The Abyss Philosophy (discusion)

[Just-A-Stick she/her]

Has anyone heard of The Abyss Philosophy? 

Here's the links if you don't know.

Spoiler

https://medium.com/illumination/confronting-your-abyss-6f5ca433d4ac

https://medium.com/@aristocratic/the-philosophy-of-the-abyss-f61e296e26f3

I'm reading these articles and really trying to understand them. As is my comrade @WhyEverNot_8.

It's kinda hard to wrap my mind around but I wanna understand. Anyone wanna enlighten me or debate/discuss/fling_smart_words with me?

Please don't let this die!

I want a discussion! Philosophy! 

 

I also think maybe @Shardwatcher01 might be interested judging by the philosophic question threads he's posted lately.

 Anyway, please join me in my quest for answers! 

~ Stick

[WhyEverNot_8 he/him]

I still don’t get it ._.

[Just-A-Stick she/her]

6 minutes ago, WhyEverNot_8 said:

I still don’t get it ._.

Then you're in good company!  

[Through The Living Glass She/Her]

Wait

Explain

The links don't work on my crumbook but I saw "Gaze upon that of which you are most terrified" and I want to know more

[Just-A-Stick she/her]

On 5/17/2024 at 12:11 PM, Through The Living Glass said:

Wait

Explain

The links don't work on my crumbook but I saw "Gaze upon that of which you are most terrified" and I want to know more

Spoiler

The Philosophy of the Abyss

 

Samuel

·

Follow

4 min read

·

Sep 8, 2023

 

 

 

 

 

The tremendous void is the essential core of all phenomena; representing the result of infinitely distilling the sensory world down to its basic truth. This void is representative of the ‘why’ of reality. The boiling, separating and eternal reduction cycled forever and forever produces a Truth of an ultimate and final nothingness — nothing at all.

So often is the culmination of a philosopher’s life work the uncovering of a darkness at the heart of all things. At first, the world materialises to the philosopher shrouded and bursting with bright things and lightness — yet the crust of reality is cruel and deceptive for underneath a deep endless nothingness hums.

Philosophers cyclically pursue the Truth of all things. One after another they deploy different methods and techniques in the process, only to realise we are no closer to finding lightness at the core of reality than when we first began. Since this realisation calcified, it was disseminated widely for all men and quickly did searching for the ‘why’ of all things cease as an preoccupation of philosophers. Philosophers have resigned themselves to a whole and embodied rejection of this cause. Philosophy today is only concerned with deconstruction through a gaze that seeks the lowest of perspectives — viewing from the base of the mountain, the roots of trees, the weeds and grasses in their most microcosmic and atomic form. Like Strauss says, we have lost the philosopher who is willing to chase the ‘whole’; who stands atop the highest mountains as a purveyor of the cause of the heavens and earths.

First, the question must be posed; why does the deployment of philosophical thought and scientific inquiry only uncover this tremendous void of nothingness when it thinks itself closest to locating Truth? It is the ‘why’ that once drove philosophy after all, but this seems today a secondary endeavour. Why something rather than nothing? The same feeling is evoked when interrogating this question as when one stares longingly into night. The immanent response is blackness and terror without end.

Nietzsche once warned us the horrors followed by staring too long into the abyss:

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster… for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

My interpretation is that fighting monsters is the same as willing for knowledge and increasing one’s understanding of the world at any cost — a descent down the rabbit hole into the monsters’ lair. In this lair you encounter these monsters as harbingers of the universe’s deepest secrets and only once defeated does the revelatory knowledge of the monster release itself. Most weak races cannot stomach this newfound knowledge and will become a monster themself, of the spindliest and lowest order.

They have utmost faith in expanding their understanding of the world, but these Jungian shadows and depths that lurk when one pursues the ‘why’ can quickly take over. So then men have either resolved to leave out the ‘why’ all together, and set out only for knowledge found in crags and crevices. They become evasive to the Truth and focus attention on particular knowledge. The orthodoxy prizes knowledge of the specifics like market efficiency, multilateral organisations, government enterprises and the like. We look at leaves and wood but forget the forest.

Only the highest races can trawl through the depths of the abyss at the feet of its most formidable beasts and see that the tremendous void of nothingness does not consume them but they rise above with this new knowledge in use of overcoming and expansion. So most are comfortable leaving it to the highest races.

After all, the tremendous void of nothingness is the universe’s most powerful weapon. It is most often used for ill, though within it a goodness lies waiting. The philosophy of the great man is plumbed both in the dark trench where monsters lie waiting, and atop bright mountains overlooking picturesque landscapes. Nietzsche believed himself the darkness was not as bestial and malevolent as most have it. All it takes is courage.

The quiet crucible of loneliness, self-introspection and a deep and enduring longing is where one might locate the ‘why’. A night spent under stars with a gaze directed beyond earth and into the heavenly realms beyond, where the cosmological insignificance of oneself that usually streams beneath the surface of consciousness is brought outwards and scrutinised with prying and probing eyes. One cannot make themselves smaller and this itself is liberating. One cannot transcend the harshness of reality and this itself is liberating. One cannot negate the inevitable knocking of the reaper at the end, and the turning of oneself in for the grave that must follow. The utter absurdity and unimportance of it all. This itself is liberating.

Alternatively, it is on top of mountains where one looks outward and feels the significance of the iron shaking and movement of man that another abyss is overcome. One treats the question of ‘why’ so indifferently and thrusts themself upon the world. This pursuit of the ‘truth’ is not an insurmountable nor even impossible task but a pursuit comfortably at hand. The indelible impression upon the annals of history is an inevitability of such a rare breed. Caesars, Napoleons, Hemingways, Woolfs, Christs, Kings and the like transcend their spatio-temporal constraints and force themselves into the collective consciousness for the history of our race.

“All great things must first wear terrifying and monstrous masks in order to inscribe themselves on the hearts of humanity.”

 

 

 

Confronting Your Abyss.

Gaze upon that which you are most terrified.

 

 

Thinker Boy

·

Follow

Published in

ILLUMINATION

·

3 min read

·

Mar 3, 2023

 

235

2

 

 

 

 

 

Image by Mid Journey AI and Author.

We stopped looking for monsters under our bed when we realized that they were inside us. ~ Charles Darwin

In mythology, the Abyss is a dark and bottomless realm where heroes make their last stand.

The German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche used the Abyss as a metaphor to personify the infinite depth of our psychological complexity. He saw it as a place of untold danger where we struggle to confront the deepest, darkest parts of ourselves.

But he also saw it as a place for growth and transformation. If we dare gaze into the Abyss, we are not just looking into a void of emptiness but at our most deep-seated problems and emotions:

Our demons.

But he believed we could help ourselves by dealing with them. Facing our monsters is a terrifying prospect, but it has the potential for profound and transformative discoveries. Our responsibility (and maybe even our destiny) is to want nothing more than to embrace our Abyss, confront our anguish head-on and purify ourselves of the pain.

The darker alternative is if we can’t find a way to free ourselves from purgatory, the Abyss will consume us.

Psychologist Jordan Peterson believes you can find yourself at the edge of the Abyss in one of two ways: (1) you take yourself there voluntarily, in measured proportion, or (2) events outside your control will take you there when you least want to. The latter is destructive and can potentially destroy you, while the former is a more transformative and curative approach.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. ~ Nietzsche.

Confronting and destroying your monsters requires repeated trips there, and the deeper you descend, the more it wounds, but the closer you get to the monsters. It is a challenging and emotionally taxing journey, leading to sensations of anxiety, dread, defenselessness, and doom. Failing is turning away, swearing never to return, and resigning to live with the pain. In the worst case, it can lead to suicide.

If thou gaze into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into thee. Nietzsche.

If an animal can recognize itself in a mirror, it’s been said that it has self-awareness. Nietzsche’s haunting words suggest something similar about the Abyss. If you can dip into your pain enough, and expose your vulnerability, the gloom of the Abyss becomes a mirror and reflects back at you an image of who you really are. What you see gazing back is truth. You know you’ve bottomed at this point, and there’s only one way to go from there.

^ Big font warning

 

Edited May 19 by Anguished_One
spoiler box :P

[WhyEverNot_8 he/him]

 Very big text lol

[Just-A-Stick she/her]

4 minutes ago, WhyEverNot_8 said:

 Very big text lol

I didn't feel like editing it to make it smaller  

[Wittles he/him]

I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS AN ACTUAL THING WITH AN ACTUAL NAME!!!!

THIS IS SO COOL!!!

Spoiler

If i'm understanding it correctly, it's basically saying if you gaze into the void, aka fight through monsters or battle inner demons or whatever you wanna call it, in pursuit of knowledge, and if you come out without becoming another part of the void you'll become stronger and wiser. 

Is that about it?

Spoiler

I hope I didn't misunderstand the thing

Spoiler

Lol, that would be a bit embarrassing 

 

 

 

Edited May 17 by Wittles

[Through The Living Glass She/Her]

2 hours ago, Wittles said:

I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS AN ACTUAL THING WITH AN ACTUAL NAME!!!!

THIS IS SO COOL!!!

  Reveal hidden contents

If i'm understanding it correctly, it's basically saying if you gaze into the void, aka fight through monsters or battle inner demons or whatever you wanna call it, in pursuit of knowledge, and if you come out without becoming another part of the void you'll become stronger and wiser. 

Is that about it?

  Hide contents

I hope I didn't misunderstand the thing

  Hide contents

Lol, that would be a bit embarrassing 

 

 

 

I think so?

Maybe it's not just being in pursuit of knowledge, but being in pursuit of healing/self-improvement/trying to just be a better person and face our own uncomfortable truths.

I'm not totally sure either. 

[Wittles he/him]

6 minutes ago, Through The Living Glass said:

I think so?

Maybe it's not just being in pursuit of knowledge, but being in pursuit of healing/self-improvement/trying to just be a better person and face our own uncomfortable truths.

I'm not totally sure either. 

That's what I figured. 

[Treamayne]

 

8 hours ago, Anguished_One said:

The Philosophy of the Abyss

Please spoiler tag these and/or fix the font (preferably both to reduce scroll requirement):

Spoiler

• Thee dot menu on the top right
• Click Edit
• Highlight everything
• Click Spoiler Icon (Eye)
• Option 1: (link is another post where we troubleshot a similar problem - with more tips and tricks)
  • Highlight and "cut" (CTRL+C on OC)
  • Paste
  • Click the "Paste as Plain Text" pop up at the bottom of the window to remive inherited formatting from the source (note, the pop-up disappears if you click anything else after pasting the text)
• Option 2: 
  • Highlight everything 
  • Click the "Size" (Second section from the right - Bwtween color selection and indent control)
  • Set size between 12 and 16 (based on preference and readability of font) 

9 hours ago, Anguished_One said:

https://medium.com/@aristocratic/the-philosophy-of-the-abyss-f61e296e26f3

Here's my summary and analysis of this link (the other one is just an image and quotes AFAICT)

Spoiler

Author needs to study lingual etymology and history, or is just trying to create click-bait on purpose. 

The author starts by incorrectly comparing the modern discipline of Philosophy (Concerning ethics and morals) with pre-renaissance "Natural Philosophy;" which was, essentially, the science of the time (Author's "philosophy of 'why' ") before the developement of the Scientific Method and the Age of Enlightenment. They then cross this false comparison with an almost attempt of correlation to Nietzsche and a really bad and evasive discussion of quantum physics (with all of the science removed).  Reminds me of middle management sending an email full of buzz-words they don't quite understand.

(But, bonus points for using "immanent" correctly rather than the common homophone confusion - imminent)

There are plenty of real (and properly supported) sources and discussion on Nietzsche and the ethics and morals he may have been discussing/implying without going to sources such as this. Or, better yet, get some good translations (unless German is your native language), read them yourself and make your own personal analysis. 

 

[Just-A-Stick she/her]

On 5/17/2024 at 9:32 PM, Treamayne said:

Here's my summary and analysis of this link (the other one is just an image and quotes AFAICT)

  Reveal hidden contents

Thank you!!

(I'll go look for a better version now-)

[Kasimir he/him]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:32 AM, Treamayne said:

 

Please spoiler tag these and/or fix the font (preferably both to reduce scroll requirement):

  Reveal hidden contents

• Thee dot menu on the top right
• Click Edit
• Highlight everything
• Click Spoiler Icon (Eye)
• Option 1: (link is another post where we troubleshot a similar problem - with more tips and tricks)
  • Highlight and "cut" (CTRL+C on OC)
  • Paste
  • Click the "Paste as Plain Text" pop up at the bottom of the window to remive inherited formatting from the source (note, the pop-up disappears if you click anything else after pasting the text)
• Option 2: 
  • Highlight everything 
  • Click the "Size" (Second section from the right - Bwtween color selection and indent control)
  • Set size between 12 and 16 (based on preference and readability of font) 

Here's my summary and analysis of this link (the other one is just an image and quotes AFAICT)

  Reveal hidden contents

Author needs to study lingual etymology and history, or is just trying to create click-bait on purpose. 

The author starts by incorrectly comparing the modern discipline of Philosophy (Concerning ethics and morals) with pre-renaissance "Natural Philosophy;" which was, essentially, the science of the time (Author's "philosophy of 'why' ") before the developement of the Scientific Method and the Age of Enlightenment. They then cross this false comparison with an almost attempt of correlation to Nietzsche and a really bad and evasive discussion of quantum physics (with all of the science removed).  Reminds me of middle management sending an email full of buzz-words they don't quite understand.

(But, bonus points for using "immanent" correctly rather than the common homophone confusion - imminent)

There are plenty of real (and properly supported) sources and discussion on Nietzsche and the ethics and morals he may have been discussing/implying without going to sources such as this. Or, better yet, get some good translations (unless German is your native language), read them yourself and make your own personal analysis. 

 

Spoiler

In my undergrad programme, we used to joke that you don't understand (or really get to competently discuss) Nietzsche until you're at least a fourth year. In general agreed but would caution he is probably the worst choice to self-study. Still, SEP is a good starting point—I would also say Sinhababu maybe but honestly Sinhababu's primary Nietzsche interests AFAICT are always moral psychology or meta-ethics.

 

[Shardwatcher01 he/him]

TOTALLY ON TOPIC BUT does anyone know anything about quantum superposition?

I like talking about it

not really

idk

I'm bored

its interesting 

also I think that multiverse theory and simulation theory are interesting

[Through The Living Glass She/Her]

10 minutes ago, Shardwatcher01 said:

TOTALLY ON TOPIC BUT does anyone know anything about quantum superposition?

 

A little...

If you want to clear things up it would be mighty appreciated. 

10 minutes ago, Shardwatcher01 said:

also I think that multiverse theory and simulation theory are interesting

YES OH MY GOSH YES.

[Shardwatcher01 he/him]

47 minutes ago, Through The Living Glass said:

A little...

If you want to clear things up it would be mighty appreciated. 

YES OH MY GOSH YES.

YES OH MY GOSH YES.

[Just_a_Fan he/him]

by the end of your run-of-the-mill jrpg, your knight or whomever is more or less a separate entity, slowly but surely altered by the story "ship of theseus" style, no longer the young, innocent squire-farmboy at the start. i wish for y'all to add in earthbound to this discussion for me, as i have the poetry skills of an AAA company, and cannot express my thoughts on this subject properly. 

eh, rust it.

when sword-boy beats false-idol, he returns home feeling like a monster, he's part of the mysterious void, another queer beast from the forest.

when Ness returns home, he's Ness. he's the hero of onnet for getting rid of a gang, perhaps cleaning a nearby town of a blue cult, but that's just about it, he's just a brave kid, perhaps a hero, but a kid none-the-less. 

Edited May 21 by Just_a_Fan