Awakened Powersuits for War

[Trusk'our he/him]

I made a post about a day ago in the Warbreaker forum that talked about ways to collect Breath, and the topic of war and Breath came up.

Anyway, I was thinking; didn't Vasher Awaken two sets of clothing to help him fight when he only had the first Heightening in Warbreaker?

Maybe if you were to make a leather bodysuit that mimicked human musculature and possibly the human skeletal structure you could Awaken it for even cheaper than 25 Breaths.

If you add heavy armor and sledgehammers on top of that, you basically have bootleg Shardlate that's relatively cheap to make, and may possibly be recoverable even if the weilder dies, provided that the general was the one to Awaken it for the (you may be able to give a Command to let other Lieutenants do it as well, assuming you die in the conflict).

[Treamayne]

23 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I made a post about a day ago in the Warbreaker forum that talked about ways to collect Breath, and the topic of war and Breath came up.

Anyway, I was thinking; didn't Vasher Awaken two sets of clothing to help him fight when he only had the first Heightening in Warbreaker?

More like Third Heightening (it was all of Vivenna's storage), and a very complex Command (perfected through practice). Warbreaker Ch 56:

Spoiler

“You need to run,” Vasher said, wiggling his hands free from their rope bonds. “Get back to your people, tell them not to fight the Lifeless. They need to flee through the northern passes, hide in the highlands. Do not fight or bring other kingdoms into the war.”

Vivenna glanced back at Denth, who was smacking Tonk Fah back to consciousness. Then she closed her eyes. “Your Breath to mine,” she said, drawing back the Breath from her hand tassels, adding it to the large amount she still held from before. She reached out, placing her hand on Vasher.

“Vivenna…” he said.

“My life to yours,” she said. “My Breath become yours.”

Her world became a thing of dullness. Beside her, Vasher gasped, then began to convulse at the bestowal of Breath. Denth stood up, spinning.

“You do it, Vasher,” Vivenna whispered. “You’ll be far better at it than I will be.”

<Snip>

Unfortunately, there were a lot of men. Maybe too many to fight. Vasher cursed, spinning between them, dropping another one. He bent down, slapping his hand against the waist of a fallen soldier, touching both shirt and pants, looping his finger around the colored inner undershirt.

“Fight for me, as if you were me,” he Commanded, draining the man’s undershirt completely grey. Vasher spun, blocking a sword strike. Another came from the side, and another. He couldn’t block them all.

A sword flashed in the air, blocking a weapon that would have hit Vasher. The dead man’s shirt and trousers, having pulled themselves free, stood holding a blade. They struck, as if controlled by an invisible person inside, blocking and attacking with skill.

Annotatins to Ch 56:

 

Quote

I don’t know if you remember that Vivenna put a whole bunch of Breath into Tonk Fah’s cloak accidentally, but it happened during the time when she found Parlin. It might be just a little bit of a stretch here, as I don’t know that people will remember it. As I consider it, I should have mentioned what she’d done one more time.

So, she had the breath she used to awken her cloak, shirt and leggings (ch 53), plus what she recovered from Tonk Fah's cloak, and gave all of that to Vasher before he fell from the window. 

I feel like the "fight for me as if you were me" would only be marginally useful to most people (and would need about a century of practicee to perfect), and separate awakenings like Vi does in Ch 53 would generally be more useful and allow a broader application base, as the situation needs:

Spoiler

It was frightening, but she knew it was true. She stood up and walked over to Vasher’s pack. She pulled out a wrinkled overshirt and a pair of leggings. Both had tassels hanging from the cuffs.

Vivenna put them on. Vasher’s spare cloak followed. It smelled like him, and was cut—like his other one—into the vague shape of a man. She understood, at least, one of the reasons his clothing looked so tattered.

She pulled out a couple of colorful handkerchiefs. “Protect me,” she Commanded the cloak, imagining it grabbing people who tried to attack her. She placed a hand on the sleeve of the shirt.

“Upon call,” she Commanded, “become my fingers and grip that which I must.” She’d only heard Vasher give the Command a couple of times, and she still wasn’t quite sure how to visualize what she wanted the shirt to do. She imagined the tassels closing around her hands as she had seen them do for Vasher.

She Awakened the leggings, commanding them to strengthen her legs. The leg tassels began to twist, and she raised each foot in turn, letting the tassels wrap around the bottoms. Her stance felt firmer, the leggings pulled tight against her skin.

Finally, she tied on the sword Vasher had given her. She still didn’t know how to use it, though she could hold it properly. It felt right to bring it. Then she left.

 

Edited March 12 by Treamayne
Clarity / SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

54 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

More like Third Heightening (it was all of Vivenna's storage), and a very complex Command (perfected through practice). Warbreaker Ch 56:

Woops.

Hmm, maybe you could still make an Awakened suit for around 25 Breaths, as Vasher Awakened his cloak with only that amount, and it was only vaguely shaped like a person.

57 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I feel like the "fight for me as if you were me" would only be marginally useful to most people (and would need about a century of practicee to perfect), and separate awakenings like Vi does in Ch 53 would generally be more useful and allow a broader application base, as the situation needs:

Actually, I was thinking more along the line of the suit augmenting speed, strength, and stamina, like when Vasher Awakened his pants and shirt.

I was mostly trying to use the full set of clothing as an example for the number of Breaths used in the creation of the suit.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

More like Third Heightening (it was all of Vivenna's storage), and a very complex Command (perfected through practice). Warbreaker Ch 56:

  Hide contents

“You need to run,” Vasher said, wiggling his hands free from their rope bonds. “Get back to your people, tell them not to fight the Lifeless. They need to flee through the northern passes, hide in the highlands. Do not fight or bring other kingdoms into the war.”

Vivenna glanced back at Denth, who was smacking Tonk Fah back to consciousness. Then she closed her eyes. “Your Breath to mine,” she said, drawing back the Breath from her hand tassels, adding it to the large amount she still held from before. She reached out, placing her hand on Vasher.

“Vivenna…” he said.

“My life to yours,” she said. “My Breath become yours.”

Her world became a thing of dullness. Beside her, Vasher gasped, then began to convulse at the bestowal of Breath. Denth stood up, spinning.

“You do it, Vasher,” Vivenna whispered. “You’ll be far better at it than I will be.”

<Snip>

Unfortunately, there were a lot of men. Maybe too many to fight. Vasher cursed, spinning between them, dropping another one. He bent down, slapping his hand against the waist of a fallen soldier, touching both shirt and pants, looping his finger around the colored inner undershirt.

“Fight for me, as if you were me,” he Commanded, draining the man’s undershirt completely grey. Vasher spun, blocking a sword strike. Another came from the side, and another. He couldn’t block them all.

A sword flashed in the air, blocking a weapon that would have hit Vasher. The dead man’s shirt and trousers, having pulled themselves free, stood holding a blade. They struck, as if controlled by an invisible person inside, blocking and attacking with skill.

Annotatins to Ch 56:

 

So, she had the breath she used to awken her cloak, shirt and leggings (ch 53), plus what she recovered from Tonk Fah's cloak, and gave all of that to Vasher before he fell from the window. 

I feel like the "fight for me as if you were me" would only be marginally useful to most people (and would need about a century of practicee to perfect), and separate awakenings like Vi does in Ch 53 would generally be more useful and allow a broader application base, as the situation needs:

  Reveal hidden contents

It was frightening, but she knew it was true. She stood up and walked over to Vasher’s pack. She pulled out a wrinkled overshirt and a pair of leggings. Both had tassels hanging from the cuffs.

Vivenna put them on. Vasher’s spare cloak followed. It smelled like him, and was cut—like his other one—into the vague shape of a man. She understood, at least, one of the reasons his clothing looked so tattered.

She pulled out a couple of colorful handkerchiefs. “Protect me,” she Commanded the cloak, imagining it grabbing people who tried to attack her. She placed a hand on the sleeve of the shirt.

“Upon call,” she Commanded, “become my fingers and grip that which I must.” She’d only heard Vasher give the Command a couple of times, and she still wasn’t quite sure how to visualize what she wanted the shirt to do. She imagined the tassels closing around her hands as she had seen them do for Vasher.

She Awakened the leggings, commanding them to strengthen her legs. The leg tassels began to twist, and she raised each foot in turn, letting the tassels wrap around the bottoms. Her stance felt firmer, the leggings pulled tight against her skin.

Finally, she tied on the sword Vasher had given her. She still didn’t know how to use it, though she could hold it properly. It felt right to bring it. Then she left.

 

I am really curious how that "fight for me as if you were me" would work if the awakener was also some form of invested being?  

If you were a pewter arm or tapping a large amount of speed or fortune while making that command would the clothing follow the command to move and act the way you could while tapping or burning your metals or just your base state?  

Edit: @Trusk'our what about a kandra with potency? Or any hemalurgic spikes altering the base stats?  Do you think that the clothing would work better for a kandra or even a human with iron spikes granting increased strength and speed? 

Edited March 12 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Anyway, I was thinking; didn't Vasher Awaken two sets of clothing to help him fight when he only had the first Heightening in Warbreaker?

No, he had almost a full amount of Breaths from Vivenna at that time. Around 600 Breaths.

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

So, she had the breath she used to awken her cloak, shirt and leggings (ch 53), plus what she recovered from Tonk Fah's cloak, and gave all of that to Vasher before he fell from the window. 

No, she recovered Breaths from Tonk Fah's cloak AFTER she gave Breaths to Vasher - that's why Vasher fell out of a window, she used those Breaths to Awaken the cloak again. I would also subtract Breaths required for Awakening 2 ropes she threw just a moment ago - she didn't recover them. ch 56:

Quote

She tossed the rope at him, threw the other at Tonk Fah, then dashed into the room.
[...]
Then she closed her eyes. “Your Breath to mine,” she said, drawing back the Breath from her hand tassels, adding it to the large amount she still held from before. She reached out, placing her hand on Vasher.
“Vivenna . . .” he said.
“My life to yours,” she said. “My Breath become yours.”
[...]
She looked back at Tonk Fah, his cloak still touching her cheek. “Your Breath to mine,” she said.
She felt a sudden, welcoming burst of Breath.
“Huh?” Tonk Fah said.
“Nothing,” she said. “Just . . . Attack and grab Denth!” Command made, visualization made, the cloak began to quiver.
[...]
And Vasher was shoved backward out the window.

 

1 hour ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

If you add heavy armor and sledgehammers on top of that, you basically have bootleg Shardlate that's relatively cheap to make, and may possibly be recoverable even if the weilder dies, provided that the general was the one to Awaken it for the (you may be able to give a Command to let other Lieutenants do it as well, assuming you die in the conflict).

You can Awaken clothes with the "become my arms/legs" Command, but also Awaken ropes with that Command as well - just like Vasher did when falling. You would have double the amount of strength, much better power armor - if they can work together, but I guess that is just a matter of practice. But that won't stop attacks like a Shardplate does, even with a cloak Awaken to "protect you." 

Oh, but I see now. You don't want to have a good Shardplate, you want minions that will fight for you. I guess it would be fairly cheap - it depends if clothes would be able to move in heavy armor, or if they would require additional Breaths to compensate for their lack of strength - like with Kalad’s Phantoms. Truthfully, just Awaken a few Kalad Phantoms, you can reclaim some Breaths if needed and they are almost invincible - you can cut them like a fabric. 

42 minutes ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Actually, I was thinking more along the line of the suit augmenting speed, strength, and stamina, like when Vasher Awakened his pants and shirt.

I was mostly trying to use the full set of clothing as an example for the number of Breaths used in the creation of the suit.

Oh, so you want a suit. Well that's not that cheap. Those three Commands protected me, became my fingers/legs, took most of Vivenna 600 Breaths (quoted by @Treamayne), so much that she had to remove her Breaths from her trousers and cloak to Awaken a pair of ropes. ch 56: 

Quote

Surprised at her own determination, she quietly recovered the Breath from her cloak and her leggings. She Awakened a pair of rope pieces, telling them to grab when thrown.

Maybe wearing a onesie would be better - one thing in the shape of a full person, give it a hair and it's even cheaper, but you have to combine two separate Commands into one, which would be harder (something like "give me strength and move as I must"). Still quite expensive, those are very complicated Commands. You won't get it as cheap as Vasher's 25 Breaths for "protect me."

[Treamayne]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, she recovered Breaths from Tonk Fah's cloak AFTER she gave Breaths to Vasher - that's why Vasher fell out of a window, she used those Breaths to Awaken the cloak again. I would also subtract Breaths required for Awakening 2 ropes she threw just a moment ago - she didn't recover them.

Of course, the onle thing I did not double check while reviewing the epub. . . 

Thanks again. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I am really curious how that "fight for me as if you were me" would work if the awakener was also some form of invested being?  

If you were a pewter arm or tapping a large amount of speed or fortune while making that command would the clothing follow the command to move and act the way you could while tapping or burning your metals or just your base state?  

Edit: @Trusk'our what about a kandra with potency? Or any hemalurgic spikes altering the base stats?  Do you think that the clothing would work better for a kandra or even a human with iron spikes granting increased strength and speed? 

Well, we do know that it's not outside the realm of possibility that a Seeker who was also an Awakener could Command their creations to function to utilize Bronzesense, or at least be able to interpret instructions based on special senses from the Awakener, so maybe a Kandra with the Blessing of Potency could make clothes fight for them be stronger than the norm, though even if possible I'm certain it would require an extra injection of Investiture- more Breaths during the Awakening process- to make it work.

So I'd give a soft yes as to the possibility of this.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2/#e145

Questioner

In Awakening an object when you give it the sort of Command like, go get the keys, or something. How does that object perceive the world around it? Since it doesn't have standard human senses, how does it see? How does it touch?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not--

Moderator

Repeat the question.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh… go ahead.

Moderator

The question was, how do Awakened objects actually perceive the world.

Brandon Sanderson

…The closest correlation you have to this is how Inquisitors see.

Questioner

Okay, following up on that say, someone who has-- say someone with bronze who-- a bronze Misting managed to somehow get access to Breath and Awaken would he then be able to tell that object "Hey I sense this Allomancer over there, can you find it".

Brandon Sanderson

That is not outside the realm of possibility.

 

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Oh, but I see now. You don't want to have a good Shardplate, you want minions that will fight for you.

Yup! That way you could have a more mobile force of super strength heavily armored infantrymen.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

I guess it would be fairly cheap - it depends if clothes would be able to move in heavy armor, or if they would require additional Breaths to compensate for their lack of strength - like with Kalad’s Phantoms.

True. 

Vasher did state that in most cases you spend more Breath than necessary to Awaken something as its usually not human shaped, but Kalad's Phantoms are in direct contrast to this, as they needed an extra injection of Breath to truly function.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Oh, so you want a suit. Well that's not that cheap. Those three Commands protected me, became my fingers/legs, took most of Vivenna 600 Breaths (quoted by @Treamayne), so much that she had to remove her Breaths from her trousers and cloak to Awaken a pair of ropes. ch 56: 

What if it was really, really humanlike though? 

Assuming that the strength boost didn't require a significantly large amount of Investiture (which, as we established just before it's likely that it actually does, unfortunately), then if you were to make a suit that mimicked human anatomy, then it should be easier to Awaken, thus making it cheaper Breath wise.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Maybe wearing a onesie would be better - one thing in the shape of a full person,

Yeah, it would have to be in order to be Awakened properly. The "muscles" and such of the suit would all be woven together into the same object so as to function as a whole.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Still quite expensive, those are very complicated Commands. You won't get it as cheap as Vasher's 25 Breaths for "protect me."

Hmm, if it proved too expensive to perform the 25 Breath cost, perhaps it would be better to take your previous suggestion and add thicker, stronger ropes, forgoing some of the "humanity" of the suit to make something bigger, bulkier, and stronger. Something more like a Koloss-sized mech suit made primarily of coiled rope for maximum protection and power?

You'd have to drop your expectation for numbers on such a tactic, but you could have one or two really powerful Awakened juggernauts for your army. 

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Yup! That way you could have a more mobile force of super strength heavily armored infantrymen.

If you have plate armor, just make normal Lifeless - they are as invulnerable as it gets in plate armor. Give them cloaks with the Command "protect them" and they are even better. Expensive in gold, cheap in Breaths.

10 hours ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

What if it was really, really humanlike though? 

Vasher's cloth were already very human like, sure you can add hairs for a focus, but it would still be very expensive because Commands are really complicated. 

10 hours ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Hmm, if it proved too expensive to perform the 25 Breath cost, perhaps it would be better to take your previous suggestion and add thicker, stronger ropes, forgoing some of the "humanity" of the suit to make something bigger, bulkier, and stronger. Something more like a Koloss-sized mech suit made primarily of coiled rope for maximum protection and power?

You'd have to drop your expectation for numbers on such a tactic, but you could have one or two really powerful Awakened juggernauts for your army. 

I'm not really sure how it would work. At this point just make a few Kalad's Phantoms, they are still better and as expensive as you propose.

[Duxredux he/him]

Hm... the OP original idea is to see how effectively you can make Awakened minions from Type III Awakened objects? I think there's a few sliding scales to consider. Sure, most probably have this memorized but I'll throw out the Laws regarding Awakening out anyway. The Law of Biochromatic Parallelism and The Law of Comparability indicate that the closer a host is a living shape and form the easier it is to Awaken and that once Awakened they perform essentially the same function regardless of the amount of Breaths used. Awakening requires Breath, a valid Command, visualization, and color.

• First sliding scale is adjacency to life and retrievability of Breath. At one end of the scale is a fresh corpse ready to be made Lifeless with a single Breath, at the other is objects like rope that do not have the shape of life and can take on the order of hundreds of Breaths to Awaken. Now there should be an optimum where if you were to take a corpse and slowly modify it to no longer resemble life that eventually there would be a sweet spot where a minimal number of Breaths are used to Awaken the object and still have them be retrievable - assuming all other optimizations like using the Awakener's hair as a focus are already in use.  
• Second sliding scale is cost and durability.  At one end of the scale is one Breath Lifeless with many of the same failure points as the original deceased, at the other end is Nightblood who chips Honorblades. Basically, life can be fragile and the more steps removed from life the more flexibility you have to reduce failure points. A skeleton can be Awakened as a Lifeless and no longer has to worry about blood loss and severed muscles - but the bones still have to be fixed in place and cost more to Awaken. Awakened cloth can be much stronger than Lifeless muscle as well, so budget Lifeless isn't always better. The optimum is dependent on the expected opposing force. You'll prepare differently if you expect to fight regular soldiers, fliers, swords, or guns, etc. Life means organic and organic means carbon-based so in many cases post-Awakening fireproofing treatment seems prudent. Retrievability means nothing if the enemy captures the fallen Awakened clothing scraps or can fully destroy them and their Breaths.
• Third sliding scale is Command complexity. This next is hypothetical and unconfirmed but I think it makes sense. The concept is that Breath used to Awaken has two methods to remember and execute Commands - utilizing the mind of the deceased as is the case of the Lifeless, or the Investiture of the Breath itself gaining a small measure of autonomous intelligence. The more complex the Command and the closer to life the object has to behavior, I would guess the more Breaths are required when not using a deceased brain. Hence I would guess "Grab when Thrown" to need less Breaths than "Fight for me as if you were me". So due to the Law of Comparability, more Breath doesn't necessarily mean more strength, but I would guess more complex requires more Breath.
• Fourth sliding scale is quantity and quality. No surprises here, Breaths are a finite resource and making the call between 5 heavily enhanced Awakened fighters and 20 budget Awakened fighters is always a consideration - particularly depending on the average retrievability of the Breaths of fallen fighters.
• Fifth parameter is resource availability. If you only have five sets of armor and no corpses, then you might as well make 5 heavily enhanced fabric fighters even though in other circumstances a Lifeless army of 100 could be more effective.

I think you could make some pretty powerful soldiers this way and still have the majority of your Breaths be retrievable, but it would need much firmer numbers than what we have to know how effective this would be compared to other options for an Awakener. If your goal is to survive a major war and hopefully get back home with most of your 5th or 6th Heightening to live out your days indefinitely, then figuring out how to do it effectively without Lifeless is a worthwhile venture.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

11 hours ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

Well, we do know that it's not outside the realm of possibility that a Seeker who was also an Awakener could Command their creations to function to utilize Bronzesense, or at least be able to interpret instructions based on special senses from the Awakener, so maybe a Kandra with the Blessing of Potency could make clothes fight for them be stronger than the norm, though even if possible I'm certain it would require an extra injection of Investiture- more Breaths during the Awakening process- to make it work.

So I'd give a soft yes as to the possibility of this.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2/#e145

Questioner

In Awakening an object when you give it the sort of Command like, go get the keys, or something. How does that object perceive the world around it? Since it doesn't have standard human senses, how does it see? How does it touch?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not--

Moderator

Repeat the question.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh… go ahead.

Moderator

The question was, how do Awakened objects actually perceive the world.

Brandon Sanderson

…The closest correlation you have to this is how Inquisitors see.

Questioner

Okay, following up on that say, someone who has-- say someone with bronze who-- a bronze Misting managed to somehow get access to Breath and Awaken would he then be able to tell that object "Hey I sense this Allomancer over there, can you find it".

Brandon Sanderson

That is not outside the realm of possibility.

 

Yup! That way you could have a more mobile force of super strength heavily armored infantrymen.

True. 

Vasher did state that in most cases you spend more Breath than necessary to Awaken something as its usually not human shaped, but Kalad's Phantoms are in direct contrast to this, as they needed an extra injection of Breath to truly function.

What if it was really, really humanlike though? 

Assuming that the strength boost didn't require a significantly large amount of Investiture (which, as we established just before it's likely that it actually does, unfortunately), then if you were to make a suit that mimicked human anatomy, then it should be easier to Awaken, thus making it cheaper Breath wise.

Yeah, it would have to be in order to be Awakened properly. The "muscles" and such of the suit would all be woven together into the same object so as to function as a whole.

Hmm, if it proved too expensive to perform the 25 Breath cost, perhaps it would be better to take your previous suggestion and add thicker, stronger ropes, forgoing some of the "humanity" of the suit to make something bigger, bulkier, and stronger. Something more like a Koloss-sized mech suit made primarily of coiled rope for maximum protection and power?

You'd have to drop your expectation for numbers on such a tactic, but you could have one or two really powerful Awakened juggernauts for your army. 

I have held the imagery of an awakener with some form of spandex skin suit or the equivalent through more natural materials, rolled up and carried around in pockets. 

If you could pull one of these out and give it Vashers command I imagine it would do quite well at aiding you. Compound that with a talented grappler or wrestlers skillset and you could have great options for easily deployable fighting force.  

I say grappler and wrestler because this would be useful without needing to carry weapons for them and keep it more hush hush. Although it could be argued that it is the same end goal as throwing ropes to wrap up your enemies. Potential advantages of it though... you could do more for these suits to reduce cost than you can for a rope. 

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Hm... the OP original idea is to see how effectively you can make Awakened minions from Type III Awakened objects? I think there's a few sliding scales to consider. Sure, most probably have this memorized but I'll throw out the Laws regarding Awakening out anyway. The Law of Biochromatic Parallelism and The Law of Comparability indicate that the closer a host is a living shape and form the easier it is to Awaken and that once Awakened they perform essentially the same function regardless of the amount of Breaths used. Awakening requires Breath, a valid Command, visualization, and color.

• First sliding scale is adjacency to life and retrievability of Breath. At one end of the scale is a fresh corpse ready to be made Lifeless with a single Breath, at the other is objects like rope that do not have the shape of life and can take on the order of hundreds of Breaths to Awaken. Now there should be an optimum where if you were to take a corpse and slowly modify it to no longer resemble life that eventually there would be a sweet spot where a minimal number of Breaths are used to Awaken the object and still have them be retrievable - assuming all other optimizations like using the Awakener's hair as a focus are already in use.  
• Second sliding scale is cost and durability.  At one end of the scale is one Breath Lifeless with many of the same failure points as the original deceased, at the other end is Nightblood who chips Honorblades. Basically, life can be fragile and the more steps removed from life the more flexibility you have to reduce failure points. A skeleton can be Awakened as a Lifeless and no longer has to worry about blood loss and severed muscles - but the bones still have to be fixed in place and cost more to Awaken. Awakened cloth can be much stronger than Lifeless muscle as well, so budget Lifeless isn't always better. The optimum is dependent on the expected opposing force. You'll prepare differently if you expect to fight regular soldiers, fliers, swords, or guns, etc. Life means organic and organic means carbon-based so in many cases post-Awakening fireproofing treatment seems prudent. Retrievability means nothing if the enemy captures the fallen Awakened clothing scraps or can fully destroy them and their Breaths.
• Third sliding scale is Command complexity. This next is hypothetical and unconfirmed but I think it makes sense. The concept is that Breath used to Awaken has two methods to remember and execute Commands - utilizing the mind of the deceased as is the case of the Lifeless, or the Investiture of the Breath itself gaining a small measure of autonomous intelligence. The more complex the Command and the closer to life the object has to behavior, I would guess the more Breaths are required when not using a deceased brain. Hence I would guess "Grab when Thrown" to need less Breaths than "Fight for me as if you were me". So due to the Law of Comparability, more Breath doesn't necessarily mean more strength, but I would guess more complex requires more Breath.
• Fourth sliding scale is quantity and quality. No surprises here, Breaths are a finite resource and making the call between 5 heavily enhanced Awakened fighters and 20 budget Awakened fighters is always a consideration - particularly depending on the average retrievability of the Breaths of fallen fighters.
• Fifth parameter is resource availability. If you only have five sets of armor and no corpses, then you might as well make 5 heavily enhanced fabric fighters even though in other circumstances a Lifeless army of 100 could be more effective.

I think you could make some pretty powerful soldiers this way and still have the majority of your Breaths be retrievable, but it would need much firmer numbers than what we have to know how effective this would be compared to other options for an Awakener. If your goal is to survive a major war and hopefully get back home with most of your 5th or 6th Heightening to live out your days indefinitely, then figuring out how to do it effectively without Lifeless is a worthwhile venture.

My question here is that, thinking on line of a full body suit, could you stitch in the same scars you have to the body suit to reduce costs more or would they have to be cuts and tears where your scars are?  

You could easily infuse these suits with some of your own hair and even blood and allow them to dry.  With stitched scars you could have a body suit tailored to your dimensions and with scars resembling your own as well as soak a bit of blood into and around those scars.  I cant think of a better alternative to making something resemble the awakener than all of that... heck stitch the scars with your own hair. 

Back to @Trusk'our point, if you used this technique you could also armor your creations with aluminum for a lighter option that would also block magical attacks. While it would be more prone to deformation and perhaps offer less protection than typical steel armor to a lifeless, to the skinsuit I believe that the advantage of hollow fabric is that it would be less prone to losing mobility through damaged armor. 

My personal favorite army of protectors has to be a pack of whitespine lifeless. Pour hot wax over the lifeless and then as it hardens have them run and move around. What you would be left with is a perfectly fit coating of wax that could be soulcast into aluminum for a perfect, tight fit to make your lifeless army not only terrifying and coated in natural armor but now it is shardproof and investiture proof. 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Now there should be an optimum where if you were to take a corpse and slowly modify it to no longer resemble life that eventually there would be a sweet spot where a minimal number of Breaths are used to Awaken the object and still have them be retrievable - assuming all other optimizations like using the Awakener's hair as a focus are already in use.  

I don't think you can take a corpse and make it a type 3 entity - it's not just about how close they resemble life, but also how close they were to being alive. A corpse was very close, too close to life and Breaths will just cling to it. Warbreaker ch 47:

Quote

“Type Two BioChromatic entities, [...] Because of their organic host, their Breath clings to the body, and cannot be withdrawn once Invested."
[...]
“Creating Type Three BioChromatic entities is what we traditionally call ‘Awakening,’ ” Vasher continued. “That’s when you create a BioChromatic manifestation in an organic host that is far removed from having been alive. Cloth works the best, though sticks, reeds, and other plant matter can be used.”
“What about bones?” Vivenna asked.
“They’re strange,” Vasher said. “They take far more Breath to awaken than a body held together with flesh and aren’t as flexible as something like cloth. Still, Breath will stick to them fairly easily, since they were once alive and maintain the form of a living thing.”

 

[Duxredux he/him]

35 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I don't think you can take a corpse and make it a type 3 entity - it's not just about how close they resemble life, but also how close they were to being alive. A corpse was very close, too close to life and Breaths will just cling to it. Warbreaker ch 47:

 

Internet nuance is tricky. The core concept is less about the corpse and more that there should be an identifiable minimum retrievable Breath count to Awaken a Type III object based on the object's adjacency to life. By isolating other factors the idea is that once you have found that retrievable Breath minimum for whatever person shaped Awakenable object then you can start counting the cost for getting that general format and then adjusting it on all of the other sliding scales like material durability and Command complexity. If you can improve Breath utilization efficiency by even 4%, that adds up at even at the 4th Heightening. I'm assuming that all of the other optimizations that @Tamriel Wolfsbaine is listing off like scar placement, hair and blood as focuses, etc. are already in use.

For that matter, even just getting a Breath utilization comparison between linen, leather, wool, silk, human hair, etc. for otherwise identical squares of cloth could be quite useful. Knowing that linen requires X% more or less Breaths compared to leather is quite useful when Breath is the limited Invested resource.

[alder24]

5 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Internet nuance is tricky. The core concept is less about the corpse and more that there should be an identifiable minimum retrievable Breath count to Awaken a Type III object based on the object's adjacency to life. By isolating other factors the idea is that once you have found that retrievable Breath minimum for whatever person shaped Awakenable object then you can start counting the cost for getting that general format and then adjusting it on all of the other sliding scales like material durability and Command complexity. If you can improve Breath utilization efficiency by even 4%, that adds up at even at the 4th Heightening. I'm assuming that all of the other optimizations that @Tamriel Wolfsbaine is listing off like scar placement, hair and blood as focuses, etc. are already in use.

For that matter, even just getting a Breath utilization comparison between linen, leather, wool, silk, human hair, etc. for otherwise identical squares of cloth could be quite useful. Knowing that linen requires X% more or less Breaths compared to leather is quite useful when Breath is the limited Invested resource.

Sure, finding the cheapest material to optimize the cost is fine. But corpses will probably take your Breaths forever - I was just pointing that out. 

I don't agree that a placement of scars and visual stuff like that which make an object look closer to the Awakener matter at all. In my opinion it's all about making it as close as possible to looking like a person, but without those details, not a specific person. Vasher used 25 Breaths to both Awaken his cloak, which had the same scars placement and eye holes as in his body, and to Awaken a straw figure, which has none of those features. What mattered is that both of them had a human shape and a hair for a focus. But that's just my opinion. 

[Treamayne]

14 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Vasher used 25 Breaths to both Awaken his cloak, which had the same scars placement and eye holes as in his body, and to Awaken a straw figure, which has none of those features. What mattered is that both of them had a human shape and a hair for a focus. But that's just my opinion. 

While not used in that scene, my current theory is that the reason he has his scars and eye-holes marked on his cloak is to assist when he uses an ". . . as if you were me" command (since it more closely mirror's him, it helps that command function more cheaply). 

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

While not used in that scene, my current theory is that the reason he has his scars and eye-holes marked on his cloak is to assist when he uses an ". . . as if you were me" command (since it more closely mirror's him, it helps that command function more cheaply). 

I don't agree. He has a shirt for that, this is his cloak. Those are different arrangements of tassels. I interpret those scars on the cloak simply as he fought so many times in it that he got hit several times. But I do admit I might be wrong. 

Quote

The cloak jerked. Vasher leaned down. “Protect me,” he Commanded, and the cloak grew still. He stood, throwing it back on
[...]
Vasher placed a hand on the shoulder of his shirt, touching another patch of marble as he formed an image in his mind. “Upon call, become my fingers and grip,” he Commanded. The shirt quivered and a group of tassels curled up around his hand. Five of them, like fingers.

 

[Treamayne]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I don't agree. He has a shirt for that, this is his cloak. Those are different arrangements of tassels. I interpret those scars on the cloak simply as he fought so many times in it that he got hit several times. But I do admit I might be wrong. 

Yes. We have discussed this before. Both valid theories, pending more evidence or WoB.