory also may be linked to the Spiritweb and its Connections more, so if you figured out Storing and Tapping those, perhaps you could still magically obtain skill.

[Isilel]

5 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I would venture to guess that it's because it would be too easy to abuse; figure out how to duplicate the memories and you can have an army with almost preternatural skill level, which isn't super fun to read about.

 

I disagree. Muscle memory shouldn't mean that your muscles are up to performing at pretenatural level of skill without serious injury. The person whose memory you are using should also be about the same size as you for it to be helpful in a fight. It would always be a judgement call when to use which memories and how often, given that they get used up a little with each recall. Etc. 

It would actually be far less overpowered and more limited than a number of other Metallic Arts, which don't require any level of skill or thought to employ on a basic level from everything we have seen. Wayne even mentioned how easy using steel allomancy was, without any training, once he got his spike. Yes, a skilled practicioner can do more, but as we have seen throughout the 2 series, people who just got or began to use combat powers immediately became very powerful with them.

Edited May 18, 2024 by Isilel

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:24 AM, Isilel said:

 

I disagree. Muscle memory shouldn't mean that your muscles are up to performing at pretenatural level of skill without serious injury. The person whose memory you are using should also be about the same size as you for it to be helpful in a fight. It would always be a judgement call when to use which memories and how often, given that they get used up a little with each recall. Etc. 

It would actually be far less overpowered and more limited than a number of other Metallic Arts, which don't require any level of skill or thought to employ on a basic level from everything we have seen. Wayne even mentioned how easy using steel allomancy was, without any training, once he got his spike. Yes, a skilled practicioner can do more, but as we have seen throughout the 2 series, people who just got or began to use combat powers immediately became very powerful with them.

Because I really like this topic and have started thinking heavily on copper compounding I will leave this here.  This is from the Mistborn Adventure Game: Alloy of Law pg 186 for copper compounder stunts.

Spoiler

COPPER
Stitched Memories (Compounding): By spending 20 or more charges of 
Compounded memory, you can synthesize several accounts of an event you’ve only heard retellings of, just as though you were there (i.e., you can synthesize two eyewitness accounts of an event and relive it as it happened, finding the truth of the situation). Using this Stunt requires you to spend 20 Compounded charges of memory, plus 10 additional Compounded charges for every 5 minutes the event lasted (rounded up). No matter the length of the event you are recreating, reliving this stitched memory only takes one Beat.

Physical Mimicry (Compounding): By spending 20 Compounded charges 
of memory, you can imitate any action that you’ve seen once, as long as you saw it clearly. This includes complex physical tasks such as a secret handshake, running a locomotive engine, or modifying and reassembling a revolver. Note that knowing how to perform one task doesn’t help you perform related tasks, since you don’t necessarily understand everything you’re doing — you can merely mimic it. For instance, if you’ve watched an artist draw a lovely sketch of a particular house, you could draw the exact same house in exactly the same manner…but knowing how to draw that house wouldn’t help you draw a different scene. Additionally, your mimicry is limited by your actual physical abilities; while you can replicate the motions of a Pewter-fueled punch, your body can’t necessarily pull it off!

While the MAG is not directly cannon I do believe that compounding copper is something that hasn't been brought up yet as a potential option for this. 

I personally believe that compounding can bring with it new resonances the way any twinborn pairings can. 

We don't know if compounding copper simply duplicates memories or makes them more clear or engraves them more permanently on your memory but I imagine compounding copper could unlock these doors really well. 

While physical mimicary isn't storing muscle memory, and in fact it does state here that there would be dangers of trying to mimic physical feats your body is incapable of (just cause you can replicate the pewter arms wall punch form perfectly doesn't mean you will be as fast or strong at it... and it doesn't protect your hand from shattering on the brick).  I do think that this sort of Neuro hardwiring to get motions and forms down would probably work well and have fun applications for a copper compounder.  

In fact... a copper compounder is my current fan fic character and he uses copper knuckledusters which hold all of his memories of fighting and training. 

I'm playing it that so long as he stores and burns constantly he basically has an eidetic memory. (If your playing a compounder you might as well pull a Miles and constantly be storing and burning). The only things he forgets he does on purpose and he keeps those skills and memories hidden away.  His opening scene is him inspecting multiple identical sets of copper knuckles which all hold the memories of his training and experience in pugalism with them. He can ditch a set when needed and have stored his entire memory of anything illicit that may have transpired while using them. 

He has memories and copies of memories hidden all over the place and picking and choosing what he wants to remember is his entire game. 

Does that mean his muscles forget the ability to fight?  I had thought yes but maybe not. Which I can enjoy either way. 

If he could forget the ability to fight and have his muscles forget then he can instantly become unsuspecting as someone capable of doing any of the things he may be suspected of doing. 

However if he can't forget the muscle memory then he could just turn into Jason Bourne and be totally shocked by himself as he opens a can on someone.