Aethling Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Sanderson also has a tendency to pick words that have broad or several meanings. Cultivation is the perfect example. It can mean anything from cultural refinement to growing stuff. Devotion could lean toward love or blind faith. I think I can see why Odium would want to kill the three specific shards mentioned. Those three really do make some sense as being something that could step in the way of hatred. I wouldn't really be surprised if it came out that Devotion and Dominion were actually working together at one point much like Ruin and Preservation had the bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 No, Saz hasn't got an ounce of Dominion in him. But he have a lot of Unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I'm coming to this topic a bit late, but I think a lot of people are making the same mistake about harmony as they are Devotion, Devotion isn't quite the same as Love, Harmony is quite different from Balance, things don't have to be the same, or even in balance to be harmonious, think about music, a harmony isn't (generally) an octave out and the same note, but a 3rd or a 5th. Harmony has aspects of Balance but its more about agreement and acceptance, adding devotion and dominion to that would be difficult to make into one word, but it would involve leadership inspiring unity, adding Honour would make an excellent Monarch... it would also make for a combination of intents that would make quite a counter to odium, preservation of self, ruin of the enemy and the devotion to see the job done... not sure how Dominion fits in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triasmus Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I don't think Harmony counts as something we can go and look at definitions of and find out something important for exactly why Brandon named Sazed Harmony. I've always taken it as the people just decided to call Sazed Harmony because they didn't want to go about saying "Sazed" or "Ruin/Preservation". They just decided to call him Harmony because the Ruin half and the Preservation half are working in harmony under the direction of Sazed's consciousness. Harmony is just a name given to the mix of Ruin and Preservation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Well, as an example of a ruler with dominion and honor we can look at Elizabeth I. I chose her because I happen to be attending a weekly event at the library about her for the next few weeks. Others would perceivably work just as well. Any lawful monarch by defintion will have Dominion. She refused to turn Mary over the the Scotish lords because she new Mary would probably die.-Honor Her main goal for much of her reign was to bring about stability and preserve the nation-Preservation She was not above executing disdents or traitors (see Norfolk and northern Lords)-Ruin She deeply cared about her people, nobles and commons included-Devotion. Yes, it is not exact, but seemingly antagonistic shards can work together under the same umbrella/holder. Edited April 11, 2012 by Aethling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesh Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 A question we need to ask ourselves is is reuniting the Shards even a good idea? Look at what happened on Sel with its shards shattered or when Preservation was on its last legs. To runite the shards they'd have to be in one cenral location and who knows what would happen to the places that lost their shards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Can the universe really afford for the shards NOT to be reunited. Look at what Odium alone has done. Ruin left alone would probably have been even worse, but it had its direct counterpart on the same world to limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think Devotion and Dominion are counterparts. Dominion wants everything to subordinate. It is Hierachy, in a way. Devotion, on the other hand, does not rank itself in a precedence. It wants to help and assist everyone, but without subordinating. You can see this intent when you look at the Seons. They also don't see themselves as servants, but as protector. And I think Odium is a pair with Honor. Because Honor wants to bind things. It can also be trust and/or naivity. I suppose that Odium's intent is that thought: "They are bad. I am good." It's the thing that Kaladin feels during the battles. It's the intention to seperate things. Into "us and them", "you and me", or, in the worst case: "Me and everyone else". This is the reason Odium revolted against the other Shardholders: His intent is seperating himself from all the others. His intent is rebellion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddlesinthedark Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Pure speculation, but it seems like it would be difficult to hold multiple Shards. Based on what Chaos said, it stands to reason that every time you picked up an additional Shard, you'd (metaphorically) start being pulled from another direction. You'd be ripped apart after a while. Also, a sort of related note. I'm seeing potential for confusion here, but as I understand, "harmony" is not an aspect of a Shard, it's just a name for Sazed. Sazed is the shard, with aspects of Ruin and Preservation. Right? Or the Hoid gambit works, were he gathers a bit/splinter of all the Shards of Adonalisium and it start to grow back together. Similar, in my mind, to how the gauntlet of Shard plate could have been cultivated into a full suit by the Parshendi, had Dalinar fallen off a cliff or been eaten by a chasmfiend or something. Edited September 1, 2012 by Voldy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddlesinthedark Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think Devotion and Dominion are counterparts. Dominion wants everything to subordinate. It is Hierachy, in a way. Devotion, on the other hand, does not rank itself in a precedence. It wants to help and assist everyone, but without subordinating. You can see this intent when you look at the Seons. They also don't see themselves as servants, but as protector. And I think Odium is a pair with Honor. Because Honor wants to bind things. It can also be trust and/or naivity. I suppose that Odium's intent is that thought: "They are bad. I am good." It's the thing that Kaladin feels during the battles. It's the intention to seperate things. Into "us and them", "you and me", or, in the worst case: "Me and everyone else". This is the reason Odium revolted against the other Shardholders: His intent is seperating himself from all the others. His intent is rebellion. I could be wrong, but I swear there is a WoB quote running around about how not all the shards have a pairing the way Ruin/Preservation were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I could be wrong, but I swear there is a WoB quote running around about how not all the shards have a pairing the way Ruin/Preservation were. He said not all were opposites, he never mentioned pairing. I always wondered if holding a piece of a shard (A splinter) would allow you to regrow the rest of the shard so long as certain prerequisits are met, which would allow for Devotion and Dominion to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 CHAOSAre Shards all paired? Does Endowment have a counterpart? BRANDON SANDERSON RAFO. Also, yes and no. Not all Shards have perfect counterparts like Ruin and Preservation. QUESTION Why were Ruin and Preservation linked together? BRANDON SANDERSON Because they're such perfect opposites. Basically it's just an opposites attract thing. Source The way that I interpret this, is that every Shard may be one of a pair, but that their partner isn't necessarily their opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewstherin95 Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 Pure speculation, but it seems like it would be difficult to hold multiple Shards. Based on what Chaos said, it stands to reason that every time you picked up an additional Shard, you'd (metaphorically) start being pulled from another direction. You'd be ripped apart after a while. Also, a sort of related note. I'm seeing potential for confusion here, but as I understand, "harmony" is not an aspect of a Shard, it's just a name for Sazed. Sazed is the shard, with aspects of Ruin and Preservation. Right? When Sazed took both Ruin and Preservation he realized that they were meant to be together, and he wonders how they ever got separated. While this is an allusion to Adonalsium having been Shattered, it also shows that having Shards with opposing Intents is unlikely to "pull" you apart or drive you insane as Wisdom theorizes below. (I don't have the books with me so I don't have the exact quote.) Wisdom does bring up an interesting point about how the magics might not fit together, much like Vin couldn't use Sazed's stored Strength, but I think this is more likely because she didn't have the sDNA required to access Sazed's Strength, while if a Shard was held it would change your sDNA so that you could access both Shards, as it must have with Sazed since he is now "in charge of" Preservation, and therefore, Allomancy. Sazed is currently in balance because the Shards he holds, Preservation and Ruin, cancel each other out perfectly. Sanderson has stated this is not always true with all the others, although it seems logical that as a whole they must have resulted in perfect balance, they were after all merely aspects of one power - Adonalsium. As to picking up Shards, I think there is a problem with that. Odium doesn't pick up Shards because doing so would inevitably change his own personality. Sazed sort of has the same problem, adding a new shard would upset the balance he has - he would no longer be a free agent with his own mind but would gradually fall under the shard's influence. It also seems to me that those who have held and been changed by the Shards might not even be able to pick up others because of the change, they would suddenly have a new force inside that wouldn't fit with their current one and the one that has so dominated and moulded their psyche. It might even drive them insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) Riddle me this: Do we want Adonalsium back? Also: It also seems to me that those who have held and been changed by the Shards might not even be able to pick up others because of the change, they would suddenly have a new force inside that wouldn't fit with their current one and the one that has so dominated and moulded their psyche. It might even drive them insane. I'm fairly sure any shards can be together, even total opposites. The only instance of you being unable to pick up a shard is if it doesn't want you to (Like the mists only took Vin.) or your current Shard's intent forbids it (May upset balance, you hate it too much, etc). Edited September 14, 2012 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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