+Oltux72 he/him Posted January 9, 2024 Posted January 9, 2024 What kind of Light were spheres filled when Ishar opens a perpendicularity in your vincinity? If, theoretically, he were to do so on Braize, would it change?
alder24 Posted January 9, 2024 Posted January 9, 2024 2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: What kind of Light were spheres filled when Ishar opens a perpendicularity in your vincinity? If, theoretically, he were to do so on Braize, would it change? Stormlight. It's a Bondsmith power, he's using his Honorblade. Ishar is still pulling from Honor. And yes, it would work on Braize too - Stormlight comes from SR and it's still within the Rosharan system. Another question is if Ishar with his Honorblade can renew the light of spheres at all, or is it just bonded Bondsmiths powers. Navani can create Towerlight, Dalinar Stormlight, Nightwatcher Bondsmitch probably can make Lifelight. I think Ishar can pull Stormlight with a perpendicularity. Spoiler Questioner Dalinar Ascends, right? Like, right then, there. Brandon Sanderson I have RAFO'd that. Whether he is Ascending or not is a RAFO. Questioner Okay, because I know he kind of mentions from that, I don't know how to say his name but the older guy who has the Diagram-- Brandon Sanderson Taravangian, yeah. Whether that deserves to be a capital "A" or not is a matter of argument. It can be disputed. Questioner I guess my main question would just be Dalinar's now able to pull Stormlight and give it to people now. Brandon Sanderson He definitely can. That is a Bondsmith power, so. Questioner That is a Bondsmith power, okay. Brandon Sanderson That is specifically a Bondsmith power. Questioner Because my roommate was saying well, the Stormfather was surprised he could do that or was the Stormfather surprised that he was able to bridge-- Brandon Sanderson He was surprised by what was happening to Dalinar as a whole. Questioner Oh okay, that's what I thought because I was like, because I felt like the Stormlight, that power would be a Bondsmith power. Brandon Sanderson Let's say that the Stormfather and Odium were seeing something in Dalinar that, perhaps, the average person watching even who is knowledgeable about Surges would not completely understand... But he will be able to use that power and Bondsmiths in the past have used that same power. Footnote: Brandon clarified that he might have been unintentionally misleading in his answers to this question during his Stormlight 4 Update 1. Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018) Spoiler Questioner In the cosmere we've seen Investiture manifest in different ways all across the systems. So I was wondering, when it comes to the powers of Dalinar, is it possible for that power to open a Perpendicularity anywhere, say on Scadrial or any different planet? In a different way, where you could potentially combine all the Realms, open the doors for the Realms. Brandon Sanderson Let me say this very carefully. I'm being recorded now... Any time where you gather the right amount of Investiture in the right way, you are going to have kind of a version of a cosmere singularity, right? Which is where you are pulling the different Realms together into a kind of-- you are piercing between them with a large amount of Investiture. So what's happening with Dalinar is both the bug and the feature at the same time. But it is not necessarily the only way. And once things are kind of, once the Spiritual Realm is being involved, time and space don't mean anything anymore on the Spiritual Realm. That's your answer. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)
Zrogezrg Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 Ishar's perpendicularity is kind of interesting in a way that, it is not clear to me, from where is investiture coming from. In case of Dalinar, it is most likely Stormfather's Investiture being concentrated to allow for 3 realms to collapse into one. Is it explained anywhere whether the source of investiture in spheres comes from spiritual realm or the Stormfather? Mantaining singularity is taxing on Dalinar, but this must be something that can not be fully-countered by stormlight, so it is propably something to do with Connection etc. Ishar singularity - either: - Ishar has access to some being with large amount of investiture - Ishar himself is invested enough - Bondsmith honourblade is the source of investiture - Bondsmith singularities somehow work differently - Ishar is doing Bondsmith singularity differently or some combinations of those. Now depending on how it works, Ishar would or would not be able to open singularity somewhere else. If he is takes Investiture from Honor, not sure if he could do it on Scadrial. And if the investiture comes from spiritual realm and not from the source of investiture used to open it, then, we can only speculate to which shard would the Investuture be connected to. Maybe if you are humming properly, you can get anti-investiture singularity ;).
LewsTherinTelescope Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 13 hours ago, Zrogezrg said: Is it explained anywhere whether the source of investiture in spheres comes from spiritual realm or the Stormfather? In the highstorm it's from the Spiritual Realm through the Stormfather, so for the perpendicularity it's presumably straight from the Spiritual. 13 hours ago, Zrogezrg said: - Bondsmith singularities somehow work differently This would be my guess, personally. You can brute force a perpendicularity with enough Investiture, but Elsecallers are also able to create them with significantly less power in order to transition, so that's not the only way. Dalinar describes it as grabbing a Realm in each hand and bringing them together, so probably a Bondsmith perpendicularity works off different mechanics. 1
Zrogezrg Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 So to summarize: - investiture in perpendicularity comes from spiritual realm (most likely) - it can be open by accumulating ton of investiture or some form of invested art (bondsmithing, elsecalling) So to answer the question: On 1/9/2024 at 10:59 PM, Oltux72 said: If, theoretically, he were to do so on Braize, would it change? I would say that this would most likely be stormlight, Braize is in Rosharian planetary system so Connection to Honor investiture should not be an issue. But if it was done on Scadrial, there could be some connection stuff happening to planet or/and it's CR and it could be filled with something like invested mist (Preservation/Harmony light)? Or could Ishar possible do some more bondsmithing and get light connected to any shard if he had some connection to it previously? There is also an issue with Herald leaving the system so it might be even less straight forward...
+Oltux72 he/him Posted January 11, 2024 Author Posted January 11, 2024 On 1/9/2024 at 11:11 PM, alder24 said: Stormlight. It's a Bondsmith power, he's using his Honorblade. Ishar is still pulling from Honor. And yes, it would work on Braize too - Stormlight comes from SR and it's still within the Rosharan system. That implies that at least 16 kinds of perpendicularity exist. Is there evidence for that? Whose perpendicularity was the one in The Lost Metal ? 6 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: In the highstorm it's from the Spiritual Realm through the Stormfather, so for the perpendicularity it's presumably straight from the Spiritual. As it comes through the Stormfather it makes sense that it ought to be stormlight. But Ishar is not bound to the Stormfather. What determines the type of light?
alder24 Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 10 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: This would be my guess, personally. You can brute force a perpendicularity with enough Investiture, but Elsecallers are also able to create them with significantly less power in order to transition, so that's not the only way. Dalinar describes it as grabbing a Realm in each hand and bringing them together, so probably a Bondsmith perpendicularity works off different mechanics. It looks like Dalinar doesn't need Stormlight to open perpendicularity and perpendicularity can't be open because of concentration of investiture only in SR - SR is spaceless. I think what's happening is that Dalinar is opening an active conduit of Honor's investiture from SR through CR into PR, and that flow of investiture - Stormlight - keeps his perpendicularity from collapsing. Bondsmith's perpendicularity is different from a Shardpool, which is just static investiture concentrated in PR, massive enough to pierce realms. And because there is an active flow of investiture from SR into PR, it fills spheres with light, unlike any other perpendicularity. Spoiler Questioner In our universe, mass and energy curve space. I was wondering if Investiture does the same or something similar. Brandon Sanderson It does something similar. It draws the three Realms together. So it's got like-- Imagine a gravitational pull piercing Realms. Right? Of kind of-- Questioner And that's how a perpendicularity works? Brandon Sanderson That's not the only way a perpendicularity works, but one surefire way to create a perpendicularity is a massive collection of Investiture in the Cognitive or mostly Physical realm. But Cognitive's weird, doesn't always work the right way. But there are ways to do it that way too. Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017) 4 hours ago, Zrogezrg said: I would say that this would most likely be stormlight, Braize is in Rosharian planetary system so Connection to Honor investiture should not be an issue. But if it was done on Scadrial, there could be some connection stuff happening to planet or/and it's CR and it could be filled with something like invested mist (Preservation/Harmony light)? Or could Ishar possible do some more bondsmithing and get light connected to any shard if he had some connection to it previously? There is also an issue with Herald leaving the system so it might be even less straight forward... Location doesn't matter when you can reach into SR. The Spiritual Realm is spaceless, if you can reach there, you will grab investiture of your Shard wherever you are. Dalinar can be on Threnody and still be able to reach into SR and grab Honor's investiture and push Stormlight out. It's just like with Allomancy, you can use it anywhere in Cosmere and you will be always drawing from Preservation, no matter where you are. If Dalinar can leave Rosharan system somehow, he would be able to open a perpendicularity no matter where he is and he will be drawing from Honor even if he's on Scadrial - in the same way Allomancy always draws from Preservation. Only Selish magics are location based and they can't be used outside of Sel without hacking them. Spoiler Questioner Mistborn travels to Roshar, what does he or she use to get Invested? Brandon Sanderson *pause* So. *pause* I think I've talked about this before on the 17th Shard, but I'm not 100% sure and so I don't want to anything right now, not knowing what I've said. But you can look it up. You can ask Peter. Hey Peter, have I talked about someone using-- Have I ever in an interview before talked about using metals... A Mistborn travels to Roshar and uses the metals there? Peter Ahlstrom I think that you have said that they could do it. Brandon Sanderson I said it. Okay, so the thing about the metals you have to understand is the metals are a key, the metals are not magical themselves, except for specific ones. If I've already said that I can tell you, go to Roshar and you could use the metals that are there to power your Allomancy because the difference is in your soul and you're actually drawing directly from Preservation. Remember that on the Spiritual Realm, this is the big tidbit--they're listening. On the Spiritual Realm time, distance, and space are irrelevant. It's a place where time and space are compounded in one. So anything that exists on the Spiritual Realm, space doesn't matter for it. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) Spoiler Questioner So we know that you can't just have someone-- If someone were to do something similar to Hoid, he can't just pop and go "Oh look, I can now do Allomancy or I can now do Surgebinding". What about Breath? If someone could somebody get Breath-- Maybe not *audio obscured* Could they still get the benefits of-- Brandon Sanderson Oh, good question... Yes you can, actually. Breath is-- Once it is given to you, it is being keyed to you. Your Identity. So that transfer makes it yours to use however you want. Questioner So you could Awaken? Brandon Sanderson You could Awaken. If you-- If you were to somehow make it there, you would be able to Awaken. It's the easiest of magic systems to get the magic from, and then to manipulate. Because it has keyed into it Identity. Questioner *audio obscured* Brandon Sanderson Yes, you can take Breath onto another world. In fact, you've seen characters do this. Questioner *audio obscured* Brandon Sanderson It would work, yes. Questioner *audio obscured* Brandon Sanderson Yes, it would work the same way. The only magic that is location-dependent-- The ones who aren't interested in this, just hum to yourself, okay? *laughter* You don't need to know any of this stuff to enjoy the books, okay? I write them so that you could just-- each series can be read independently, and enjoyed. There is behind the scenes stuff, and if you want to dig, it goes pretty deep. So on Sel, we have AonDor. AonDor is based on the fact that the Dor, which is an amalgamation of Dominion and Devotion, has been pressed together and stuffed into the Cognitive Realm by Odium who didn't want it to gain sentience, as Investiture will do if it is left alone. It will either seek someone to be its Vessel or it will gain sentience. He pressed it in there; he pressed it together, which creates the violent reaction, because those two intents are opposed. And that is the foundation of the magic. Because it's stuck in the Cognitive Realm rather than the Spiritual Realm (the Spiritual Realm is location-independent; Cognitive Realm is location-dependent), it makes the magic on Sel only work in close proximity to what is keyed through there to the location they're keyed to. This has to do with Identity and Connection. Mostly Connection. So that means you can't do AonDor on another planet, but you can do other magics works anywhere, because they're drawing the magics specifically through either the place, or they're end-neutral, like Breath is, and you don't need any extra power. Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) 3 hours ago, Oltux72 said: That implies that at least 16 kinds of perpendicularity exist. Is there evidence for that? Whose perpendicularity was the one in The Lost Metal ? Perpendicularity is just that, a massive concentration of investiture piercing realms - one thing. But you can use different types of investiture to open a perpendicularity. However it doesn't matter what type of investiture you're using, it still does the same thing. But generating lights is a different thing. Jasnah's perpendicularity doesn't fill spheres with Stormlight, nor do Oathgates or Shardpools do that - that's a unique ability of Bondsmiths to generate lights and pull investiture from SR to fill spheres in PR, just like the Stormfather can do that. Bondsmiths only can do that. Perpendicularity in TLM was an accident at first. It started manifesting due to the large concentration of Metalborns in the area. But the Set carried investiture from off world to open it, and that's most likely was pure Dor, because it was unkeyed investiture that every Allomancer could use. TLM ch 59: Quote “It takes special circumstances to create one of these portals,” he said. “Even for her. Can’t just be anywhere, or anytime.” He turned, looking over his shoulder. “The timing gave us a deadline.” Rusts. That room behind him … that was where the portal would open, wasn’t it? She’d assumed there would be some kind of gateway, but it was the ground that was glowing. Rusts … maybe he hadn’t wanted a big mansion out of pride. Maybe they’d built it here to hide the fact that the portal, whatever it was, would appear here. “The location…” he said, turning back. “I think it’s because of those people, oddly. Such a large collection of Metalborn. And we were required to bring in a strange power, a glowing light. That’s part of the key.” 4 hours ago, Oltux72 said: As it comes through the Stormfather it makes sense that it ought to be stormlight. But Ishar is not bound to the Stormfather. What determines the type of light? He draws from Honor. That is what makes it Stormlight. It's not just that the Stormfather can reach into SR, he pulls investiture from Honor and Honor only. The same goes for both Dalinar and Ishar, but Ishar draws directly from Honor, while Dalinar is doing this through the Stormfather I think (because it's the spren that grants Radiant their powers). 2
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