Strategically Utilizing F-Electrum

[Trusk'our he/him]

There have been threads that have talked about Feruchemical electrum before, but some good points were made as to its limitations; you can't realistically expect to use it all the time (you have to store it to Tap it, after all), and having a maniacal sense of determination can only get you so far.

So, in what ways could you Tap determination to get the most out of it?

1. Forming positive habits: I know from personal experience that it can be very hard to start good habits, as anything worthwhile takes effort. However, if one could choose to Tap some determination right before a workout, avoiding overeating at mealtime for a diet, or starting your homework early, it could be massively beneficial, especially since you wouldn't need to do this forever as after you had formed the habit you would no longer need as much determination to keep it going.

2. Getting "in the zone": it can take between 20 - 90 minutes to enter the Flow state when focusing on a task. I'm not sure if Tapping determination would make this faster or whether it merely makes it emotionally easier to start and keep up the task, but at the very least you could Tap determination to help get started on a task, then slowly wean yourself of the artificial boost once you've achieved proper focus.

I imagine this would take some real practice to do as you'll naturally be focused on the task you're currently working on, but it could be a worthwhile skill for a Pinnacle Ferring.

3. Resisting addictions: just as Tapping determination can make it easier to form good habits, I'm sure it can help when trying to break down bad ones, particularly addictive behaviors. As someone who's been a close friend of a recovering addict (I will give no more details in this area), I know it can be so, so very hard to separate yourself from such a self-destructive behavior, but when you're about doing your daily stuff it's not nearly so hard.

However, there are times that come where temptations to indulge in your addiction becomes, unfortunately, more available (or a craving simply come up unexpectantly), making it very hard to resist giving in. This is where Tapping determination would come in handy, as you mostly just need to resist until the urge fades away, and it will get easier to resist in due time.

Anyway, are there any more tactics for Tapping determination that people can share?

[Duxredux he/him]

Sorry @Trusk'our, I was trying to come up with positive use cases but mostly thought of risks and hazardous use scenarios.

One circumstance that would be very tempting but extremely risky is athletic events. It's totally possibly for athletes to push themselves to unhealthy limits and that's without magically enhanced determination. I used to run cross country and periodically we would have runners go so hard that they would throw up, and I personally ran with shin splints for months before someone told me that much pain while running wasn't normal. I totally believe that some athletes would run themselves dead if given access to F-Electrum. F-Electrum to start a workout? Sure. F-Electrum during a workout or competition? Risky.

The flip side is that determination probably can and will help you push you body past safe limits in survival scenarios. Lost in the mountains? Need to walk 5 miles on a broken leg? Last a bit longer until search and rescue finds you? It won't be pretty, but if it gets you to medical care it's better than dying in the middle of nowhere. The main risk is if the increase in determination leads to irrational decisions, so it's a gamble and a balancing act.

The commentary on addictive behavior made me wonder if there's risk of addiction to F-Electrum. It's a mind-altering process and people get addicted to both stimulants and depressants all the time. Now there wouldn't be sensory or motor function impairment, so risk of DUI or overdose is out, but if there's a chemical response in the brain that is caused by F-Electrum without magical protection, then it can be addictive. Now clearly not all potentially addictive behavior causes addiction, like shopping, eating, or media, but the very nature of the cyclical pattern of F-Electrum is worrying and would make want to keep a very close eye on any friend that was a Pinnacle Ferring. Having depression be the default that can always be accessed and must be experienced to get a limited supply of determination could be problematic.

This Feruchemical power more than most needs a positive use case for active storage and I'm not sure what that would be. There's a WoB that caffeine could potentially be used to store wakefulness in a Bronzemind, but that tapping that storage would produce some of the physiological effects of caffeine, so trying to offset F-Electrum with medication or stimulants probably would have similar issues.

Hm... actually, continuing with that idea, people can store at unhealthy levels with Feruchemy. It might be possible to break your mind during active storage in order to glimpse the Cognitive and or Spiritual Realm. Madness and poor mental health have high significance in the Cosmere and being able to do a controlled high dive off the mental catastrophe curve and come back up on demand might have important ramifications. It would probably be a disturbing and fascinating read if a Pinnacle Ferring was trying to track someone operating in the Cognitive Realm.

Yeah... I'm trying to think of ways to offset the depressive state and I'm not coming with practical methods. Depressive episodes as a byproduct of trying to establish good habits, addiction recovery, or increased productivity sounds like it could backfire. Longterm low level storage is probably known as dysthymia, or chronic mild depression and it has its own set of issues separate from major depression.

[Rorzikel]

Given that the ars arcanum describes storing as entering a depressed state and tapping as entering a manic state, it’s clear to me that the primary use-case for Electrum Feruchemy is treatment of bipolar disorder. A person with the condition could store when they’re naturally experiencing mania and tap when they’re experiencing a depressive cycle.

This is probably the safest and least prone to abuse as one would be consistently baseline; no need to be constantly depressed to buildup the storage or requiring compounding which would be easily abusable into just being Feruchemic meth.

[Voidlit Man he/him]

On 1/25/2024 at 5:14 PM, Rorzikel said:

Given that the ars arcanum describes storing as entering a depressed state and tapping as entering a manic state, it’s clear to me that the primary use-case for Electrum Feruchemy is treatment of bipolar disorder. A person with the condition could store when they’re naturally experiencing mania and tap when they’re experiencing a depressive cycle.

This is probably the safest and least prone to abuse as one would be consistently baseline; no need to be constantly depressed to buildup the storage or requiring compounding which would be easily abusable into just being Feruchemic meth.

That's what my mind immediately went to upon reading the Ars Arcanum, but I think it could be applicable anywhere. Normal people have manic and depressive episodes. Not as often or as extreme as people with Bipolar Disorder, but being aware could allow you to regulate your mood a little easier

[Pineap-spider Pineapple/Spider]

On 1/22/2024 at 5:07 AM, Duxredux said:

The commentary on addictive behavior made me wonder if there's risk of addiction to F-Electrum. It's a mind-altering process and people get addicted to both stimulants and depressants all the time. Now there wouldn't be sensory or motor function impairment, so risk of DUI or overdose is out, but if there's a chemical response in the brain that is caused by F-Electrum without magical protection, then it can be addictive. Now clearly not all potentially addictive behavior causes addiction, like shopping, eating, or media, but the very nature of the cyclical pattern of F-Electrum is worrying and would make want to keep a very close eye on any friend that was a Pinnacle Ferring. Having depression be the default that can always be accessed and must be experienced to get a limited supply of determination could be problematic.

This brings up the idea of "can you get addicted to Investiture? I'm not going to use quotes, but there are many points it SA that the Radients talk about feeling incomplete without stormlight, and how their body feels refreshed and a lot better when they hold it. Are they addicted to stormlight? The same thing goes to say about breaths, possibly even more so, as They quite literally feel incomplete without the breath ( this might just be the complete lack of breath, but i digress)  Savants are over using their metal and end up damaging their spirit web, but get enhanced abilities from the practice. Are savants just addicted to burning metal?

I honestly don't know, and could be remembering passages wrong or misunderstanding the context of certain statements, But it raises a lot of questions regardless. I expect that there are people who don't think that if Kaladin lost access to stormlight, he would fall and be extra depressed, but I do. I believe that if only to a small extent, you can get addicted to investiture. Feel free to disagree, i'd like to hear what other (probably better informed people) think.

[Duxredux he/him]

42 minutes ago, Pineap-spider said:

This brings up the idea of "can you get addicted to Investiture? I'm not going to use quotes, but there are many points it SA that the Radients talk about feeling incomplete without stormlight, and how their body feels refreshed and a lot better when they hold it. Are they addicted to stormlight? The same thing goes to say about breaths, possibly even more so, as They quite literally feel incomplete without the breath ( this might just be the complete lack of breath, but i digress)  Savants are over using their metal and end up damaging their spirit web, but get enhanced abilities from the practice. Are savants just addicted to burning metal?

I honestly don't know, and could be remembering passages wrong or misunderstanding the context of certain statements, But it raises a lot of questions regardless. I expect that there are people who don't think that if Kaladin lost access to stormlight, he would fall and be extra depressed, but I do. I believe that if only to a small extent, you can get addicted to investiture. Feel free to disagree, i'd like to hear what other (probably better informed people) think.

Yup, you're not the only one to notice this and it is intentional.

Quote

Questioner

In Mistborn, Allomancy tends to get a little addictive, is that something that's going to happen with Stormlight—holding it just because it feels good?

Brandon Sanderson

You are noticing a similarity. That is intentional.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

[Pineap-spider Pineapple/Spider]

10 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Yup, you're not the only one to notice this and it is intentional.

 

Thanks for that WoB, I couldn't find anything, and if that's intentional, i wonder how it'll come into play in future

[Returned]

I think that fiddling with your mental state is probably one of the most dangerous areas to apply Cosmere magics. F-electrum might be especially so since the effect always requires your choice to initiate and maintain. In an example like addiction, would the choice to sap your motivation to indulge help blunt the urge to do so? Or would the compulsion to service the addiction simply lead to stopping the storage of motivation?

An interesting (to me) side-question: could someone aggressively storing determination fall into a rut, unable to form and execute the desire to stop the storage, until their metalmind is full?

[Trusk'our he/him]

20 hours ago, Returned said:

I think that fiddling with your mental state is probably one of the most dangerous areas to apply Cosmere magics. F-electrum might be especially so since the effect always requires your choice to initiate and maintain. In an example like addiction, would the choice to sap your motivation to indulge help blunt the urge to do so? Or would the compulsion to service the addiction simply lead to stopping the storage of motivation?

It could go either way from what I can guess at this time; if your motivation is to stop the addiction, Storing might harm your strength of will to stop. If your motivation is to find a way to indulge in your addiction, Storing might possibly be beneficial, at least for a little while.

20 hours ago, Returned said:

An interesting (to me) side-question: could someone aggressively storing determination fall into a rut, unable to form and execute the desire to stop the storage, until their metalmind is full?

That. . . would be a scary possibility. I suppose if you deliberately had only a very small Electrummind it could be less dangerous though.

[Duxredux he/him]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:33 AM, Returned said:

An interesting (to me) side-question: could someone aggressively storing determination fall into a rut, unable to form and execute the desire to stop the storage, until their metalmind is full?

Eh, if you're too unmotivated to move, you'll eventually pass out or fall asleep and automatically stop storing. Not healthy, but probably not fatal.

The default state of a Feruchemist isn't to store. If anything I would expect you to lose the will to hold the active storage, not somehow get forced into maintaining something that requires constant Intent. If Determination is at all related to Intent, you may not be able to generate sufficient Intent to maintain Feruchemical storage in extreme cases.

[Crow he/him]

I wonder if there is a mental health resource for people with F-elecrum depression