Shard plate and emotional alonancy

[Necro-Dancer]

Sorry if this has already been asked but will a shard plate helm protect you from emotional alonancy? I ask this because in the coppermind wiki it states that both aluminum and shard plate cannot be effected by soul casting so I am wondering if alonancy would work the same.

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

You're in luck. Brandon has answered this question for us.

Quote

BasakaIsTheStrongest

Does Shardplate provide protection against emotional Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Don't dismiss your helmet when you're around an Allomancer.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

The metal that Shardplate is made out of is both metal and invested.

We know that metal also protects against emotional allomancy, but also investiture generally resists investiture.

[Colors]

To expand on this, I'd suspect that it provides a limited degree of protection, much like a copper cloud does. Enhanced emotional Allomancy, such as the Lord Ruler's would likely be felt, though not as strongly.

Edited March 6 by Colors

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Colors said:

To expand on this, I'd suspect that it provides a limited degree of protection, much like a copper cloud does. Enhanced emotional Allomancy, such as the Lord Ruler's would likely be felt, though not as strongly.

Disagree. Considering that a Shardblade is far more invested that you can't even steelpush it - you can't even use Surgebinding on plates and that's more power than Allomancy deals with. I doubt emotional Allomancy would sneak through it. You would need to dismiss the helmet for it to work. 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Disagree. Considering that a Shardblade is far more invested that you can't even steelpush it - you can't even use Surgebinding on plates and that's more power than Allomancy deals with. I doubt emotional Allomancy would sneak through it. You would need to dismiss the helmet for it to work. 

Rashek was filling entire city blocks with despair, I feel like it would be felt. Yes, investiture resists investiture but that clearly isn't 1:1. For instance, we know the bands have a lot of investiture, but not a super crazy amount (it could be refilled with compounding pretty quickly). Even that small amount allows wax to push off the inherent metal in people. I know that shardplate would probably have more investiture than a 'normal' soul but Rashek was crazy strong. Not only was his allomancy as pure as it can be, he can also compound EVERYTHING. 

 

This has come up in other threads in terms of a physical confrontation between Rashek and a Radiant - compounding is super super op and isn't really given the justice that it should. Yes, only a small amount of investiture technically is used in Rasheks emotional allomancy, but the whole point of compounding is that you're getting a lot more effect for the same amount of juice. 

 

Edit to add: I believe this is why we are seeing the power level on scadrial decline. Full compounding is simply too OP when you are inevitably going to have magic systems face each other. 

Edited March 6 by CtrlAltDepressed
added stuff

[alder24]

Just now, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Rashek was filling entire city blocks with despair, I feel like it would be felt

And a regular Coppercloud of Kelsier or Club was enough to stop it. They didn't feel it, Vin did only because she had a spike. Sure if he wanted to he could have targeted them and probably pierce their Copperclouds with emotional Allomancy. But a Shardplate is vastly more invested than anything a Mistborn deals with. Even Rashek won't be able to pierce it. TLM ch 14:

Quote

“There is something, Kelsier,” she said. “The palace feels . . . wrong, somehow.”
“That’s the Lord Ruler,” Kelsier said. “He radiates like an incredibly powerful Soother, smothering the emotions of everyone who gets close to him. Turn on your copper; that will make you immune.”
Vin nodded, burning copper. Immediately, the sensation went away.

There are two examples from WoBs on how to push Shardblade (which would work the same for emotional Allomancy) - one requires you to wield a full power of the Well of Ascension, the other needs a really strong steelpush and duralumin. Per the second one, I can see Rashek's really strong emotional Allomancy burnt with duralumin to be able to pierce a Shardplate, but if the power of the Well is needed then even he can't do it. 

Spoiler

Elayne Startracker

Can Shardblades be pulled and pushed?

Brandon Sanderson

It would take a LOT of power to do so. Conventionally, no.

General Twitter 2017 (Oct. 20, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Would Allomancy affect Shardplate or Shardblades?

Brandon Sanderson

It cannot affected Shardblades. Well, "cannot" is a strong word. Things with innate investiture are much more difficult to affect with any of the magics at all. Which is why it's very hard, for instance-- Szeth is not able to bind people, or Lash people wearing Shardplate to the ceiling. In the same Allomancy would not be able to Push on it without some help. Duralumin and a really strong [Steel]Push could probably do it. 

Questioner

I was just wondering if it's actually metal.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yes. It is metal-ish... it is metal enough for Allomancy to work on it.

Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

 

Sure, Rashek is powerful, he wins against any Radiant in direct confrontation, but not with emotional Allomancy. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

43 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This has come up in other threads in terms of a physical confrontation between Rashek and a Radiant - compounding is super super op and isn't really given the justice that it should. Yes, only a small amount of investiture technically is used in Rasheks emotional allomancy, but the whole point of compounding is that you're getting a lot more effect for the same amount of juice. 

I do feel like mentioning that most Compounding (with the exception of nicrosil) does not affect the power of one's Allomancy, but instead allows you to effectively increase the power of your Feruchemy by fueling it much more efficiently and at much less personal cost.

The reason his Allomancy was so overpowered is not because of Compounding, but because he made himself a crazily powerful Mistborn via the Well of Ascension (WoB).

It is almost certainly possible to increase the strength of your Allomancy by utilizing Feruchemical nicrosil though, so if you wanted to have stronger Allomancy as a Fullborn, Storing (or Compounding) nicrosil for later use may be the way to go.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Sure, Rashek is powerful, he wins against any Radiant in direct confrontation, but not with emotional Allomancy. 

49 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I do feel like mentioning that most Compounding (with the exception of nicrosil) does not affect the power of one's Allomancy, but instead allows you to effectively increase the power of your Feruchemy by fueling it much more efficiently and at much less personal cost.

True, but the nicrosil providing infinite investiture means you could be using duralumin constantly - which would effect all allomancy.

 

There is a wob I cannot find about the fact that Lord Ruler's emotional allomancy was stronger than Elends - I remember / feel like that is not simply due to him using the Well. Theoretically Elend should have been allomantically as strong as the Lord Ruler. 

 

edit: i found it

 

Chaos (paraphrased)

I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011) Edited March 6 by CtrlAltDepressed

[alder24]

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

True, but the nicrosil providing infinite investiture means you could be using duralumin constantly - which would effect all allomancy.

That's not that kind of investiture, nicrosil is storing Innate investiture, a part of your soul that gives you power, not investiture that fuels it like Stormlight. 

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

There is a wob I cannot find about the fact that Lord Ruler's emotional allomancy was stronger than Elends - I remember / feel like that is not simply due to him using the Well. Theoretically Elend should have been allomantically as strong as the Lord Ruler. 

As said in the WoB provided by Trusk'our, he made himself as powerful as possible by using the power of the Well. Plus he was a Savant of every metal - that's more power. It's possible he used nicrosil to strengthen his Allomantic power (if it works like other attributes, you store 50% of your Allomantic power for an hour, you can tap it to be 150% strong for an hour, or less with diminishing returns. But keep in mind nicrosil was not available in TFE, it's unlikely he had it unless he created it with the power of the Well, or had some leftovers from before the Empire was created (both option set up a limit of how much metal he could have used fro compounding).

Spoiler

theFinisher4Ever

Was the Lord Ruler using Feruchemy + Allomancy to Soothe all of the people around him? Or was he, as I like to think, flaring for so long that he became a Soother Savant?

Brandon Sanderson

He lived long enough and used his metals enough (particularly Soothing) to become nearly a savant in every area, if not a full savant.

/r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 15, 2013)

 

Funniest thing, searching for nicrosil in google pops mostly Mistborn sources, but I've found one saying it was first developed in the 1960s. That means nicrosil would be also unavailable before Rashek's Ascension, so the only way for him to have it is to create it via the Well in advance, which is possible. 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

9 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That's not that kind of investiture, nicrosil is storing Innate investiture, a part of your soul that gives you power, not investiture that fuels it like Stormlight. 

Im not sure what you mean by this. A mistborn that taps feruchemically stored nicrosil would be able to burn that as any metal, as i understand it. So they would be able to activate whichever allomantic power they wish to use at that time, just like using pure investiture. 

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

As said in the WoB provided by Trusk'our, he made himself as powerful as possible by using the power of the Well. Plus he was a Savant of every metal - that's more power. It's possible he used nicrosil to strengthen his Allomantic power

40 minutes ago, alder24 said:

theFinisher4Ever

Was the Lord Ruler using Feruchemy + Allomancy to Soothe all of the people around him? Or was he, as I like to think, flaring for so long that he became a Soother Savant?

Brandon Sanderson

He lived long enough and used his metals enough (particularly Soothing) to become nearly a savant in every area, if not a full savant.

What about the wob I posted about compounding allomancy? Do you think he was referring to Nicrosil or some mechanism we havent seen yet? It seems the lord ruler was doing a combination of things. Well power, savantism, and compounding allomancy - which would explain his bonkers power level.

 

I dont have a great understanding of savantism, but I understood it to not change the actual power level of that ability, just warp its application.

 

I do have issues with the idea that LR would be able to make himself a more powerful mistborn than Preservation intended. What I mean is that Preservation created the lerasium interaction that creates mistborn, which is the mechanism Elend uses. This creates the most powerful version of a mistborn. I dont see that LR could make a more powerful version than the most powerful version the shard that created the system put in, if that makes any sense. 

[listerfeend]

49 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That's not that kind of investiture, nicrosil is storing Innate investiture, a part of your soul that gives you power, not investiture that fuels it like Stormlight. 

I do have a question on this... So, we know that burning metals doesn't actually give them the Investiture to Push/Pull, but instead basically "opens" their spirit web to Preservation to allow the Investiture to flow through, basically a direct link to Preservation's Investiture. The type of metal is keyed to the specific portion of their SW to allow them to do that specific Push or Pull. 

We also know that a Mistborn using something like the Purified Liquid Dor could use that Liquid Dor to fuel all the metals. So, would storing your Innate Investiture actually be storing pure Innate Investiture, thus allowing Nicrosil to ostensibly fuel all of the Allomantic Metals? I'm just trying to think this through, and it seems like a full Metalborn should be able to use Nicrosil as was discussed previously, unless I'm very much missing something...

[alder24]

28 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Im not sure what you mean by this. A mistborn that taps feruchemically stored nicrosil would be able to burn that as any metal, as i understand it. So they would be able to activate whichever allomantic power they wish to use at that time, just like using pure investiture. 

No, because that's a different kind of investiture. The word investiture has several meanings in Cosmere: one is raw power like Dor, other is manifestation of investiture, invested arts, abilities like Allomancy. There are 3 types of investiture: static, kinetic and innate. Static is Dor/Stormlight and the content of metalminds - investiture that is not used by can be used. Kinetic is investiture that is being used - that's what A-bronze detects. Innate is part of your soul - that's Breaths, that's Preservation's fragment, that's stuff that gives you powers but isn't a fuel. F-nicrosil stores only innate investiture, your abilities to use investiture, not investiture itself. As we currently understand it, you can't use it to power your Allomancy, F-nicrosil stores Allomancy itself. That's how medallions work - they store Feruchemical abilities, not raw investiture.

Marasi had Bands of Mourning, she tapped "everything" and she had to steal vials of metal to use Allomancy. That's because the Bands gave her abilities but no fuel. 

37 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

What about the wob I posted about compounding allomancy? Do you think he was referring to Nicrosil or some mechanism we havent seen yet? It seems the lord ruler was doing a combination of things. Well power, savantism, and compounding allomancy - which would explain his bonkers power level.

I've answered it mostly in the previous post. It's most likely this is about F-nicrosil compounding. He stored his Allomancy, then tapped it to get stronger, just like you do with F-steel and storing speed. But the F-nicrosil mechanism is not fully confirmed yet, we don't know how it works in detail.

38 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I dont have a great understanding of savantism, but I understood it to not change the actual power level of that ability, just warp its application.

Savantism makes you do more with less - look at Spook in HoA, he was able to sense the air being pushed by a blade, his eyes were so sensitive that he had to wear a blindfold and he still was able to see, his touch could sense minor differences in smoothness ets. Savantism is a big power increase. WoB (note, Wax is no longer a Savant):

Spoiler

Questioner

There is quantitative difference in Allomancy (e.g. Elend is stronger than Vin), there is skill difference (e.g. Breeze is better than Vin with zinc), but is there a qualitative difference too?

Brandon Sanderson

That’s the scale of what we call savant. Wax can do more with less. It’s not just skill, the burning for long, using for so long, will actually adapt your soul to the power.

Questioner

So can bronze savants pierce copperclouds?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a bronze savant should be able to pierce copperclouds. It depends on the strengths of the coppercloud and the strength of the savant, but yes.

Questioner

So Elend could theoretically learn to pierce copperclouds?

Brandon Sanderson

Weaker ones, yeah, totally. He can learn how to do it by brute force.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

43 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I do have issues with the idea that LR would be able to make himself a more powerful mistborn than Preservation intended. What I mean is that Preservation created the lerasium interaction that creates mistborn, which is the mechanism Elend uses. This creates the most powerful version of a mistborn. I dont see that LR could make a more powerful version than the most powerful version the shard that created the system put in, if that makes any sense. 

We don't know from where Lerasium came from, it's likely some previous Ascendant used the power of the Well to create them, we don't know what were Preservation's intentions with Lerasium.

We know the more Lerasium you burn, the stronger Mistborn you become - the size of the bead determines how strong you will be. I would expect the upper limit to be how much power is your soul able to withstand being transferred from SR, not on Lerasium itself. Rashek had access to the power of the Well, the power that was able to move planet, raise mountains, shift the crust - that's much more raw investiture than what's in Lerasium bead, that's much bigger potential for Connecting you to Preservation than what's in a small bead - even if he made himself a Mistborn with the last drops of the power. He pushed his soul to the very limits. Or maybe the upper limit is what we've seen with Vin when she was Ascending? 

Spoiler

Snarlezz

What's the incentive of alloying lerasium and becoming a misting when you could just burn it normal and be a Mistborn?

AltF4WillHelp

My guess is that you'd presumably you'd use less of it? Also, arguably, not every way of using a magic is going to be the most optimal way.

It's probably just a way that lerasium can work. If you alloy it or somehow mix it with things from other systems, it's quite possible you'd end up getting those magics instead, because it'd Connect you more strongly to a different Shard.

Brandon Sanderson

The replies to this are correct.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018)

 

 

49 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

I do have a question on this... So, we know that burning metals doesn't actually give them the Investiture to Push/Pull, but instead basically "opens" their spirit web to Preservation to allow the Investiture to flow through, basically a direct link to Preservation's Investiture. The type of metal is keyed to the specific portion of their SW to allow them to do that specific Push or Pull. 

We also know that a Mistborn using something like the Purified Liquid Dor could use that Liquid Dor to fuel all the metals. So, would storing your Innate Investiture actually be storing pure Innate Investiture, thus allowing Nicrosil to ostensibly fuel all of the Allomantic Metals? I'm just trying to think this through, and it seems like a full Metalborn should be able to use Nicrosil as was discussed previously, unless I'm very much missing something...

What is "pure innate investiture?" Purified Dor is unkeyed Dor (which is static investiture), pure innate investiture would be also unkeyed - that's medallions for you. They still grant only specific powers. F-nicrosil - for all we know - doesn't fuel your Allomancy/Feruchemy, it stores them directly, but you still need to burn metals or store attributes to use those powers. 

In my opinion F-nicrosil stores ability just like most other Feruchemical metals, like F-steel stores speed. You store 50% strength of your Allomancy for an hour, you became a weaker Allomancer for an hour, but then you can tap to be stronger Allomancer for an hour or tap with diminishing returns to do a steel push on the level of duralumin without duralumin - for example. That's because if you're storing your Allomantic strength directly, you can become like a Lerasium Mistborn or like Rashek for a short time. But you still have to burn metals to conduct investiture from SR, F-nicrosil just makes this conduct wider or narrower. But again I have to note, this is not something we have confirmed in books, we know F-nicrosil stores innate investiture, your abilities, not the power directly, we know it is different for Feruchemist than it is for medallions (in medallions it works like F-copper). In my opinion this makes the most sense and provides the best opportunities. 

[Colors]

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

And a regular Coppercloud of Kelsier or Club was enough to stop it. They didn't feel it, Vin did only because she had a spike. Sure if he wanted to he could have targeted them and probably pierce their Copperclouds with emotional Allomancy. But a Shardplate is vastly more invested than anything a Mistborn deals with. Even Rashek won't be able to pierce it. TLM ch 14:

There are two examples from WoBs on how to push Shardblade (which would work the same for emotional Allomancy) - one requires you to wield a full power of the Well of Ascension, the other needs a really strong steelpush and duralumin. Per the second one, I can see Rashek's really strong emotional Allomancy burnt with duralumin to be able to pierce a Shardplate, but if the power of the Well is needed then even he can't do it. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Elayne Startracker

Can Shardblades be pulled and pushed?

Brandon Sanderson

It would take a LOT of power to do so. Conventionally, no.

General Twitter 2017 (Oct. 20, 2017)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Would Allomancy affect Shardplate or Shardblades?

Brandon Sanderson

It cannot affected Shardblades. Well, "cannot" is a strong word. Things with innate investiture are much more difficult to affect with any of the magics at all. Which is why it's very hard, for instance-- Szeth is not able to bind people, or Lash people wearing Shardplate to the ceiling. In the same Allomancy would not be able to Push on it without some help. Duralumin and a really strong [Steel]Push could probably do it. 

Questioner

I was just wondering if it's actually metal.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yes. It is metal-ish... it is metal enough for Allomancy to work on it.

Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

 

Sure, Rashek is powerful, he wins against any Radiant in direct confrontation, but not with emotional Allomancy. 

A regular coppercloud could block it because it isn't a focused attack, it's a passive aura put out to generally effect every normal person in the area. If  he wanted to pierce a coppercloud Rashek would easily. In fact, his  emotional allomancy pierces Vin's coppercloud once she enters Kredik Shaw, even without it being focused on her. Even flaring copper didn't protect her.

The power of the well was just an example of who could do it, if a strong push combined with duralumin could push plate then Rashek could definitely do it with a duralumin push. Based on the fact he was constantly burning brass for potentially centuries he's got to be as much of a brass savant as you can be, on top of his raw allomantic strength. He can accomplish soothing feats with his normal power levels even the most powerful Mistborn could only accomplish with duralumin. Elend post-Lerasium should be considered a "really strong" pusher as he has the power of the original Mistborn  before it was diluted, it was a level of allomantic power not seen in a long time. Considering it takes him burning duralumin in addition to his own strong push to affect the Koloss, something Rashek could presumably do without duralumin... I'd propose it's possible Rashek could effect someone in plate by merely flaring brass and he would most definitely effect them with a duralumin push. 

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Colors said:

A regular coppercloud could block it because it isn't a focused attack, it's a passive aura put out to generally effect every normal person in the area. If  he wanted to pierce a coppercloud Rashek would easily. In fact, his  emotional allomancy pierces Vin's coppercloud once she enters Kredik Shaw, even without it being focused on her. Even flaring copper didn't protect her.

I've addressed those points in there. He could pierce a Coppercloud if he were to focus, Vin's Coppercloud was pierced (unlike Kel or Club's Copperclouds) because Vin is spiked and her Spirit Web is cracked, allowing emotional Allomancy to sneak into her soul easier. 

9 hours ago, Colors said:

The power of the well was just an example of who could do it, if a strong push combined with duralumin could push plate then Rashek could definitely do it with a duralumin push.

Strong push means not a normal Mistborn level Steelpush. A greater power is needed - Lerasium level or Rashek level. But just because they would do it with dualumin doesn't mean they will slam that Shardplate into the ground like a wrecking ball - the strength of that push on that Shardplate would be far smaller than what you would expect from duralumin push. It's too invested, it still resists. The same would go with emotional Allomancy, if it was possible to pierce a Shardplate with duralumin - it wouldn't feel paralyzing like Vin's smoothing Straff, or what we've seen in TLM, it would feel just like normal emotional Allomancy, but lasting only a single second. Not really useful when it achieves nothing, just a waste of metal. 

Rashek can do much better by tapping speed and strength, slamming his fist into the Shardplate's helmet and THEN using duralumin powered emotional Allomancy, paralyzing Radiant with their head exposed.

[Colors]

On 3/7/2024 at 8:21 AM, alder24 said:

I've addressed those points in there. He could pierce a Coppercloud if he were to focus, Vin's Coppercloud was pierced (unlike Kel or Club's Copperclouds) because Vin is spiked and her Spirit Web is cracked, allowing emotional Allomancy to sneak into her soul easier. 

Strong push means not a normal Mistborn level Steelpush. A greater power is needed - Lerasium level or Rashek level. But just because they would do it with dualumin doesn't mean they will slam that Shardplate into the ground like a wrecking ball - the strength of that push on that Shardplate would be far smaller than what you would expect from duralumin push. It's too invested, it still resists. The same would go with emotional Allomancy, if it was possible to pierce a Shardplate with duralumin - it wouldn't feel paralyzing like Vin's smoothing Straff, or what we've seen in TLM, it would feel just like normal emotional Allomancy, but lasting only a single second. Not really useful when it achieves nothing, just a waste of metal. 

Rashek can do much better by tapping speed and strength, slamming his fist into the Shardplate's helmet and THEN using duralumin powered emotional Allomancy, paralyzing Radiant with their head exposed.

Yeah, I'm not saying it was a viable strategy, just that I believe soothing of Rashek's level could be felt through shardplate. It would be dramatically dampened, but I think it could be felt, especially if he used duralumin. Not practical, but I do believe they would feel it. Everything depends on the amount of investiture and power brought to bear.