iriali splinters of Virtuosity?

Dofurion · February 12

Caution: There may be spoilers for Yumi, Tress and, to a lesser extent, the Emperor's Soul.

Ok to start I would like to provide a summary of who the Iriali are according to Coppermind:

The Iriali have metallic golden-blond skin and hair that breeds true. They mostly have yellow eyes. They have had what most would consider to be inhuman ancestry, depending on what is considered human. The Iriali worship a god they call "One". According to this belief, the One knew everything but had experienced nothing. And so the One became Many in order to experience all things. As each experience is different, it brings completeness to the One. Eventually, all will be gathered back in when the sum of land is attained and they will once again become One. Every person is a different mind of a single being experiencing different lives. The philosophy behind the One is that the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond are the same thing and that, when a person dies, their soul goes with their Investiture to the Spiritual Realm. Most cosmere philosophers disagree with this belief.

Seeing this summary, I got to wondering what if, like other things in the Cosmere, they are right to a certain extent?
I started looking for answers in the WoB's and I found 3 very interesting ones:

Sanderson has been asked if his beliefs are inspired by the fragmentation of Adonalsium and he said slightly but that there are events involved (in the timeline) that would be more influential. [ref]
They have asked him if they are related to Autonomy, and he answered no. Then he thought and said that there is a slight relationship, but that it does not imply anything. [ref]
And finally, Sanderson has stated that his situation shares some similarities with what happens in Threnody. [ref]

From these 3 WoB's we can conclude that the Iriali town has a relationship with a Shard (that would explain the slight but insubstantial relationship; they would be related to another Shard that is not Autonomy), Their religion is based on events after the Shattering of Adonalsium and shares similarities with what happened on Threnody.

Of all the Shards, the one that has the most similar shattering to Ambition is precisely Virtuosity; the only difference is that the latter was voluntary and with an unknown purpose.

So I started looking for WoB's about Virtuosity and I found this very interesting one:

Quote

asmodeus

By the time of [Yumi and the Nightmare Painter], it has been more than 10,000 years since the Shattering. In this story, there is an implication that Virtuosity Splintered herself 1700 years ago. Can you tell us something about what she was doing in between?

Brandon Sanderson

In between?

Adam Horne

The 10,000 years since the Shattering and her...

Brandon Sanderson

Until then? Virtuosity was exploring the artistic expressions of the cosmere. And choosing not to settle in one location--something that Virtuosity was not keen on doing. Not for too long at least.

Secret Project #3 Reveal and Livestream (March 22, 2022)

It should be noted that in the WoB it is Asmodeus who assumes that Virtuosity was Splintered 1700 years ago, but if I am not wrong, what happened at that time was that the Shroud was created, and before its creation, were already splinters of that Virtuosity in the system.

Ok, so starting from this base, I thought, what if Virtuosity splintered itself voluntarily (or by influence of the intent of his shard) to create a group of splinters that would travel through the cosmere experiencing everything possible and thus have a better perspective of... everything, and thus have better inspiration for art? And after a prearranged journey, all the souls (or copies of the Vessel's soul) that were sent to the spiritual realm would be reunited to rebuild Virtuosity.

Here also comes a round of circumstantial evidence:

The men often wear only waist wraps on warmer days. They are also known to paint their skin with colors and patterns. [Coppermind].
On Lumar, and likely other planets on their Path, they developed a written script that was written vertically, from top to bottom. [ref] (This is important for later.)
Most of the things associated with them seem to have to do with yellow... just the Hion line we're missing.

Quote

Quote

Kingdaughter613

The hion colors are two of the inks used in printers, magenta and cyan.

Brandon Sanderson

They are.

Kingdaughter613

Was this intentional?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Kingdaughter613

If so, what happened to yellow?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question. RAFO.

Secret Project #3 Reveal and Livestream (March 22, 2022)

Quote

Lacrosse Demon

In the Yumi and the Nightmare Painter prerelease spoiler stream, someone asked about a third hion, colored yellow, which you hinted was a thing. Nothing like that appeared in the novel beyond the third color on the cover artwork. Could you expand on that a bit?

Brandon Sanderson

There could be a third theoretical color that would be relevant in this conversation. And it would be yellow. If there were a third hion line, it would be yellow. And there is not a third hion line, currently. I wonder why…

YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023)

In summary:
The Iriali may descend from the splinters created from a 1/3 of Virtuosity which by voluntarily splintering, manifested a group with a physical body and arranged them so that after a certain time their souls and those of their descendants would be collected in the spiritual realm. and they would put it back together with all that accumulated experience.

Other considerations
I would also like to include another theory here. And the Grand would also be descendants left behind by the Iriali (Logistically they cannot take all of them), that would explain their hair color, their eye color and their size, which could well be comparable to that of a Rosharian. In conjunction with this theory, it would explain their deep-seated fear of Forgery, since it would be an aberration for them to alter the soul of the One with false experiences.
In addition, they are the perfect connection between the appearance of the Iriali and the Asian aesthetics of the Utol system. (At this point we can also include the topic of writing.)

Additionally, it also opens up several interesting possibilities. For example, the culture of the Grands has more importance than we think. Could it be that 80 suns are the total number of suns in the cosmere star cluster? Or that the Long Trail is explicitly passing through planets with entities highly invested and culturally influenced by them. I mean, where you can find more artistic inspiration than in cultures that are more crowded with metaphysical influence.

Finally, if you ask me, the order of the Long Trail would be the following:

Spoiler

First Land - Utol
Second Land - Sel
Third Land - Unknown
Fourth Land - Roshar
Fifth Land - Scadrial
Sixth Land - Lumar
Seventh Land- Komashi

The first and the last are interchangeable for this theory

Edited February 12 by Dofurion

CtrlAltDepressed · February 12

I love this theory and have always thought that the Iriali were alluding to once being a shard that shattered itself into a people. My only issue with your theory is that this seems to line up more closely to the Intent of Wisdom / Prudence (unconfirmed) - in addition, if Virtuosity had splintered themselves into a people, I feel like we wouldn't be seeing the other splinters of Virtuosity around Komashi.

The situation around Komashi seems to lend itself towards a violent / unfortunate splintering rather than an thought out / planned action. If Virtuosity was going to rebuild when the Journey is complete, I dont feel like they would leave the splinters around Komashi.

I could still absolutely see this being the case though.

alder24 · February 12

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

And finally, Sanderson has stated that his situation shares some similarities with what happens in Threnody. [ref]

Have you read TSM? Spoilers:

Spoiler

There was an exodus from Threnody and some Threnodites settled on Canticle, fleeing from the Evil and internal conflicts. I believe this is the "similarity" Brandon is talking about, the exodus.

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

From these 3 WoB's we can conclude that the Iriali town has a relationship with a Shard (that would explain the slight but insubstantial relationship; they would be related to another Shard that is not Autonomy),

Disagree. That's a speculation, not a conclusion. WoB 2 didn't say that. It said that Iriali are only slightly connected to Autonomy, but not in a meaningful way. There is no mention of their connection to another Shard.

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

Their religion is based on events after the Shattering of Adonalsium

Partially disagree, I have a problem with the way it's phrased. Their religion is influenced by the Shattering in some way, but there were more recent events that were more influential.

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

It should be noted that in the WoB it is Asmodeus who assumes that Virtuosity was Splintered 1700 years ago, but if I am not wrong, what happened at that time was that the Shroud was created, and before its creation, were already splinters of that Virtuosity in the system.

Splinters can be made by a Shard without killing it. Spren are Splinters, made by Adonalsium, Honor, Cultivation and Odium - all without killing them. The Shraud was made because of the Father Machine and that was allowed because Virtuosity was Splintered.

Spoiler

Questioner

When a Shard Splinters, does it have any effect on the cosmere that we aren’t seeing yet?

Brandon Sanderson

No.

Questioner

What would be the effect if all the Shards Splintered?

Brandon Sanderson

It does have, but see, there is Splintering, and there’s Splintering. Traumatic Splintering is a different event than a Shard Splintering themselves, or things like this. There’s a whole continuum going on there.

All the Shards being Splintered would, of course, have an effect. But it could have all kinds of different effects based on how, and why, and what’s going on, and what happened to the different pieces of Investiture. You can have a full Splintering, where the Shard is just completely blasted into pieces. Or you can have a Shard taking off pieces of their soul and Splintering it out and sending it off to be self-aware, and things like that. These are two different things.

Also, there’s a whole bunch of nuance in that question. But the answer is: it will inevitably have an effect, and there are effects that have happened in the cosmere that you don’t recognize yet as being the effects of Splintering, and things like that.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

Ok, so starting from this base, I thought, what if Virtuosity splintered itself voluntarily (or by influence of the intent of his shard) to create a group of splinters that would travel through the cosmere experiencing everything possible and thus have a better perspective of... everything, and thus have better inspiration for art? And after a prearranged journey, all the souls (or copies of the Vessel's soul) that were sent to the spiritual realm would be reunited to rebuild Virtuosity.

I always had a problem with this theory, that Iriali are somehow a Shard. This doesn't fit because Iriali aren't invested enough to be considered Splinters. We've seen people who are Splinters - Returned hold a Splinter of Endowment, the Divine Breath. This is such an amount of investiture that it grants them the 5th Heightening alone, with functional immortality and big, visible color aura around them. Iriali have none of that. They age, they die, they have no color aura around them. They can't be Splinters of a Shard, pieces of a Shard, because they are not invested enough.

Spoiler

Skyler

If a Returned gives away his/her Breath they die right? So why doesn't Vasher die after he gives his to Denth?

Brandon Sanderson

They will die the moment they run out of Breath to harvest. Once a week their body needs a Breath in order to survive. Each Returned has one single superpowered Breath. Imagine it as one breath that propels them up through the Heightenings, but it is only a single Breath. It's what we speak of in Shard world terminology as a Splinter. And when the seventh day comes, if a Returned does not have another breath for his body to consume to keep him alive, his body will actually eat his divine Breath and kill him. So they don't die immediately after they get rid of the Breath, they're sort of put into a state of limbo where if they don't find more Breath by the time that their feast day comes, then they will die. (Vasher did not give his Returned Breath to Denth, just a number of normal Breaths.)

Goodreads Fantasy Book Discussion Warbreaker Q&A (Jan. 18, 2010)

Spoiler

Questioner

*inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah the Divine Breath is a gift of Investiture directly to the...basically they are being given a large Splinter of Endowment.

[...]

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

Spoiler

tskyeguye

From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects?

Brandon Sanderson

The latter.

Skrimyt

Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be?

Brandon Sanderson

Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy.

But RAFO to specifics.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

or copies of the Vessel's soul

If they were all copies of the Vessel's soul, they all would be exactly the same. Every single Iriali would be the same.

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

The men often wear only waist wraps on warmer days.

Why does this matter?

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

In addition, they are the perfect connection between the appearance of the Iriali and the Asian aesthetics of the Utol system. (At this point we can also include the topic of writing.)

Is the language on Komashi also written top to bottom? And I was going to point out earlier that Selish languages were heavily inspired by Korean (to show that not everything Asian-inspired has to be connected to Virtuosity) but you've surprised me by including Selish people in your theory as well.

Overall, I think you did much better in argumenting for this theory than others before and it really sounds reasonable. I still don't like this idea and I'm not convinced by it, but you made a good job showing up different connections, tying it up together. I'm impressed.

Edit:

You also didn't go overboard suggesting that all of the infinite Shard is Splintered into Iriali, only part of it, which makes much more sense and it is possible without making everyone a walking God-King.

Edited February 12 by alder24

CtrlAltDepressed · February 12

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

You also didn't go overboard suggesting that all of the infinite Shard is Splintered into Iriali, only part of it, which makes much more sense and it is possible without making everyone a walking God-King.

Why does every splinter need to be comparable? What i mean is there is nothing saying that Endowment couldnt have chosen for the Divine Breath to be 10x what it is or only half as large.

Why does the innate investiture of the Iriali (who we have very few details about) matter to them being splinters? I would say all scadrians are at some level splinters of pres / ruin (harmony?) but they are still regular people as far as innate investiture is concerned.

Dofurion · February 12

3 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

My only issue with your theory is that this seems to line up more closely to the Intent of Wisdom / Prudence (unconfirmed)

I think the name of that Shard will end up being something very similar to "Vigilance". I am basing this on what was seen in Adamant, and that Valor ended up being canonized as a Shard.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Have you read TSM?

Yes, that was also one of the possibilities that I contemplated, but I always wanted to work in a framework where its religious logic was true, or at least it was true with the obvious modifications that something like that would have over the millennia.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Disagree. That's a speculation, not a conclusion. WoB 2 didn't say that. It said that Iriali are only slightly connected to Autonomy, but not in a meaningful way. There is no mention of their connection to another Shard.

The truth is that it is speculation on my part, but it is a logical result after all; at first, he said categorically no. But then he changed his mind and said that the relationship was slight. If they had a very close relationship with a Shard, they would have a slight relationship with all the others (such as nephews and uncles). The other option to make sense of this change of opinion was that Taldain or some of the planets where there is an avatar of Autonomy, were included in the Long Trail.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

I always had a problem with this theory, that Iriali are somehow a Shard. This doesn't fit because Iriali aren't invested enough to be considered Splinters. We've seen people who are Splinters - Returned hold a Splinter of Endowment, the Divine Breath. This is such an amount of investiture that it grants them the 5th Heightening alone, with functional immortality and big, visible color aura around them. Iriali have none of that. They age, they die, they have no color aura around them. They can't be Splinters of a Shard, pieces of a Shard, because they are not invested enough.

Precisely with Yumi we have an example that this rule is not always fulfilled, she is in fact much more invested than a Returned or even an Elantrine and does not generate such effects around her. In addition, we know that her life expectancy is equivalent to normal because she considers it that way.
I would also like to remember that the Iriali are mentioned as golden people, a description strangely similar to that of the Elantrian (silver people). The Elantrian are mechanically immortal because they are connected to the Dor, but are they still just as immortal outside of Sel? Assuming that we applied the same logic to the Iriali, with the largest volume of static investiture being in the Utol system and most likely their innate investiture being used to maintain the "copying system", would the Iriali still be immortal?

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

If they were all copies of the Vessel's soul, they all would be exactly the same. Every single Iriali would be the same.

Here we return to the paradox of the ship of Theseus. I think it is unnecessary to repeat it, assuming that, for example, You change bodies with your neighbor and then, while in his body, you hit your head and have amnesia, an event that happens to you in a traveled where you are alone. Are you 100% sure that you would act the same way? Can you be considered the same person?

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Why does this matter?

It's mostly context for the next part, referencing an artistic part of their culture that is not taken into account much and serves me for this connection:

15 hours ago, Dofurion said:

They are also known to paint their skin with colors and patterns.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Overall, I think you did much better in argumenting for this theory than others before and it really sounds reasonable. I still don't like this idea and I'm not convinced by it, but you made a good job showing up different connections, tying it up together. I'm impressed.

Honestly, thank you, I didn't know this theory already existed.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

You also didn't go overboard suggesting that all of the infinite Shard is Splintered into Iriali, only part of it, which makes much more sense and it is possible without making everyone a walking God-King

This arose naturally by associating them with the missing Hion line. In that context, they should be 1/3 of Virtuosity's investiture at most. If you want to add a 4th line of Hion it would be 1/4 of it but I am not convinced by that possibility given the properties of the investiture and the reason within color theory why black is added to the ink cartridges.

alder24 · February 12

22 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Why does every splinter need to be comparable? What i mean is there is nothing saying that Endowment couldnt have chosen for the Divine Breath to be 10x what it is or only half as large.

Why does the innate investiture of the Iriali (who we have very few details about) matter to them being splinters? I would say all scadrians are at some level splinters of pres / ruin (harmony?) but they are still regular people as far as innate investiture is concerned.

Because many theories assume that the entire Shard, which is almost infinite in investiture, was put into a finite group of people, which would result in them being ridiculously invested, much more than Returned are - and that's what I was talking about. Even here I disagree from using the terminology that are Iriali Splinters, they are not, they are not invested enough and they don't fit the definition, but they can still originate from a Shard - maybe just like Preservation sacrificed his mind to imprison Ruin, a Shard did the same to create Iriali, or at least invest them bit more. Sure you can make an argument that not every Splinter is equally invested (True Spren vs Lesser Spren), but they are still very invested. Just don't put the entire (or considerable) investiture of a Shard into a finite amount of people, because that would be visible like a God-King.

Having innate investiture doesn't make you into a Splinter, it brings them more to being a Sliver, but they are all far below the threshold to be considered as it. Splinters are not people, it's a power that became self-aware but has never been a human. Divine Breath isn't Returned - it just holds and invests Returned soul to its body, but it's not the soul of Returned. Divine Breath is unique because it isn't self-aware and it's innate investiture (that's why Brandon calls it in another WoB as kind of Splinter).

Spoiler

Zach

Also, would the Elantrians and the Lerasium-mistings be considered Slivers? Or is just the Lord Ruler and Vin Slivers (Via the Well)? Or do you need more power to be considered a Sliver?

Brandon Sanderson

Elantrians are not slivers. Mistborn trilogy spoiler warnings follow! The Lord Ruler was indeed a Sliver. So was Vin. For the rest, I would say probably not.

What defines an actual Sliver of Adonalsium is not as clear-cut as you might think. It's a term that in-universe people who study this have applied to various existences and states. Every single person on the world of Scadrial has a bit of Leras in them—a bit of the power of Preservation. Every single person has a bit of Ati in them. There's a certain threshold where these scholars would call you a Sliver of Adonalsium. But I would say that any regular Misting is probably not a Sliver. A full Lerasium Mistborn is getting closer, but people who have held one of the powers are what would probably be termed a Sliver by the definitions. If you hold all the power that makes you a Shard, but the Lord Ruler held a little bit of it and then let it go. From then on they referred to that change in him—the residue, what was left—as a Sliver. When he held it he became the Shard for a short time, and Vin was a Shard for a short time. After Vin gave up the power, what Kelsier is at the end of the trilogy—that's a Sliver of Adonalsium.

Goodreads Fantasy Book Discussion Warbreaker Q&A (Jan. 18, 2010)

Just had a question, when a Returned consumes a Breath, is it a property of their body that does so or the Divine Breath itself? It's been contentious in the community. If it's specifically just their body and a hemalurgist were to spike a Divine Breath as indicated was possible here*, would the hemalurgist not need to consume a weekly breath?

*https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11389

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very interesting question. The thing that requires the Returned to continue gaining investiture is their nature as cognitive shadows--they are dead, and in this case, need a power source to continue persisting in the physical realm. The Divine Breath is part of this. Imagine the Divine Breath as the thing that Infuses their soul, making it persist initially, and then and sticks it to the body. So if you stole it, but you yourself were not in need of being kept alive, I would say that you wouldn't need to be fed a new breath each week to maintain the Divine Breath.

General Reddit 2020 (Oct. 4, 2020)

36 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

If they had a very close relationship with a Shard, they would have a slight relationship with all the others (such as nephews and uncles)

That doesn't work like this. Scadrians have only a close relationship with Ruin and Preservation, they don't form Connections to other Shards unless they act in a specific way.

36 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

The other option to make sense of this change of opinion was that Taldain or some of the planets where there is an avatar of Autonomy, were included in the Long Trail.

Or another explanation - Iriali are Autonomous. They represent everything that Autonomy is a patron of. They are independent, always choosing their own path, being visibly different from other people and working to achieve their own goals, different from goals of other races. That is forming this slight Connection to Autonomy, but doesn't mean they are significantly Connected to another Shard. Shards represent concepts that are present in every corner of Cosmere. You could form Connection to them if you act in a specific way - like Kelsier was always destructive thus he had much greater Connection to Ruin than to Preservation and Kelsier also have "irrational" hatred for nobles - which can be indicative of Odium. But that Connection is just too weak to be meaningful. That's my explanation for Iriali's slight Connection to Autonomy.

He did, he did indeed.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

44 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

Precisely with Yumi we have an example that this rule is not always fulfilled, she is in fact much more invested than a Returned or even an Elantrine and does not generate such effects around her. In addition, we know that her life expectancy is equivalent to normal because she considers it that way.

Fair point - those effects can be either unnoticeable for an untrained eye or suppressed. However she won't die, she can age if she perceives herself that way, but not to the point of death - she's too invested for that as you observed. So why did Iriali die or not have an unnaturally long lifespan?

Spoiler

Cheyenne Sedai

Given what happens at the end of the book, is Yumi immortal now? If not, does she age?

Brandon Sanderson

Her perception is going to influence this. She's going to need a small bit of power to persist, but she is so highly invested that it would take a very long time for that to be noticeable. Particularly because she's not even using that power. There's no out let for it. She's a Cognitive Shadow, much like the Heralds or Vasher, that is more self sustaining because of how highly she is invested. Imagine someone like Vasher with thousands of Breaths. You're just never going to notice. But her perception of herself will cause her to age. Probably not to age to the point that she dies though. Basically the answer is yes. You've got an immortal being running a noodle shop in a backwater corner of the Cosmere.

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

48 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

I would also like to remember that the Iriali are mentioned as golden people, a description strangely similar to that of the Elantrian (silver people).

Elantrians glow, Iriali don't.

48 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

The Elantrian are mechanically immortal because they are connected to the Dor, but are they still just as immortal outside of Sel?

That's a good question. I think yes but they still need Dor to function - the Ire on Scadrial had to ingest liquid Dor to sustain themselves. They would probably still live but not be able to function well. It's hard to say.

Spoiler

Yourigath

Can you access the Dor while on other planets? Can you, I don't know, "tell the Dor" that you are on Roshar using an Aon that doesn't have the base on the map of Sel but in the world of Roshar and use Elantrian magic there? An Aon with an spiral pattern with the right lines, dots, etc... that tells the Dor "I'm here. This is Roshar. And I need your power to do X"

Brandon Sanderson

Great question, and one integral to the workings of cosmere Magic! No, you cannot currently access the Dor anywhere else. The Dor is a big part of why magic on Sel is distinctive.

Yourigath

If an Elantrian worldhops does it returns to a normal human pre-Shaod state? If this Elantrian goes back to Sel it recovers his Elantrian powers or he keeps his pre-Shaod form?

Brandon Sanderson

An Elantrian away from Sel would still be an Elantrian--but many of the visible signs would fade away, much like something florescent that stops glowing when moved away from a Black Light.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 22, 2015)

52 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

ssuming that we applied the same logic to the Iriali, with the largest volume of static investiture being in the Utol system and most likely their innate investiture being used to maintain the "copying system", would the Iriali still be immortal?

In my opinion, yes.

53 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

Here we return to the paradox of the ship of Theseus. I think it is unnecessary to repeat it, assuming that, for example, You change bodies with your neighbor and then, while in his body, you hit your head and have amnesia, an event that happens to you in a traveled where you are alone. Are you 100% sure that you would act the same way? Can you be considered the same person?

They are "copies" so yes, they would look the same, have the same DNA and all that stuff. It's not the ship of Theseus, it's just genetics. Environment they live in would affect their personality and health, but they would look the same, like identical twins. It's more similar to what Autonomy is doing with Avatars - she's roleplaying - but taken to the extreme )of course Iriali are not Avatars). Every single Iriali is unique - after all that's the core thesis of the One, to experience everything, which can't be done if they are all copies.

57 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

It's mostly context for the next part, referencing an artistic part of their culture that is not taken into account much and serves me for this connection:

Their clothing doesn't really matter or provide any context in my opinion. The next statement is self-explanatory and works on its own.

59 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

Honestly, thank you, I didn't know this theory already existed.

Not Virtuosity being the One, I haven't seen that one, but that finally makes enough sense to me to make it plausible. Still, I'm not a fan of it but I'll be watching out for more evidence.

Dofurion · February 12

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Or another explanation - Iriali are Autonomous. They represent everything that Autonomy is a patron of. They are independent, always choosing their own path, being visibly different from other people and working to achieve their own goals, different from goals of other races. That is forming this slight Connection to Autonomy, but doesn't mean they are significantly Connected to another Shard. Shards represent concepts that are present in every corner of Cosmere. You could form Connection to them if you act in a specific way - like Kelsier was always destructive thus he had much greater Connection to Ruin than to Preservation and Kelsier also have "irrational" hatred for nobles - which can be indicative of Odium. But that Connection is just too weak to be meaningful. That's my explanation for Iriali's slight Connection to Autonomy.

Yes, that's a good explanation too.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Elantrians glow, Iriali don't.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the Elantrines we've seen outside of Sel that don't have an investiture fountain nearby look duller.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

They are "copies" so yes, they would look the same, have the same DNA and all that stuff. It's not the ship of Theseus, it's just genetics. Environment they live in would affect their personality and health, but they would look the same, like identical twins. It's more similar to what Autonomy is doing with Avatars - she's roleplaying - but taken to the extreme )of course Iriali are not Avatars). Every single Iriali is unique - after all that's the core thesis of the One, to experience everything, which can't be done if they are all copies.

I think I explained myself wrong, if you understood that.
I do not mean that they are clones or standard copies; I mean that their Spiritual Ideal would be what was copied; this clearly would not include their identity (the identity of the vessel).
Obviously, the Iriali would be biologically different from each other, if anything those who would be the same could have been their "inhuman ancestors" but precisely for there to be any difference between them and the modern Iriali at some point they had to mix with humans.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Not Virtuosity being the One, I haven't seen that one, but that finally makes enough sense to me to make it plausible. Still, I'm not a fan of it but I'll be watching out for more evidence.

I would appreciate it, after all these theories need to be updated over time.

Edited February 12 by Dofurion

teknopathetic · February 13

Damn. I think you are correct. This makes a lot of sense.

iriali splinters of Virtuosity?

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