Luhel Bonds

[Immortal Platypus he/him]

Alright, I don't see anywhere this fits better, so here it is. Luhel bonds. Are they always water for control/power? If not, do wielders of Nightblood form a Luhel bond with him, Investiture for power? We see that he can drain a person's innate Investiture if needed, and we see that controlling spores can drain all your water and (I believe) kill you from dehydration. Thanks!

[alder24]

3 hours ago, Immortal Platypus said:

Alright, I don't see anywhere this fits better, so here it is. Luhel bonds. Are they always water for control/power? If not, do wielders of Nightblood form a Luhel bond with him, Investiture for power? We see that he can drain a person's innate Investiture if needed, and we see that controlling spores can drain all your water and (I believe) kill you from dehydration. Thanks!

Investiture will work as a replacement for water, we've seen Prasanva in TLM using pure Dor after all. Luhel Bond is how Aethers bond, it turns physical matter into investiture/Aethers, but it can be sourced with some external investiture, just like in other invested arts pure unkeyed investiture can hack the system. Nightblood seems different, he specifically feeds on souls and any investiture he can find, not on matter (but he turns matter he strikes into investiture). Moreover the bond with Nightblood gets stronger after he feeds on you once, that's unlike anything like we've seen with the Luhel Bond so far. I don't think that's a Luhel bond at all, but there are similarities.

This quote states that it's not always water, generally it's a physical matter, so some other forms of the Luhel bond that takes something else instead of water might appear. Lift comes to my mind, she trades calories into Lifelight, but WoBs say she metabolizes food into investiture instead of sugar, so who knows if that really is a Luhel Bond - not with Wyndle however. Tress ch 31:

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Midnight spores are different—in fact, they’re closer to how the aethers are supposed to work. Bringing midnight spores to life creates a temporary bond, a kind of symbiosis between host and aether. Unlike the Nahel bond, which trades in consciousness and anchoring to reality, the Luhel bond trades in physical matter. In this case, water.

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher's Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person. It's not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.

Warbreaker Annotations (June 22, 2011)

 

[Treamayne]

On 4/20/2024 at 2:41 PM, Immortal Platypus said:

Alright, I don't see anywhere this fits better, so here it is. Luhel bonds. Are they always water for control/power? If not, do wielders of Nightblood form a Luhel bond with him, Investiture for power? We see that he can drain a person's innate Investiture if needed, and we see that controlling spores can drain all your water and (I believe) kill you from dehydration. Thanks!

BLUF: We do not yet know, as there are lots of implications, but few answers (not even RAFOs yet).

What we do know is:

1. that the bond described in Tress is a Luhel Bond which exchanges water to form a bond.
   • This bond allows some measure of Connection and control of a Spore growth/entity
   • This bond also allows a Spore Eater to be protected by their Bond while providing water to the Bond
2. We know that TwinSoul also shares a bond with Silajana that exchanges water, but never called it a Luhel Bond.
   • We know that this bond allws Twinsoul to "create" physical matter out of Aether, as well as exercise control over those things as long as they remain connected.
3. We also know that a Sand Master trades water for control of the Sand, which is also not explicitely called a Luhel Bond
   • We do know that Overmastery allows this control to be improved and the bond become more efficient
   • We do know that Tress appears to experience this effect, but without it ever being called "Overmastery"

What we do not know, for sure, is that all three of them are truly Luhel Bonds (or just something similar/related). We do not know if Water is the only physical comodity on which the bond can be formed. We do not know if the "Control" and "growth" functions are similar, related or disparate examples of the bond (assuming they are both Luhel Bonds).

There is no portion of Nightblood's Bond that matches these examples, but we do not know for sure if Nightblood's Bond is Nahel, Luhel or some other version of which we do not have enough data. The only things we know for sure about Nightblood's bond is that he Connects to a person when he speaks into their head, that Connection is what results in the Nausea or "Killing spree ending with Suicide by Nightblood." We know that if you draw Nighblood and he feeds from you (and you survive), then you have a Bond that allows Nightblood to feel that Connection in the future and also makes you (partially) immune to his "Nausea or bust" reactions.

Edited May 1 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Quantus he/him]

So, Allomancy is a Luhel Bond to Preservation/Harmony, right?  

Per Hoid in Tress, the Nahel Bonds trade consciousness for Realmic anchoring while the Luhel bond trades in Physical Matter, with Water being phrased as one specific case.  It sounds like that is the same relationship Allomancy has with its metal Keys.  It's the only broader Realmic mechanic that fits and explains the annihilation that happens with the Metal Burn, which always seems like an odd thematic aspect of Preservation's magic.  

[alder24]

40 minutes ago, Quantus said:

So, Allomancy is a Luhel Bond to Preservation/Harmony, right?  

Per Hoid in Tress, the Nahel Bonds trade consciousness for Realmic anchoring while the Luhel bond trades in Physical Matter, with Water being phrased as one specific case.  It sounds like that is the same relationship Allomancy has with its metal Keys.  It's the only broader Realmic mechanic that fits and explains the annihilation that happens with the Metal Burn, which always seems like an odd thematic aspect of Preservation's magic.  

Ooooo, that makes so much sense!

[+hwiles]

On 4/20/2024 at 2:41 PM, Immortal Platypus said:

Alright, I don't see anywhere this fits better, so here it is. Luhel bonds. Are they always water for control/power? If not, do wielders of Nightblood form a Luhel bond with him, Investiture for power? We see that he can drain a person's innate Investiture if needed, and we see that controlling spores can drain all your water and (I believe) kill you from dehydration. Thanks!

Honestly, at this point, I sincerely believe that Nightblood might be a unique one-off beast of the cosmere that can never be emulated or fully understood except at a shard-wielder level. It has been repeatedly implied (but never close to confirmed) that Endowment herself may have personally altered the governing rules of Awakening to prevent any of her practitioners from ever producing another Nightblood simply because of how realmatically-hacked and stupidly-menacing he is.

I don't even suspect that Nightblood's form of bonding should have a name; it's completely unnatural. He permanently and irrevocably binds his soul to anyone who touches him and...he can only do that without unraveling his own mind because he's ridiculous powerful and/or kills most of his users.

Is Nightblood's bond a form of Luhel or Nahel? No...I believe it is a unique form of bonding that Awakeners accidentally created for themselves; one which violates the normal principles and constraints of any naturally evolved symbiotic bonding relationship and is, quite frankly, no longer allowed by divine decree.

[Treamayne]

31 minutes ago, hwiles said:

I don't even suspect that Nightblood's form of bonding should have a name; it's completely unnatural. He permanently and irrevocably binds his soul to anyone who touches him and...he can only do that without unraveling his own mind because he's ridiculous powerful and/or kills most of his users.

Is Nightblood's bond a form of Luhel or Nahel? No...I believe it is a unique form of bonding that Awakeners accidentally created for themselves; one which violates the normal principles and constraints of any naturally evolved symbiotic bonding relationship and is, quite frankly, no longer allowed by divine decree.

Interesting theory. Personally, I think another (as yet unnamed) bond is "Emotion" based. Note this easy-to-miss snippet from HoA Ch 61:

Spoiler

“She’s still alive,” Elend said.

Ham nodded. “I believe so too.”

Elend smiled. “It’s not just faith, Ham,” he said, nodding toward the koloss that had remained behind. “Before she was captured, I gave some of those to her. If she’d died, then they would have gone out of control. As long as she lives—whether or not she has metals—she will remain bonded to them.”

So, why can an Allomancer continue control of Hemalurgic Constructs without Metals? A Bond. How does the bond form - manipulating emotions (WoB Below).

How does Nightblood "test" and "influence" wielders?

I propose this is also emotion based - the test is sensing emotions that might come from a desire to "do Evil" (as interpreted by his Command) then "Rioting" those emotions (with a portion of influence that lends an amount of "control") so the person destroys others then themselves. When the "rioting" doesn't have a proper target (because those emotions - hate, avarice, etc. are not present) the side-effect is nausea. But, like an Allomancer controlling a Hemalurgic Construct, once established it remains in effect until the one that created it releases the Bond (and Nightblood probably doesn't even know that bond can be released) or another bond takes it away. Once a person survives weilding Nightblood and he has fed from their investiture, the Bond becomes reinforced with Connection - which allows Nightblood's other "features" such as finding the Bonded person (like a Seon using Connection to find direction or talk through another person's Seon). 

Spoiler

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<Edited for length and related content>

Brandon Sanderson

It does work on most magics, though the interactions can be odd unless you know a lot about the workings. Emotional Allomancy, for example, works by lapping against the outsides of someone's cognitive self, influencing you the way music might stir your soul. So being inside a living body wouldn't necessarily stop it--you'd just have more interference. Kind of like how you can still hear music outside if it's loud enough.

Actual mind control in the cosmere requires you to get INSIDE the soul, which you've seen happen frequently enough.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

 

 

18 hours ago, Quantus said:

It sounds like that is the same relationship Allomancy has with its metal Keys.  It's the only broader Realmic mechanic that fits and explains the annihilation that happens with the Metal Burn

Interestign theory, but itis not the only mechanic that fits - since we know the Metal is being converted to investiture as it's molecular structure functions like a Command (sinimlar to AonDor Aons) allowing access to Preservation's investiture. WoB.

Spoiler

Quote

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

What would happen if a person were to burn a metal that was Feruchemically charged using Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect. The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does. in this case, say you were burning steel, you would just be massively speedy for a second, and wouldn't actually have the ability to push on anything Allomantically. Hope that answered the question. I get the concept, so if you need me to explain it differently, let me know and I'll try. Oh, the other thing I forgot is that this concept only works if it's a metal that you charged yourself. If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular Allomancy, and the Feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

If someone aluminum or duralumin burned the Feruchemically charged metals, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Basically the same thing as above, except with aluminum. Aluminum, they would just go away.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

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Questioner

The metals used in Allomancy are they naturally occurring on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

They do.

Questioner

And all the alloys as well?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, the magics would...oh, all the alloys in Roshar naturally occurring… The magic of Mistborn is related to the actual metals' structure being the key. So, you can use metals from other worlds, there's no actual power in the metal. The metal is like a password.

Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

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tay95

A theme throughout a lot of the Cosmere novels is that form, of one sort or another (patterns, aons, etc.) has a crucial role to play in unlocking or using Investiture.

As a chemist, I'm curious about the role of form in Allomancy and Feruchemy. Does the underlying molecular or crystalline structure of the metal or alloy play a roll? Different processes, doping ratios, and metal mixtures result in different molecular packing, lattices, and ultimately structure. It seems like that kind of very defined, orderly matrix would be right in line with other forms of unlocking Investiture.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes! I've actually mentioned to people before that the chemistry of the various metals acts, for Allomancy, in the same way that the Aons work for AonDor. It's more a key than it is a source of power itself.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 4, 2015)

 

Not saying you are wrong, just pointing out it is not the only possible explanation currently available. 

 

[Quantus he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

 

Interestign theory, but itis not the only mechanic that fits - since we know the Metal is being converted to investiture as it's molecular structure functions like a Command (sinimlar to AonDor Aons) allowing access to Preservation's investiture. WoB.

  Hide contents

 

Not saying you are wrong, just pointing out it is not the only possible explanation currently available. 

 

Im not looking at the Investiture Tuning aspect of it, which you'r right is everywhere, Im looking at the Mundane Matter Annihilation aspect.  Outside of Shardblades/nightblood (and technically Lift I guess?) nothing else straight-up annihilates matter in exchange for Power, and nothing else in the entire cosmere is capable of annihilating Aluminum with investiture. And that annihilation being way you gain access to Preservation's Power always seemed thematically dissonant to me.  

[Treamayne]

2 minutes ago, Quantus said:

nothing else straight-up annihilates matter in exchange for Power,

My point was not the "investiture key" it was that the metal is not being "annihilated" it is being converted:

Spoiler

Questioner

Is Scadrial losing mass when people burn metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, technically it is, but Investiture is another dimension to matter.

Questioner

So it doesn't lose mass, it becomes Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

It becomes Investiture... Basically, when you go into the cosmere, we've got matter, we've got energy here. You've got matter, energy, and Investiture there, and you can get things out of Investiture back into matter, and stuff like that. There's always energy, there's entropy, there's always diffusement... it's basically, add to the laws of thermodynamics a third item, and that's how we word it.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017)

Matter, energy and Investiture are all the same thing and convert from one to another. Investiture becomes matter (Shardblades) Investiture becomes gas (Mist), etc. In metals, the metal is itself oconverting into Investiture one-molecule-at-a-time and being supplemented by Preservation's investiture being released from the SR into the effect specified by the molecule's structure. 

However, in a Luhel Bond, the matter (water) is being sent through the bond to the other end of teh bond - there is <something> passing in both directions of the bond. This is easiest to see in White Sand where the Mastered Sand turns black (just like when water is poured on it) because the physical water is pulling from the Sand Master, transporting through SR shenanigans and infusing the Sand with physical water. In bonded Spores, the Sporouter is conveying water from tehir body to the Spores to faciliate growth, movement, etc (just as the spores "grow" with water poured on them). 

All of your examples are actually Conversions - Shardblades are pulling the Deadeye into the Physical realm, as it enters it converst from Cognitive Investiture into Physical Metal (Godmetal) and the laws of thermodynamics show that the consumed energy for the conversion lowers the temperature causing condensate to form on the metal. 

[Immortal Platypus he/him]

3 hours ago, hwiles said:

Honestly, at this point, I sincerely believe that Nightblood might be a unique one-off beast of the cosmere that can never be emulated or fully understood except at a shard-wielder level. It has been repeatedly implied (but never close to confirmed) that Endowment herself may have personally altered the governing rules of Awakening to prevent any of her practitioners from ever producing another Nightblood simply because of how realmatically-hacked and stupidly-menacing he is.

I don't even suspect that Nightblood's form of bonding should have a name; it's completely unnatural. He permanently and irrevocably binds his soul to anyone who touches him and...he can only do that without unraveling his own mind because he's ridiculous powerful and/or kills most of his users.

Is Nightblood's bond a form of Luhel or Nahel? No...I believe it is a unique form of bonding that Awakeners accidentally created for themselves; one which violates the normal principles and constraints of any naturally evolved symbiotic bonding relationship and is, quite frankly, no longer allowed by divine decree.

I think there is some kind of bond, not Nahel for sure, and also not Luhel. I'd be shocked if those are the only two possible bonds though. I like Treamayne's idea of an "Emotion" bond. 

Could you provide some examples of hints towards Endowment changing Awakening? Awakening is a general principle (I think) that just happens to be easier to do with Breaths than most Investiture. 

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Brandon Sanderson
You can't use Stormlight to power Awakening very easily, but if you still have those Breaths, you can use them and reclaim them.

I see this as an example of a different power system that can Awaken. I believe there is a WOB more directly answering it, but I couldn't find it. If I'm right about that, I don't think Endowment could change a fundamental aspect of the entire cosmere.

[Quantus he/him]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

My point was not the "investiture key" it was that the metal is not being "annihilated" it is being converted:

  Reveal hidden contents

However, in a Luhel Bond, the matter (water) is being sent through the bond to the other end of teh bond - there is <something> passing in both directions of the bond. This is easiest to see in White Sand where the Mastered Sand turns black (just like when water is poured on it) because the physical water is pulling from the Sand Master, transporting through SR shenanigans and infusing the Sand with physical water. In bonded Spores, the Sporouter is conveying water from tehir body to the Spores to faciliate growth, movement, etc (just as the spores "grow" with water poured on them). 

Matter, energy and Investiture are all the same thing and convert from one to another. Investiture becomes matter (Shardblades) Investiture becomes gas (Mist), etc. In metals, the metal is itself oconverting into Investiture one-molecule-at-a-time and being supplemented by Preservation's investiture being released from the SR into the effect specified by the molecule's structure. 

However, in a Luhel Bond, the matter (water) is being sent through the bond to the other end of teh bond - there is <something> passing in both directions of the bond. This is easiest to see in White Sand where the Mastered Sand turns black (just like when water is poured on it) because the physical water is pulling from the Sand Master, transporting through SR shenanigans and infusing the Sand with physical water. In bonded Spores, the Sporouter is conveying water from tehir body to the Spores to faciliate growth, movement, etc (just as the spores "grow" with water poured on them). 

If you are saying the Metals are being converted whole/relativistically from Matter to Investiture, that's what I mean as well: 'annihilating' in the same sense of matter/antimatter reactions that 'annihilate the Matter and convert it all to Energy. However WOB states the Metals are not providing any of the fuel Investiture for allomancy, just a (technically optional) catalyst that provides a means to access Preservation (which could be a reasonable description of a Luhel Bond).

 

Spoiler

 

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Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Eight

Preservation's Power

All right, so maybe I lied about there only being three magic systems in this book. It comes down to how you term the powers of Preservation and Ruin, who kind of blanket the entire system. There are a lot of things going on here, and—well, the truth is I don't want to mention all of them, for fear of spoiling future books. However, I'll give you a few rules to apply.

First, to these forces, energy and mass are the same thing. So, their power can take physical shape—as Preservation's did in the bead of metal Elend ate. Second, there is a bit of Preservation inside of all the people—and it's this that allows the people to perform Allomancy. It needs to be awakened and stirred to be of use, but when it is, a proper metal can draw forth more of Preservation's power. It's like the metal attunes the bit within the person, allowing it to act as a catalyst to grab more power.

Allomancy is not fueled by metal; it is fueled by Preservation. The metal is the means by which a person can access that fuel, however. If there were another way to access it, then the metal wouldn't be needed.

Preservation's touch on people differs. Some have more, some have less. This doesn't make them better or worse people—indeed, some most touched by Preservation have been among the worst people in the world. As Ruin later points out, there is a difference between being evil and being destructive.

Regardless, if a person can get more Preservation into them, they become better Allomancers. Hence Elend becoming a Mistborn. Like all people, he had the potential within him—it was just too small of a potential to be awakened through normal means. That little jolt of Preservation's body, however, expanded and awakened his Allomancy.

As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal did. It wasn't the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 12, 2009)

 

If you are saying that Allomancy as a Nahel Luhel Bond would mean the metals are being shunted to some other location (in whatever realm) that's a fascinating idea that had not occurred to me.  Semantically it's the same things with another step at the end to convert it back to Matter, but still.  It wouldnt be the first time Preservation set up a Metal-hoarding system for mysterious reasons.  

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

All of your examples are actually Conversions - Shardblades are pulling the Deadeye into the Physical realm, as it enters it converst from Cognitive Investiture into Physical Metal (Godmetal) and the laws of thermodynamics show that the consumed energy for the conversion lowers the temperature causing condensate to form on the metal. 

That is a different effect entirely, Im talking about the way shardblades carve a channel on objects as they cut (per all the Stone vs Cheese Block conversations), and the extreme case of Nightblood Destroying way more in all three realms.  I didnt mean the way spren Manifest a physical form through the anchor provided by the Nahel Bond.   

Edited May 1 by Quantus

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Immortal Platypus said:

I believe there is a WOB more directly answering it, but I couldn't find it. If I'm right about that, I don't think Endowment could change a fundamental aspect of the entire cosmere.

I'm guessing you mean this one:

Spoiler

Edited for content relevance and length 

Argent

There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean [using] Breaths [to] Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer.

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

 

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

That is a different effect entirely, Im talking about the way shardblades carve a channel on objects as they cut (per all the Stone vs Cheese Block conversations), and the extreme case of Nightblood Destroying way more in all three realms.  I didnt mean the way spren Manifest a physical form through the anchor provided by the Nahel Bond.   

I'm guessing that our interpretation of the word "annihilate" is different. Shardblades cut through in animate objects by converting a small amount of the cut matter into investiture (which likely re-enters the investiture cycle in the SR - because the Shardblade is cutting in all realms - otherwise the converted matter would be causing a "flash" in the PR as it is converted). So, if by annihilate, you mean "converting matter into something that is not matter" then I think we are saying similar things. I take "annhilate" to mean "ceasing to exist in any form" and that was what I disagreed with. Allomancy is converting the metal into investiture, that molecule size piece of converted matter is used to open the channel to the SR so that Preservation's investiture in teh SR can flow through the hole to power the Allomancy (with the metal's "key" shaping the hole into how the investiture functions when it arrives) there is no "bond" (in the Luhel/Nahel sense) anywhere in that process - that is simply how that Manifestation of Investiture functions - Metal (as a key) is burned (converted to investiture) and produces an effect based on the type of metal (Command), that is powered by Preservation's investiture. 

Spoiler

[deleted]

Given Brandon's answer to a block of Cheese stopping a shardblade, how does the last clap work?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'll admit, I've been considering the cheese question since it was asked.

I'm not sure if it has to be cheese. But any object that is sufficiently thick but also sufficiently pliable that it's going to press down on the blade while it's cutting IS going to create drag on the blade.

The Blade does, by necessity of my understanding of the relevant physics, need to be able to vaporize a tiny bit of matter into Investiture while cutting, in order to create space for the Blade to continue to slide through. This is related to why it doesn't cut things with souls.

<snip for length>

General Reddit 2022 (March 19, 2022)

The bond I was talking about was the one formed by an Allomancer controlling a Hemalurgic Construct, which was specifically named to be a bond (of some type) and persists even when no metals are available or being burned. Summarized:

• Nahel Bond - the bond of Realmic Transition (a cognitive entity bonds to a physical entity and is pulled closer to the PR in echange for <effect>)
  • Radiant Bond
  • Singer Bond
  • Rosharan Lifeform Nahel Bonds (Skyeels, Greatshells, Rhyshadium, etc)
• Luhel Bond - Bond of Physical Transition (an entity in a Luhel Bond receives "matter", likely through a version of Elsecalling that transitions that matter through some unknown SR shenanigans, in exchange for <effect>)
  • Sand Mastery - The Sand received water from the Sand Master thorugh the bond (but no water is seen moving between them in the PR, hence the SR Elsecalling theory moving the matter without crossing intervening space) and the Sand Master gains some control of the sand and RSPs
    • RSP - RequiredSecondaryPowers - as seen after Kenton overmasters the second time
  • Sprouters - a Luhel Bond with some spores (e. g. Midnight) trades control for water
• Unnamed Bond - The proposed third bond occurs when emotion is lapped against a cognitive Identity resulting in a measure of influence (up to and including control when the bond is strong enough); but is not maintained by kinetic investiture or matter transference after the bond has been formed
  • Seen in Allomantic control of Hemalurgic Constructs, as well as Ruin's influence and control with mad/spiked people
  • Possibly (at least part) of the mechanism on which Nightblood influences bonded people
  • Possibly part of the bond used by Father Machine to control the Nightmares, since we see that Liyun's bonds force her back to her role each time she gets free as a Nightmare

Edited May 1 by Treamayne
SPAG/Example

[Immortal Platypus he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I'm guessing you mean this one:

Spoiler

Edited for content relevance and length 
Argent
There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson
It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean [using] Breaths [to] Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer.

 

it could be. I saw that one but didn't read it all the way through  but also the part right after the bolded part "Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened."

I thought I saw one at some point that said a little more specifically that Awakening is a general mechanic and not a Nalthian one, but maybe I'm misremembering.