Dilemma as Harmony

[Trusk'our he/him]

If you were Harmony at the beginning of TLM and you could have Marsh give a single Hemalurgic spike to Wax, Wayne, and Marasi each, which powers would you give them?

[Quantus he/him]

In that order: F-Steel, A-Gold, A-Chromium.  The first to would round each of them out with one of the most powerful Compounding combo's, and Leeching plays well into Marasi being a magic countermeasure that leans into the use of Ettmetal Grenades.  

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

I have long been confused about why Harmony doesn't seem able or willing to invest spikes for his agents to utilize directly. Aside from bringing them closer to himself spiritually (if they accept the gift) they would be more powerful and reliable without having to manually harvest the souls of others...

He seems to have Preservation's power to invest directly into allomancers, and it's implied that he has Ruin's ability to alter the content of text and copperminds through the words of founding. So...I fail to understand why he couldn't, if presented by the Kandra who are loyal to him with spikes at his perpendicularity, create tailor-made hemalurgic spikes of immense power with either blank, or hyper specific (so they can't be traded or reused), identity coding.

One or two fully loaded steel or brass spikes would've been almost as valuable as an honorblade in more than a few situations for the purpose of preserving Scadrial's harmony if they had been made available to the people who represent Harmony's boots on the ground.  so much hopelessness, helplessness, despair, and human trafficking could have been prevented.

If Harmony has zero control over hemalurgy as a magic system to do something like that, Era 4 scadrial might be a very dark and easily exploitable place.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, hwiles said:

I have long been confused about why Harmony doesn't seem able or willing to invest spikes for his agents to utilize directly. Aside from bringing them closer to himself spiritually (if they accept the gift) they would be more powerful and reliable without having to manually harvest the souls of others...

He seems to have Preservation's power to invest directly into allomancers, and it's implied that he has Ruin's ability to alter the content of text and copperminds through the words of founding. So...I fail to understand why he couldn't, if presented by the Kandra who are loyal to him with spikes at his perpendicularity, create tailor-made hemalurgic spikes of immense power with either blank, or hyper specific (so they can't be traded or reused), identity coding.

One or two fully loaded steel or brass spikes would've been almost as valuable as an honorblade in more than a few situations for the purpose of preserving Scadrial's harmony if they had been made available to the people who represent Harmony's boots on the ground.  so much hopelessness, helplessness, despair, and human trafficking could have been prevented.

If Harmony has zero control over hemalurgy as a magic system to do something like that, Era 4 scadrial might be a very dark and easily exploitable place.

It's probably a combination of his "no direct interference" policy combined with his difficulty to take any actions.

But if he could (would) do that, it would be pretty useful.

[Treamayne]

On 2/22/2024 at 3:55 PM, Trusk'our said:

If you were Harmony at the beginning of TLM and you could have Marsh give a single Hemalurgic spike to Wax, Wayne, and Marasi each, which powers would you give them?

I don't hate any of them enough to do something like that to them. I mean, what would you tell Wax?

"Here, please be a tacit accomplice to murder so you can be more powerful.
It's not like soul maiming has ever had bad effects, just look at Voldemort TLR Kar The Set Marsh. . . you've met him, he's a  great bloke."

TLM Spoilers:

Spoiler

Yes I know by the end of TLM Wax chooses to spike himself - making the (mostly informed) choice in the name of saving the basin is, in my opinion, rather different than somebody else effectively saying "You should do this, because 'Reasons'"

 

[alder24]

9 hours ago, hwiles said:

I have long been confused about why Harmony doesn't seem able or willing to invest spikes for his agents to utilize directly. Aside from bringing them closer to himself spiritually (if they accept the gift) they would be more powerful and reliable without having to manually harvest the souls of others...

For every action he takes there is a reaction. When he chooses to directly preserve, he needs to equally ruin as well. He's Harmony, Ruin and Preservation has to be equally expressed. He can't just make spikes that spill no blood because that would shift the balance towards Preservation. He already is unbalanced, he's becoming Discord.

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

27 minutes ago, alder24 said:

For every action he takes there is a reaction. When he chooses to directly preserve, he needs to equally ruin as well. He's Harmony, Ruin and Preservation has to be equally expressed. He can't just make spikes that spill no blood because that would shift the balance towards Preservation. He already is unbalanced, he's becoming Discord.

Honestly, I don't believe Sazed can become Discord, and will simply have to drop the Shards and be replaced or die and be replaced instead sadly...that said...is Discord always a bad thing?

My headcannon is that Scadrial is going to experience a massive explosion in the prevalence and popularity of jazz, swing-dancing, fast cars, and technological disruption/innovation whenever their next Hero of Ages is created/chosen/rises-up.

The lord of chaos doesn't have to rule with insanity or darkness; he or she could just as easily be a warped-yet-platinum-hearted artist with poor restraint against meddling and a knack for bending the rules in favor of the people they like...which still isn't fair, and does kinda count as outrightly discordant. 

[alder24]

26 minutes ago, hwiles said:

Honestly, I don't believe Sazed can become Discord, and will simply have to drop the Shards and be replaced or die and be replaced instead sadly...

He can:

Spoiler

Shallan's Ward

While Sazed holds Preservation and Ruin, could his intent change from Harmony to Discord?

Brandon Sanderson

It is possible.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

26 minutes ago, hwiles said:

that said...is Discord always a bad thing?

No. I think it will be a good thing for Scadrial. Sazed would be able to act, not all might agree with Sazed but I think it will spark an era of progress guided by Discord - probably an arms race during a cold war.

 TFE ch 8 epigraphs:

Quote

"His name shall be Discord, yet they shall love him for it."

However in which direction his Discord would be shifted - will it be towards Ruin because there is more Ruin than Preservation in him, or will it be towards Preservation because Sazed chooses to Preserve more than to Ruin? That might define how Sazed will act in the future - not that Ruinous Discord would be a bad thing, just more... deadly.

Spoiler

 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

However in which direction his Discord would be shifted - will it be towards Ruin because there is more Ruin than Preservation in him, or will it be towards Preservation because Sazed chooses to Preserve more than to Ruin? That might define how Sazed will act in the future - not that Ruinous Discord would be a bad thing, just more... deadly.

I think "shifted" toward Ruin or Preservation might not be the best way to look at the difference between the persona of Harmony and the persona of Discord.

Quote

The point is Harmony, creating a way for as many as possible to make their own choices.

—Harmony's stated interest^[6]

Honestly...this definition of Harmony could apply equally well to Discord in my opinion, the difference is whether the recipients of the gifted freedom of choice work together harmoniously (which, in a literal interpretation could be like many complimentary voices overlaid to form natural cords), or if they work together independently/asymmetrically (IE: in competition with each other or with many potentially extreme disparate elements juxtaposed).

I concede that it sounds confirmed that Harmony could simply "invert" himself to Discord though it almost feels like cheating. For some reason I want to imagine them both as freedom loving polar opposites; the former dedicated to human development through the encouragement of cooperation, collaboration, and restraint...and the latter a chaotic counterpart willing to engage the forces of competition and conflict to keep humanity liberated even if it means improvising and tipping scales manually.

I feel like Sazed is usually very serious, methodical, and reserved...I'd like for Discord to be funny in a dark way, unpredictable and a little unhinged at times, and way too free with their thoughts.

Scadrial deserves a fun dark god, they've been through a lot of tyranny and restraint.

[alder24]

11 minutes ago, hwiles said:

I think "shifted" toward Ruin or Preservation might not be the best way to look at the difference between the persona of Harmony and the persona of Discord.

Quote

The point is Harmony, creating a way for as many as possible to make their own choices.

—Harmony's stated interest[6]

Honestly...this definition of Harmony could apply equally well to Discord in my opinion, the difference is whether the recipients of the gifted freedom of choice work together harmoniously (which, in a literal interpretation could be like many complimentary voices overlaid to form natural cords), or if they work together independently/asymmetrically (IE: in competition with each other or with many potentially extreme disparate elements juxtaposed).

I concede that it sounds confirmed that Harmony could simply "invert" himself to Discord though it almost feels like cheating. For some reason I want to imagine them both as freedom loving polar opposites; the former dedicated to human development through the encouragement of cooperation, collaboration, and restraint...and the latter a chaotic counterpart willing to engage the forces of competition and conflict to keep humanity liberated even if it means improvising and tipping scales manually.

That's an interesting way to look at this. It makes a lot of sense. I like it. 

12 minutes ago, hwiles said:

I feel like Sazed is usually very serious, methodical, and reserved...I'd like for Discord to be funny in a dark way, unpredictable and a little unhinged at times, and way too free with their thoughts.

I don't think Sazed will change that much. Sazed doesn't like death and harm, but he understands they are necessary parts of human life and is willing to harm someone if that's needed (Wax) - and this is a path Discord will follow. Conflict and harm are necessities in human life.

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

That's an interesting way to look at this. It makes a lot of sense. I like it. 

...

That means I must be close to correct!

I am, unfortunately, the next hero of ages, and they shall hate to love me for it. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

10 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I don't hate any of them enough to do something like that to them. I mean, what would you tell Wax?

"Here, shove this 6" steel pole into your guts, it will make you feel stronger." 

But in all seriousness, I was mostly thinking of either Harmony using some of his Ruinous Investiture to either directly fuel their creation or Marsh recycling some of the Set's spikes that I'm certain they've collected as they've fought them over the years. . . 

I probably should have mentioned that in the original post, come to think of it.

On 2/22/2024 at 2:43 PM, Quantus said:

In that order: F-Steel, A-Gold, A-Chromium.  The first to would round each of them out with one of the most powerful Compounding combo's, and Leeching plays well into Marasi being a magic countermeasure that leans into the use of Ettmetal Grenades.  

Okay, what if they're using modern Hemalurgic spikes with barred access to Compounding?

[Quantus he/him]

5 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Okay, what if they're using modern Hemalurgic spikes with barred access to Compounding?

"Unbar them Mr Sazed "Double-Diety" Harmony, jeez!"

 

Hmm, for a serious answer?

Leecher Marasi still sounds great.

Give Wax A-Pewter and an explanation that it actives a Mind-Over-Matter state that is a lot more flexible than most people realize.  Learn to grow BIG like a Returned.  Store That Weight.  Make all his entrances more dramatic.  Occationally grow slightly mid conversation just to loom over and intimidate people.  

For Wayne, maybe F-Electrum with the hope that it proves similarly flexible toward a broad spectrum of mental balances and not exclusively the Manic/Depressive slider they understand so far.  Maybe F-Chromium because I think he's got the highest Fortune Stat short of to Lightsong and would have the most to Store.  Maybe give him the other Speed Bubble power so he can make his own overlapping time traps.  Nah, lets be honest: Wayne gets a massive spike-delivered dose of spiritual damage (not sure which metal) and then Blessings of his very own.  

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

45 minutes ago, Quantus said:

"Unbar them Mr Sazed "Double-Diety" Harmony, jeez!"

Spoiler

 

47 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Give Wax A-Pewter and an explanation that it actives a Mind-Over-Matter state that is a lot more flexible than most people realize.  Learn to grow BIG like a Returned.  Store That Weight.  Make all his entrances more dramatic.  Occationally grow slightly mid conversation just to loom over and intimidate people.  

Love it! That would be such a good use of those abilities for him.

48 minutes ago, Quantus said:

For Wayne, maybe F-Electrum with the hope that it proves similarly flexible toward a broad spectrum of mental balances and not exclusively the Manic/Depressive slider they understand so far.  

He'd probably like that one the most, as he could use it to make himself feel worse most of the time. . . But hey, at least he'd have more determination when he really needed it!

50 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Maybe F-Chromium because I think he's got the highest Fortune Stat short of to Lightsong and would have the most to Store.

Oh definitely. I'm fairly certain that his Resonance has to do with possessing an unusually high level of Fortune. He'd probably be able to use it far more effectively than any other Mistborn character.

54 minutes ago, Quantus said:

 Nah, lets be honest: Wayne gets a massive spike-delivered dose of spiritual damage (not sure which metal) and then Blessings of his very own.  

Kandra style?

[Quantus he/him]

12 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Kandra style?

Yup, damage gim into a misteraith like the first generation, then wake him up asap and send him on a worldhopping mission.  Let us all see him meet Lift.

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

Yeah, if Harmony really care, like...really really...he'd make them all mistborn because he can definitely do that for free when he wants to. He's done it before!

We need Discord; Harmony was great and we love him, and now we want mistborn and killer robots made with hemalurgy.

[Dofurion]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:14 AM, hwiles said:

Honestly, I don't believe Sazed can become Discord, and will simply have to drop the Shards and be replaced or die and be replaced instead sadly...that said...is Discord always a bad thing?

My headcannon is that Scadrial is going to experience a massive explosion in the prevalence and popularity of jazz, swing-dancing, fast cars, and technological disruption/innovation whenever their next Hero of Ages is created/chosen/rises-up.

The lord of chaos doesn't have to rule with insanity or darkness; he or she could just as easily be a warped-yet-platinum-hearted artist with poor restraint against meddling and a knack for bending the rules in favor of the people they like...which still isn't fair, and does kinda count as outrightly discordant. 

On 3/14/2024 at 9:27 AM, hwiles said:

I feel like Sazed is usually very serious, methodical, and reserved...I'd like for Discord to be funny in a dark way, unpredictable and a little unhinged at times, and way too free with their thoughts.

Scadrial deserves a fun dark god, they've been through a lot of tyranny and restraint.

That sounds a lot like Whimsy to me.

Edited March 15, 2024 by Dofurion

[Duxredux he/him]

To the OP's question, I'll point out the Hemalurgic spike that Harmony did provide that Wax did utilize. Trellium. The spike which allowed Wax to Connect with Telsin, allowing Wax the detective to locate and track the group that had been obscured from Harmony's sight. It gave Wax a way to get into the mind of his opposition and with that knowledge outplay his sister and ultimately identify the bomb launched at Elendel. It enabled Wax in ways that Harmony himself was restricted, and provided sorely needed intel after 6 years of chasing shadows.

Honestly, that's better than any single spike that I could think to give Wax the detective and ultimately proved enough. The Hemalurgic power has to come from somewhere, and odds are the best sources for Hemalurgic power were going to be trying to oppose Wax, Wayne, and Marasi - as ultimately was the case. Some powers may simply not have been available anyway, since I believe Bleeder killed the last known Steelrunner.

I will note that they had easy access to F-Pewter at the start too, which could have given Wayne a leg up at beating down Getruda, but they worked out their problems anyway.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

To the OP's question, I'll point out the Hemalurgic spike that Harmony did provide that Wax did utilize. Trellium. The spike which allowed Wax to Connect with Telsin, allowing Wax the detective to locate and track the group that had been obscured from Harmony's sight. It gave Wax a way to get into the mind of his opposition and with that knowledge outplay his sister and ultimately identify the bomb launched at Elendel. It enabled Wax in ways that Harmony himself was restricted, and provided sorely needed intel after 6 years of chasing shadows.

That reminds me, do we know anything of what that spike did? Like, it had powers in it right? Or was it more of a linchpin type deal in the person marasi took it from

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

10 hours ago, Dofurion said:

That sounds a lot like Whimsy to me.

Oh no. Whimsy is going to be like a self-aware court fool. Straight up monkey's paw on everything, and always screwing with everyone no matter what they stand for. Discord at least shall have some manner of preference towards individual freedom. Whimsy? Whimsy doesn't care about anyone or anything except having fun at the expense of others. Whimsy is going to make Discord look like a paragon of Justic by comparison by my figuring. To each their own, I'm giving you a like anyway to underscore the difference. 

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

That reminds me, do we know anything of what that spike did? Like, it had powers in it right? Or was it more of a linchpin type deal in the person marasi took it from

It is implied that the Trellium Spike was F-Gold. TLM Ch 6:

Spoiler

Instead, she ripped aside his shirt—revealing four spikes pounded in deep between his ribs. As she had suspected. Knife in hand, she began the gruesome work of digging the spikes out. She dug faster as she realized at least one of them was made of a strange metal with dark red spots like rust. One they’d been searching for forever.

The Cycle’s eyes snapped open, despite his broken jaw and the holes in his skull. Marasi cursed and worked faster, bloodied fingers straining to pry out the first of the four spikes, which was so tightly embedded between his ribs it was difficult to yank free.

Those eyes. They were glowing a vivid red now.

“The ash comes again,” the man said through bloody lips, his voice strangely grating. “The world will fall to it. You will get what you deserve, and all will wither beneath a cloud of blackness and a blanket of burned bodies made ash.”

Marasi gritted her teeth, working on the rusty-looking spike, slick with blood.

“Your end,” the voice whispered. “Your end comes. Either in ash, or at the hands of the men of gold and red. Gold and—”

Marasi yanked the spike out. The red glow faded and the body slumped, the healing stopping. She felt at the throat anyway, and even when she found no pulse, she dug out the other three spikes.

With only four spikes, he should not have required a Linchpin Spike, so the fact that the healing stopped when the Trellium Spike was removed is the clue. It could be some other unknown interaction between mixing normal and Trellium spikes, however since we get no further data. 

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

To the OP's question, I'll point out the Hemalurgic spike that Harmony did provide that Wax did utilize. Trellium. The spike which allowed Wax to Connect with Telsin, allowing Wax the detective to locate and track the group that had been obscured from Harmony's sight. It gave Wax a way to get into the mind of his opposition and with that knowledge outplay his sister and ultimately identify the bomb launched at Elendel. It enabled Wax in ways that Harmony himself was restricted, and provided sorely needed intel after 6 years of chasing shadows.

True, good point. I will point out that this wasn't the only spike Wax has received from Harmony. The first one was given to him by MeLaan before the events of AoL, the second one was given to him after killing Lessie with the first spike, in the epilogue of SoS. The third one was given to him in BoM by VenDell just in case,and the forth one I’ve found was given to him in TLM (not the Trellium one that was the fifth one) - this was an iron earring (which I think is the only mention of the metal used for the Pathian earring, apparently it was traditionally).

Wax used the first earring extensively and it was the most significant one he had worn - used to pray, communicate with Harmony in AoL and SoS, most importantly used to kill Lessie. He ignored the second and third earrings given to him and used the forth one as the Sword of Harmony in TLM. Those earrings were made out of former Inquisitor and Koloss spikes (the forth one maybe?) and while their power was mostly gone, I bet Harmony chose those earrings specifically to grant Wax the best power he could have needed.

Quotes:

Spoiler

AoL ch 3:

Quote

Waxillium had been converted to the Path soon after leaving Elendel. He was still convinced that the woman he’d met on that train ride must have been one of the Faceless Immortals, the hands of Harmony. She’d given him his earring; every Pathian wore one while praying.

SoS epilogue:

Quote

Marasi fidgeted, then she sighed and took the strange spike back. She dropped something else onto the table as she rose. A small earring, just a stud with the back bent over. “They sent this for you.”
Wax didn’t look at it. He left that earring right where it was, as Marasi made her farewells and stepped out of the party

BoM ch 4:

Quote

“Excellent,” the kandra fellow said, fishing in his pocket. Wayne got interested, until he came out with a dull old bent earring, simple, old-style. “I brought you one of these.”

BoM ch 7 - he used that third earring to Steelpush:

Quote

Go. His Push had shoved open the door. He dropped the earring—damn that VenDell—and Pushed to the right, on the train car’s metal window frame.

BoM ch 16 - and it looks like it was made out of the same metal as the first one:

Quote

At his side, he turned a little metal spike over in his fingers. The earring VenDell had sent.
It was nearly identical to the one he’d used to kill Lessie.

TLM ch 5:

Quote

Wax grunted, and helped Steris gather the rest of their things. As they did, Wax saw an envelope on the corner of his desk. That hadn’t been there before, had it? Picking it up, he felt something heavy slide to the corner. A bullet?
No, he discovered after slipping it open. An earring. And with it a small note. You’ll need to make a second, once the proper metal arrives

TLM ch 11 - the iron earring, Wax made the Trellium one form Trellium delivered to him:

Quote

He paused, then reached to his back pocket. There, nearly forgotten, was the envelope he’d found on his desk earlier. He opened it again and slid out the iron earring, a traditional accoutrement of the Pathian religion—and a means of communing with Harmony. Piercing your body with metal was a way to connect to God and give him some measure of influence over you.
He read the note again: You’ll need to make a second, once the proper metal arrives.
Rusts. Why would Harmony tell him to make a second earring, presumably out of Trell’s metal?

TLM ch 19 - Trellium earring:

Quote

He took out a second envelope. “I had this made,” he said, shaking something out of it. Another earring. With a red tinge to the metal. It was nothing more than a stud, with the only trellium portion the bar in the middle, as the metal couldn’t be melted to be forged.
“When I gave the trellium spike to the university for study,” he explained, “I asked them to fabricate this for me. Because Harmony suggested I’d need it.”

 

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Hemalurgy spikes lose power after they are taken out of a body, right?  So why did Vin’s spike still give her power after being so long out of her ear?

Brandon Sanderson

They decay, but it's not a really fast decay. And it also kind of works like a half-life thing. Does that make sense?  So you get an initial just "that's bad" but that had happened to hers long ago when she had taken it out for the first time, right? And then over time, like if that had sat out for hundreds of years you're going to end up with something like Wax's earring that's like-- it gives a bit, but it barely gives anything. But as long as you're kind of keeping it in and out you're going to be a lot better off.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

 

 

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

It is implied that the Trellium Spike was F-Gold. TLM Ch 6:

  Hide contents

Instead, she ripped aside his shirt—revealing four spikes pounded in deep between his ribs. As she had suspected. Knife in hand, she began the gruesome work of digging the spikes out. She dug faster as she realized at least one of them was made of a strange metal with dark red spots like rust. One they’d been searching for forever.

The Cycle’s eyes snapped open, despite his broken jaw and the holes in his skull. Marasi cursed and worked faster, bloodied fingers straining to pry out the first of the four spikes, which was so tightly embedded between his ribs it was difficult to yank free.

Those eyes. They were glowing a vivid red now.

“The ash comes again,” the man said through bloody lips, his voice strangely grating. “The world will fall to it. You will get what you deserve, and all will wither beneath a cloud of blackness and a blanket of burned bodies made ash.”

Marasi gritted her teeth, working on the rusty-looking spike, slick with blood.

“Your end,” the voice whispered. “Your end comes. Either in ash, or at the hands of the men of gold and red. Gold and—”

Marasi yanked the spike out. The red glow faded and the body slumped, the healing stopping. She felt at the throat anyway, and even when she found no pulse, she dug out the other three spikes.

With only four spikes, he should not have required a Linchpin Spike, so the fact that the healing stopped when the Trellium Spike was removed is the clue. It could be some other unknown interaction between mixing normal and Trellium spikes, however since we get no further data. 

I didn't pick that up. Wax didn't wear this spike that much so the power in it didn't matter tbf.

He could have also died just like when you remove enough inquisitor spikes - even Marsh in TLM epilogue said not every spike can be removed safely and this might be the case. It doesn't have to contain F-gold, but removing it just killed the Hemalurgist. Wax speculated that this spike was placed as a linchpin spike (the role it had, it may not need to be placed on the back, this one was between ribs), so removing it would kill the person, no matter the power inside. TLM ch 11:

Quote

But lately, Marasi had begun to encounter members of the Set with too many powers. Wax hadn’t believed at first, but if she’d confirmed it …
“The limitation has been circumvented somehow,” Wax said, inspecting the trellium spike. “Perhaps it has to do with the placement of this spike, as a linchpin?”

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

With only four spikes, he should not have required a Linchpin Spike, so the fact that the healing stopped when the Trellium Spike was removed is the clue.

Isn't four spikes the minimum number that requires a Linchpin spike?

Hemalurgy table quote:

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

and the forth one I’ve found was given to him in TLM (not the Trellium one that was the fifth one) - this was an iron earring (which I think is the only mention of the metal used for the Pathian earring, apparently it was traditionally).

Now this has some interesting implications. 

If Hemalurgic iron can be used this way without transforming you into a Koloss or something else, it suggests that the amount of Investiture may be directly correlated with the amount of change a spike can bring.

I theorize a minimum charge isn't going to warp you into a construct, as the "information" of the Spiritweb fragment has decayed into a plain Invested charge.

Or, perhaps very, very tiny but beneficial changes could be brought about? For instance, maybe you'd get very, very slightly taller or stronger, and this may be part of why Wax is particularly tall? 

Edited March 16, 2024 by Trusk'our
I don't know why the entire Hemalurgy table decided to post itself. Fixed it.

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Now this has some interesting implications. 

If Hemalurgic iron can be used this way without transforming you into a Koloss or something else, it suggests that the amount of Investiture may be directly correlated with the amount of change a spike can bring.

I theorize a minimum charge isn't going to warp you into a construct, as the "information" of the Spiritweb fragment has decayed into a plain Invested charge.

Or, perhaps very, very tiny but beneficial changes could be brought about? For instance, maybe you'd get very, very slightly taller or stronger, and this may be part of why Wax is particularly tall? 

Yes, it has very interesting implications. I have no idea how I've missed this before. I need to start reading Cosmere in English only  

I think there are some ways to use one attribute spike without warping you into a construct, some physical deformation may happen, especially if you're not careful, but if done correctly with the right intent and right binding point an iron spike holding strength might just make you more muscular, with no additional warping. Or this iron spike was charged with something different than an attribute - that's also a possibility. ReLuur have pewter Blessings, we already have examples of using metals outside of their designated role. 

In Wax's case I don't think it makes him taller - he is always tall, no matter if he wears the spike or not and that was only the 4th spike given to him. He didn't say it looks like the spike he used to kill Lessie, so I think the 1st and 3rd spike (and possibly the 2nd one too) were made out of a different metal than the iron spike - inquisitor spike as per WoB (and VenDell in BoM said his earring was made out of old inquisitor spikes).

[Duxredux he/him]

@Treamayne and @alder24, I'll answer you both without fiddling with quotes because I'm on mobile right now.  Treamayne makes a good point, it could be F-Gold, but there's something more going on. The Cycle stopped healing after a shot to the head, then started back up. In Marasi's after action report to Wax, Wax said that should be impossible , and I'm adding if F-Gold is the only source of healing.

Interestingly just after a Q&A board question most of us looked at and weighed in asking if Inquisitors are Cognitive Shadows, we concluded that they are probably not - but I think this Cycle might have been made one after death. I don't think we have any information on Autonomy Cognitive Shadows, but I think it's time you start looking. I've been thinking about this ever since the Set Faceless Immortal told Edwarn that he would be permitted to serve elsewhere in the Set - and proceeded to blow both of them up.

Now I'm getting more hypothetical, but maybe Autonomy figured out how to condense and automate what Kelsier did to staple himself back into his body using Hemalurgy - basically embedding a spike that is setup to capture and transform the soul when the bearer dies and then Hemalurgically reconnect the new Cognitive Shadow to the body. Perhaps some aspect of their new nature let's them reshape their body or heal - (greater cosmere spoiler)

Spoiler

basically a hacked version of a Returned.