Theory on why Vin avioded Hoid *Minor spoilers for WoK*

[Chaos he/him]

I'm moving this topic to General Theories, simply because it's treading too deeply into cosmere stuff that might spoil some people who've just read Mistborn.

[Aethling he/him]

Vin was still extremely skittish. She still had part of the street urchin in her. He might not have done anything directly, but the overall situation she was in at the time would have made her extremely cautious.

Afterall, would YOU want to go into a dark alley in a besieged city to meet someone that you had never met?

[Windrunner he/him]

I'm aware of that but at the moment it seems like Scadrial is the world he's investing the most in, except maybe Roshar.

Scadrial is one of the main three cosmere stories, along with The Way of Kings on Roshar and Dragonsteel on Yolen. The other Shardworlds are relatively unimportant to the overall story. That's why Hoid is focused on Scadrial, it's one of the more important worlds.

Vin was still extremely skittish. She still had part of the street urchin in her. He might not have done anything directly, but the overall situation she was in at the time would have made her extremely cautious.

Afterall, would YOU want to go into a dark alley in a besieged city to meet someone that you had never met?

In addition to this, Cett isn't even sure if Hoid and Slowswift are still loyal to him and he told Vin that. Plenty of reason for her to be cautious.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Windrunner

[Nesh he/him]

Scadrial is one of the main three cosmere stories, along with The Way of Kings on Roshar and Dragonsteel on Yolen. The other Shardworlds are relatively unimportant to the overall story. That's why Hoid is focused on Scadrial, it's one of the more important worlds.

In addition to this, Cett isn't even sure if Hoid and Slowswift are still loyal to him and he told Vin that. Plenty of reason for her to be cautious.

She'd just met with Slowshift though. Something about Hoid and the situation with him specifically made Vin uncomfortable, well much moreso.

[Windrunner he/him]

Yes, I was just explaining why she was jumpy. That and mysterious, subconscious, bronze sense could have been enough to freak her out so she would leave.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Windrunner

[Nesh he/him]

Yes, I was just explaining why she was jumpy. That and mysterious, subconscious, bronze sense could have been enough to freak her out so she would leave.

That's if Hoid was using any magic at all. Which I'm not ruling out but given how Hoid always seems to be in the right place at the right time and knowwho to go to to provide his aid on worlds. Well I assume he'd be keeping an eye on Vin in some fasion, especially since she was Preservation's chosen successor. He'd likely also know of the Hemalurgicnature of her earring and would know their was a chance he could sense his magic. If he was using magic, Lightweaving then it's likely he was trying to spook Vin for some reason.

[dyring]

Hoid seem fairly cautious, and who knows how long the seventeen shard have been following him, perhaps lightweawing lets you change your appearance, somewhat simular to how Raoden did when apearing as a dula in Elantris.

That would be a fairly minor magic, and possibly something Hoid would not want to drop, even if it meant a slight risk of someone sensing it.

Add to that, ok, he have alot of information, but him knowing that the earing Vin wears make her twice as good in bronce, and makes her perhaps the only non-inqisitor on Scadrial who´d have even a chance at sensing something, thats pushing it.

And even with twice the broncepower, she still(if that was the case) didnt know what, only that something didnt feel quite right.

All speculation true, but it got logic atleast.

[Nesh he/him]

Hoid seem fairly cautious, and who knows how long the seventeen shard have been following him, perhaps lightweawing lets you change your appearance, somewhat simular to how Raoden did when apearing as a dula in Elantris.

That would be a fairly minor magic, and possibly something Hoid would not want to drop, even if it meant a slight risk of someone sensing it.

Add to that, ok, he have alot of information, but him knowing that the earing Vin wears make her twice as good in bronce, and makes her perhaps the only non-inqisitor on Scadrial who´d have even a chance at sensing something, thats pushing it.

And even with twice the broncepower, she still(if that was the case) didnt know what, only that something didnt feel quite right.

All speculation true, but it got logic atleast.

Vin would be someone he paid special attention to, as she was the chosen successor of Preservation. As someone who deals exclusively in watching Shardworlds, making sure they don't go to heck and a handbasket, and watching Shardic activity. I'm pretty sure keeping an eye on Vin would be a priority. Which is is why I think he knew about the earring and Vin's personality.

[Windrunner he/him]

It's very likely he knew about her spike, and perhaps that's even what he intended to inform her of here. However, he may have not known Vin's base Allomantic strength. Sazed thinks she took in some of the mists when she young which made her a stronger Allomancer then she was at birth. Hoid may not have known that, and was unable to take her increased power level into account. He also may have never had anyone sense his magic before, he might not have even realized it was possible.

Also we know Hoid isn't infallible. He spent almost the whole time during WoA in the Terris mountains trying to find the Well. Rashek had him tricked too. As a matter of fact Vin figured it out first, Hoid never would have found it if he hadn't overheard Elend talking to Spook. The only way he managed to beat her there was through manipulating Shadesmar.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more likely it seems to me that Hoid was Lightweaving when Elend met him, altering his own appearance. There's no way Hoid looked Terris enough on his own that Elend didn't notice. Hoid probably just took the place of one of the Terris leaders, perhaps one that was killed during the Inquisitor attack on Tathingdwen. He could have slipped in like a kandra, disposing of the real man's body and pretending that he had never been killed. Or maybe he had just taken control when the Synod fell, and people were looking for stability and a leader. Either way I think he was Lightweaving to hide his appearance.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Windrunner

[Nesh he/him]

It's very likely he knew about her spike, and perhaps that's even what he intended to inform her of here. However, he may have not known Vin's base Allomantic strength. Sazed thinks she took in some of the mists when she young which made her a stronger Allomancer then she was at birth. Hoid may not have known that, and was unable to take her increased power level into account. He also may have never had anyone sense his magic before, he might not have even realized it was possible.

Also we know Hoid isn't infallible. He spent almost the whole time during WoA in the Terris mountains trying to find the Well. Rashek had him tricked too. As a matter of fact Vin figured it out first, Hoid never would have found it if he hadn't overheard Elend talking to Spook. The only way he managed to beat her there was through manipulating Shadesmar.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more likely it seems to me that Hoid was Lightweaving when Elend met him, altering his own appearance. There's no way Hoid looked Terris enough on his own that Elend didn't notice. Hoid probably just took the place of one of the Terris leaders, perhaps one that was killed during the Inquisitor attack on Tathingdwen. He could have slipped in like a kandra, disposing of the real man's body and pretending that he had never been killed. Or maybe he had just taken control when the Synod fell, and people were looking for stability and a leader. Either way I think he was Lightweaving to hide his appearance.

Here's a question though? If Hoid can hide his appearance so easily and worldhop, how is the 17th Shard tracking him so easily? Disturbances in the Shadesmar? Perhaps that third member of the 17th Shard the one that was with Galladon and Demoux is a Lightweaver and has some sort of Lightweaving broze equivalent so they can see through his disguise if they get in range? Of course I'm wondering why they recruited Galladon and Demoux? The two of them don't seem particularly user as worldhoppers to me. An Elantrian so far away from Elantris that AonDor would be useless an an atium Misting likely with no atium, or perhaps he does have some and he's saving it for a confrontation against Hoid?

If we could figure out why they recuit who they recuit that would give us a lot of info on this myserious group.

[Raven Wilder]

@Mistborn Jedi - That's one of the cleverest theories I've seen yet, and makes all sorts of sense.

As for what Vin saw him doing, it could have been Hoid acting all non-chalant (humming and what-not), which Ruin recognized as him being up to something, and so hyped up Vin's "this guy looks like he's up to something" instincts.

[Eri she/her]

Maybe he was humming something weird. Like an Allomantic rhythm (= one you sense with bronze). The rhythms can be universal and appear in many magic systems. I suppose some patterns are universal.

And if you study something long enough, you become kinda obsessed with it...

So, he may be humming some melody / rhythm she subconciously recognized as something a skaa informant couldn't know.

[lil_literalist he/him]

This is an awesome theory, although I've seen enough evidence to persuade me that it isn't true. But way to connect the dots!

Here's a question though? If Hoid can hide his appearance so easily and worldhop, how is the 17th Shard tracking him so easily? Disturbances in the Shadesmar? Perhaps that third member of the 17th Shard the one that was with Galladon and Demoux is a Lightweaver and has some sort of Lightweaving broze equivalent so they can see through his disguise if they get in range? Of course I'm wondering why they recruited Galladon and Demoux? The two of them don't seem particularly user as worldhoppers to me. An Elantrian so far away from Elantris that AonDor would be useless an an atium Misting likely with no atium, or perhaps he does have some and he's saving it for a confrontation against Hoid?

If we could figure out why they recuit who they recuit that would give us a lot of info on this myserious group.

In Elantris, Dilaf somehow dispels Raoden's illusion. It's possible that they may know of ways of doing this to any illusion.

We might just be reading too much into her reaction. Remember, she was going in little sleep, creeping around an encircled city, looking for an admitted spy, AND she had a history of being stalked by some mysterious creature. Under those circumstances, who wouldn't be a little jittery. She knew by this time that even the most powerful mistborn are not invulnerable, and she was used to living by her gut. It might have been something really serious or it might just have been a little normal human reaction. Unfortunately, we will never know unless Sanderson actually states it outright, which he will probably never do just to keep up the speculation.

This. The text says something like, "it's possible that nothing might have happened." Vin just sensed that something was out of the ordinary, and she didn't bother figuring out what. Sanderson's statement that she's "too observant for her own good" leads me to believe that this is simply Vin noting Hoid's irregularity (because he is pretty odd). If this was Ruin's influence, Vin wouldn't have to notice anything about Hoid. I think he would have had enough influence to make her leave anyway. Though now I'm curious what he might have said.

So is it really all that unlikely that Demoux got a hold of a spike and some atium?

Considering how religious Demoux is, with him knowing that the Inquisitors used spikes? It might not be as likely as you might think. But uh, apparently I missed something. Demoux is working for the 17th shard?

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Yep, somebody noticed that one of the 17th shard members in WoK had a scalp scar like Demoux's and then Brandon confirmed it at a signing.

[lil_literalist he/him]

Well in that case, I would be willing to bet that he doesn't have atium-compounding abilities, and that he maintains his age because of the same world-hopping activities that Hoid does. After all, Hoid probably wouldn't be able to compound atium or use lightweaving to keep himself young. And yet he still is. Why should we assume that Demoux is any different?

[Aeshdan he/him]

Is it possible that hoid was doing something to protect himself from Ruin and that is what triggered the spike?

[nikomis he/him]

Is it possible that hoid was doing something to protect himself from Ruin and that is what triggered the spike?

I wouldn't know what it would be, but I really like this concept.

[Satsuoni he/him]

Well, Vin was not the only one spooked by Hoid:

“I don’t like him,” Syl’s voice said suddenly, coming from behind. “He’s strange.”

Also, Hoid is EvIl.

So, he must be giving off something that sensitive beings can feel, like an aura of wrongness about him.

[Observer]

I'm leaning towards something Hoid was doing being the thing that spooked her. I like the theory that he was humming a "Bronzetune" as I'll call it. That would set off some subconscious alarm bells.

Did Vin have much experience with informants back in Camon's crew? Hoid was "Trusted" by Kelsier and Cett's standards, and that kind of thing takes a while to build. She may have met him before.

[Arachiel she/her]

Just found this on Coppermind under the Sliver page:

 

 

Being a Sliver has an influence on a person after the fact. There is a residue left behind in a person,^[2] which has many effects, one of which is that a person who is capable of noticing Investiture would be able to look at someone and tell that they are a Sliver^[3]

Vin avoids Hoid in book 3 after she held Preservation briefly at the Well, which makes her a Sliver (or once a Sliver). So, at this point, she can sense that certain people are different in some way, though of course, she doesn't know anything about "Investiture," slivers, or shards. So, she has this sense, which she attributes to her intuition, and because of this, she avoids Hoid. Does that mean that Hoid himself is a Sliver?

 

Expanding on what Mistborn_Jedi said earlier, this may also mean that the other person who had been looking for Hoid with Galladon and Demoux may be a Sliver as well. I'm not sure how long-distance that "sliver-sense" would be. I agree with what Mistborn_Jedi said, though, that Demoux and Galladon, one without atium, the other so far from Elantris, probably aren't too extraordinarily powerful unless they've obtained some new level of badassery since the end of their stories (which we have no way of knowing right now). This could be a possible answer to how those three are tracking Hoid despite his ability to disguise himself.

[hoidhunter he/him]

At the time this happened...Vin was had a hemo spike and was henceforth being influenced by Ruin.  Many of her gut feelings ("I need to find that Atium.") were the result of Ruin's manipulation.  Is it possible that Ruin himself did not want Vin speaking with Hoid? 

[navybrandt he/him]

I'm still of the belief that it was Hoid's humming that spooked Vin.  I'm not sure what about the humming spooked her though.  It could have been the tune or perhaps a musical magic system.  Could he have been worldsinging at the time?