Yata Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Why are there multiple magic systems of Sel? (i.e. AonDor, Forgery) Well it isn't a strange things in the Cosmere in a Shardworld with more than a single Shard. But about Sel there is a WoB about AonDor,Forgery,Bloodsealing,Dharkor and Chainshan that are actually just one system that manifested itself in different way in different regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 The only way I can wrap my mind around the concept is that it's a bit like Allomancy, and the Elantrians, Forgers, Monks of Dakhor, etc. are all 'Mistings' Correct me if my interpretation is off. I'm not claiming it's the same thing, just similar principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 The only way I can wrap my mind around the concept is that it's a bit like Allomancy, and the Elantrians, Forgers, Monks of Dakhor, etc. are all 'Mistings' Correct me if my interpretation is off. I'm not claiming it's the same thing, just similar principle. mmmmm quite yes, it's a strange example because there isn't anything similar of a "Mistborn" on Sel. But your example is probably the closest thing that i can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightness Enna Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I've got a few questions about the Dor... 1: In what realm does the Dor work? I'm assuming it's investiture, but I keep getting confused. It kind of feels like a spiritual realm kind of thing, but... 2: What happens when you draw an Aon? The way I've got it in my head right now is that the Elantrian kind of rips a hole between the realms, letting the investiture come through and power it. 3: What happens after the Aon is... um, done (aaah, words)? There are some that stay for a while, like Ashe, which can provide light, but others that disappear straight after they're drawn, leaving only the effect. Does the "hole" seal up? Can it be sealed imperfectly? Or am I just thinking about this all wrong? And a little more randomly, 4: What effect would Aon Omi have on the Hoed, right after you can draw (ineffectual) Aons but the Elantrians are still "fallen"? (For reference... Omi on Coppermind) Thanks! These have been bothering me for a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I've got a few questions about the Dor... 1: In what realm does the Dor work? I'm assuming it's investiture, but I keep getting confused. It kind of feels like a spiritual realm kind of thing, but... 2: What happens when you draw an Aon? The way I've got it in my head right now is that the Elantrian kind of rips a hole between the realms, letting the investiture come through and power it. 3: What happens after the Aon is... um, done (aaah, words)? There are some that stay for a while, like Ashe, which can provide light, but others that disappear straight after they're drawn, leaving only the effect. Does the "hole" seal up? Can it be sealed imperfectly? Or am I just thinking about this all wrong? And a little more randomly, 4: What effect would Aon Omi have on the Hoed, right after you can draw (ineffectual) Aons but the Elantrians are still "fallen"? (For reference... Omi on Coppermind) Thanks! These have been bothering me for a little while. I would like to point out that investiture transcends all three realms, so it wouldn't be passing from one to another. Aons just act as a kind of focus for investiture. That's about all I can answer, the magic system I'm least acquainted with is AonDor, but I hope I gave you a better understanding of Realmatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I've got a few questions about the Dor... 1: In what realm does the Dor work? I'm assuming it's investiture, but I keep getting confused. It kind of feels like a spiritual realm kind of thing, but... 2: What happens when you draw an Aon? The way I've got it in my head right now is that the Elantrian kind of rips a hole between the realms, letting the investiture come through and power it. 3: What happens after the Aon is... um, done (aaah, words)? There are some that stay for a while, like Ashe, which can provide light, but others that disappear straight after they're drawn, leaving only the effect. Does the "hole" seal up? Can it be sealed imperfectly? Or am I just thinking about this all wrong? And a little more randomly, 4: What effect would Aon Omi have on the Hoed, right after you can draw (ineffectual) Aons but the Elantrians are still "fallen"? (For reference... Omi on Coppermind) Thanks! These have been bothering me for a little while. 1- The Dor works like all the Investiture through all three realm but the Dor itself is located in the Cognitive Realm (quite strange because the Shard's power usually is in the Spiritual. 2- The Dor "press" from the Cognitive to the Physical Realm always. An Elantrian may create "exit" to the Dor and programming it through the right form (Aon). 3- The Aon itself (along with all the modificators) has a "time of living" threfore, simply is closed when the times come and the Dor stop his flux. 4- To be honest I don't know but I suppose that be in the middle of the trasformation stop any kind of direct effect of the Dor. Because we know that became an Elantrian change a little also your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightness Enna Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I would like to point out that investiture transcends all three realms, so it wouldn't be passing from one to another. Aons just act as a kind of focus for investiture. That's about all I can answer, the magic system I'm least acquainted with is AonDor, but I hope I gave you a better understanding of Realmatics. 1- The Dor works like all the Investiture through all three realm but the Dor itself is located in the Cognitive Realm (quite strange because the Shard's power usually is in the Spiritual. 2- The Dor "press" from the Cognitive to the Physical Realm always. An Elantrian may create "exit" to the Dor and programming it through the right form (Aon). 3- The Aon itself (along with all the modificators) has a "time of living" threfore, simply is closed when the times come and the Dor stop his flux. 4- To be honest I don't know but I suppose that be in the middle of the trasformation stop any kind of direct effect of the Dor. Because we know that became an Elantrian change a little also your mind. Thanks very much! I think I get it now, especially after researching a little bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Tell me everything we know for certain about the Shaod and how Elantrians are initiated. I'm working on a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 It sometimes happens to people with Aonic blood. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 It sometimes happens to people with Aonic blood. That's it. Ok, good. I saw many posts saying, as if it were canon, that you had to have a great devotion towards something to have the shard take you. Thanks for the confirmation that that was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I believe that it is the case, but it is not canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I believe that it is the case, but it is not canon. I personally don't buy that myself. Maybe it would have been like that if Devotion was still alive and kicking, but Odium saw fit to make her otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Shards tend to fall back on their intent when there isn't a mind controlling it, though. I doubt the selection of Aonic people to become Elantrians is purely random, it doesn't fit with the rest of the cosmere. Edit: For more info, you might want to look at this thread. Edited December 4, 2015 by EagleOfTheForestPath 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 One way or another, this is a question that could potentially have its own thread, and I believe that for this thread's purpose, we have sufficiently covered the topic. If anybody wants to start or revive a thread on this, I will see you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I personally don't buy that myself. Maybe it would have been like that if Devotion was still alive and kicking, but Odium saw fit to make her otherwise. Raoden, while in the Shardpool, hears a voice. Devotion might be dead, but nothing says there's not a Cognitive Shadow. (In fact, there should be a Cognitive Shadow.) And even so, Devotion doesn't have to be alive for a magic system involving her Investiture to require devotion in the same way that Hemalurgy requires ruin, or Surgebinding requires you to be honorable. (Yeah, Intents aren't ALWAYS required like that, but I'm just trying to stress that Devotion need not be alive if Elantrians require devotion.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Raoden, while in the Shardpool, hears a voice. Devotion might be dead, but nothing says there's not a Cognitive Shadow. (In fact, there should be a Cognitive Shadow.) And even so, Devotion doesn't have to be alive for a magic system involving her Investiture to require devotion in the same way that Hemalurgy requires ruin, or Surgebinding requires you to be honorable. (Yeah, Intents aren't ALWAYS required like that, but I'm just trying to stress that Devotion need not be alive if Elantrians require devotion.) I concur full heartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Question:We have some WoB about "If on a Shardworld there is a single shard, it generate a single Magic-System, with more than one shard there is multiple Magic System" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Question: We have some WoB about "If on a Shardworld there is a single shard, it generate a single Magic-System, with more than one shard there is multiple Magic System" ? Two WoBs: Chaos Let's say hypothetically we get Ruin, Preservation, and Endowment to create a planet. Would there be *more* magic systems due to Endowment's involvement (think permutations), or would this specifically not work at all? Brandon Sanderson It could work. There is the potential for more magic systems. (source) Question Feruchemy is the "balance" between Ruin and Preservation. Would any combination of Shards create a "balance" magic, so to speak, or are only certain Shards compatible? Brandon Sanderson Feruchemy ended up being a balance system, because of how polar Ruin and Preservation were. Any world with at least two Shards will result in a similar phenomenon. Question Like Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Like Roshar. There is something like that going on there. (source) Note on the last that it doesn't mean two Shards gives you MORE than one system, necessarily. It just means there's going to be a balance system. For example, on Sel, this balance system is the planet's single magic system using the Dor - Dominion and Devotion don't get systems of their own, like Ruin and Preservation did. I've theorized on this, and some implications, here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/14925-intent-meshing-how-magic-systems-arise/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Thanks Moogle Also if it doesn't solve my problem.I want to use this WoB as "proof" with my theory about exactly Devotion and Dominion. But your interpretation of the WoB (that I am not sure to agree) can't be usefull to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I want to use this WoB as "proof" with my theory about exactly Devotion and Dominion. But your interpretation of the WoB (that I am not sure to agree) can't be usefull to it. What's your theory? We've got a WoB on Sel just having the one system, if you're trying to theorize that Sel has multiple different systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 What's your theory? We've got a WoB on Sel just having the one system, if you're trying to theorize that Sel has multiple different systems. My theory was about the "Devotion and Dominion that now are actually a unique Shard" (that was frendly called "Unity"). The Fact that Sel has one single System may serve as "proof" that now there is no more Devotion or Dominion and the Dor is a new (and Single) Shard-Entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Harmony is around and there's still the same number of magic systems on Scadrial... I don't think there being one system on Sel is good evidence either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 But at the end of HoA is stated that Sazed keep the 2 power separated. And now Harmony has "two set of power" as if He has both Preservation and Ruin not a new "shard". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Oh, I see what you mean. I still don't agree, but there's not enough evidence to say one way or another. One WoB mentions that if Sazed were to die, he would drop Harmony (ie. the two Shards have intermingled so much that they are considered one Cognitively). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Oh, I see what you mean. I still don't agree, but there's not enough evidence to say one way or another. One WoB mentions that if Sazed were to die, he would drop Harmony (ie. the two Shards have intermingled so much that they are considered one Cognitively). Maybe to the true "merging" it takes a very long time, and Harmony is still "borning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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