Honorblades and extra abilities

[Lopens_Cousin]

On recent read through of Oathbringer, and the Stormfather tells Dalinar that the Honorblades can do things that men don’t currently understand. Maybe this refers to the ability to influence/establish the Oathpact? What else could the Honorblades do besides grant Surgebinding? Has there already been some discussion or theorizing on this?

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Lopens_Cousin said:

On recent read through of Oathbringer, and the Stormfather tells Dalinar that the Honorblades can do things that men don’t currently understand. Maybe this refers to the ability to influence/establish the Oathpact? What else could the Honorblades do besides grant Surgebinding? Has there already been some discussion or theorizing on this?

I'm guessing you mean this quote from OB Ch 16:

Spoiler

What will you do with it? the Stormfather asked as Dalinar entered the empty corridors. It is a weapon beyond parallel. The gift of a god. With it, you would be a Windrunner unoathed. And more. More that men do not understand, and cannot. Like a Herald, nearly.

“All the more reason,” Dalinar said, “to think very carefully before using it.

This likely references however the Honorblades work in the Oathpact and why the Heralds had to leave them behind at Aharietiam. However, since each Blade is a Splinter of Honor, it's possible that there is some other, unknown, access to Honor's Investiture the Blades may provide. 

[Lopens_Cousin]

11 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I'm guessing you mean this quote from OB Ch 16:

  Reveal hidden contents

What will you do with it? the Stormfather asked as Dalinar entered the empty corridors. It is a weapon beyond parallel. The gift of a god. With it, you would be a Windrunner unoathed. And more. More that men do not understand, and cannot. Like a Herald, nearly.

“All the more reason,” Dalinar said, “to think very carefully before using it.

This likely references however the Honorblades work in the Oathpact and why the Heralds had to leave them behind at Aharietiam. However, since each Blade is a Splinter of Honor, it's possible that there is some other, unknown, access to Honor's Investiture the Blades may provide. 

Yes that’s the quote, but did the Heralds *have* to leave them behind? Coppermind says that they did so because they didn’t feel worthy to carry them after abandoning the Oathpact. Nale and Ishar reclaiming their blades seem to support that there may not have been a requirement that they abandon them. Unless the reclaiming has had ramifications as yet unrevealed. 
 

Maybe the Stormfather saying they'd nearly become Heralds means that the Blades grant longevity or a degree of immortality. Hmmmm… maybe that’s how we get carryover characters between SA5 and SA6, if there’s a big time jump….

Edited March 3 by Lopens_Cousin

[alder24]

13 hours ago, Lopens_Cousin said:

On recent read through of Oathbringer, and the Stormfather tells Dalinar that the Honorblades can do things that men don’t currently understand. Maybe this refers to the ability to influence/establish the Oathpact? What else could the Honorblades do besides grant Surgebinding? Has there already been some discussion or theorizing on this?

One thing is that Honorblade doesn't require Oaths and the Nahel Bond to work. Next, Heralds had access to Honor's power directly from Honor, without any need for Stormlight and that's something Honorblade allowed them to do, or at least were a part of it. That's definitely one of the things the Stormfather meant.

Because they both use dangerous amounts of Stormlight (they are less efficient than Radiant bond) and they can allow to draw power directly from Honor, I wouldn't be surprised if they could quickly make its user into a Savant (just like Soulcasters do). The amount of power flowing through your soul would be pressing hard on it. And that would make you even more powerful.

We don't know how Honorblades connect to the Oathpact, or even what came first, we do know that one of the main reasons Heralds abandoned their blades was philosophical in nature. Both Nale and Ishar reclaimed their blades so it's not like they have to leave them behind. 

Spoiler

WindRunner88 (paraphrased)

So far during The Stormlight Archive we've seen that the spren bond appears to have some distinct advantages (i.e. armor, more efficient Stormlight consumption, access to a variety of weapons) over what Tanavast via the Oathpact provided the Heralds. With the exception of Nale, and the fact that the Heralds had no need for Stormlight, can you please tell me one way in which a Herald had a distinct advantage over a level 5 Radiant of their corresponding  order?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Rebirth. *pause* The Heralds had access to raw levels of power that no Radiant could obtain.

BookCon 2018 (June 1, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Steeldancer

The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence.

Steeldancer

Like Vin and Elend?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do.

Steeldancer

The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

When the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact, why did they believe they needed to leave their Honorblades behind as they disbanded? Did they know what would happen to their blades after they left them?

Brandon Sanderson

There's a couple things going on here. If you've read Way of Kings Prime, there is built, originally into the Honorblades, the ability to find other Honorblades by using them. This has not been canonized into the cosmere as it exists yet, but it is still a power that's in the back of my mind, it is most likely something you can access with the Honorblades: let you find the others. This is calling back to the old Fred Saberhagen Swords books, which were part of the inspiration for these. So one reason they would leave them behind, the lesser reason, is: they're supposed to go split up, and they don't want to see each other. They want to leave them behind, because it's like: "The others might be able to find me. We're going our separate ways. We are done."

But the greater reason, the canon reason, that you can cite is that idea of: "I am walking away from being a Herald. This was the gift I was given, and a representation of that gift I was given, that represents me standing up for humankind. And I am no longer willing to do that, so I have to give this thing up." And they all knew it. They didn't have to be told it, because they knew what they were doing meant they didn't deserve those anymore. Not in a magical sense, but in a sort of philosophical and moral sense.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

 

[Elite01]

I heard a theory that someone experienced with an honorblade could track down other honorblades through the Oathpact/connection magic. I think its supported by the idea that they left their blades behind. Could be a mix of being unworthy/you don't want the other heralds to find you. Its not as dramatic as whatever the Stormfather is probably referring to. 

[alder24]

18 minutes ago, Elite01 said:

I heard a theory that someone experienced with an honorblade could track down other honorblades through the Oathpact/connection magic. I think its supported by the idea that they left their blades behind. Could be a mix of being unworthy/you don't want the other heralds to find you. Its not as dramatic as whatever the Stormfather is probably referring to. 

In the WoK Prime Honorblade had this ability, but in the current, canon version this is not possible anymore.

Spoiler

R'Shara

Is a Herald being able to sense where the other Honorblades are still canon?

Brandon Sanderson

No. It's possible I will decide to canonize it, but right now it is not. 

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

Edited March 6 by alder24

[Returned]

My thinking is based around the Honorblades being manifestations of Honor in the same way that Lerasium is a manifestation of Preservation. They're pieces of the raw, unlimited power of their Shards, but being in mortal hands allows that power to be used in ways that the Shards themselves are precluded from (though the things they can be used for may still be constrained by the Shards' natures). And we know that there are lots of ways a person could use Lerasium beyond just eating it to burn, even if we don't really know what those specific ways are or what they can do.

In this conception the Honorblades are sort of like Lerasium that you don't have to consume to gain powers, which suggests that you could use the Honorblades in ways beyond just gaining Surgebinding powers (while also getting the Surgebinding anyways). When you're holding a fragment of a deity but are not constrained by the same rules that bind Shards' actions, nor the overwhelming influence Shards have on their Vessels' minds, you're holding divine power without divine limitations.

Sort of like how Preservation couldn't harm someone for any reason, despite having effectively infinite power, but a person with Preservation's power (via being Mistborn, or even holding a Lerasium dagger or something) definitely could. Literally more power and capacity than a mortal can understand without the mind-expanding power of a Shard, but held in your hand without necessarily having any understanding at all.