Voidlit Man Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 I don't know what is spoiler or not, so I'll play it safe Stormlight 5 Potential spoilers Spoiler We know in the 5th book that Szeth and Kaladin are traveling together for a large part of the book. They haven't really interacted besides when Szeth was tasked with killing Dalinar, and I would bet that they won't get along. Kaladin and Szeth both pride themselves in their flight skills and their job to protect Dalinar, and both have different ideologies and views that are known to have conflicted in the past. Past Skybreakers and Windrunners did not get along, as evidenced by this Truthwatcher Quote The disagreements between the Skybreakers and the Windrunners have grown to tragic levels. I plead with any who hear this to recognize you are not so different as you think I would bet that at some point they will differ on whether to follow the "spirit" or "letter" of the law, and will not agree until at some later point in the book, they agree on something important. They have ample reason to at least conflict with each other, and this is what I bet will happen 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underwater_Worldhopper Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 (edited) I saw the title of this thread, realised Kaladin still doesnt have a romantic interest, and thought this thread was going in a very different direction Edited January 6 by Underwater_Worldhopper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted January 6 Report Share Posted January 6 One thing that is apparent from Szeth's development throughout the series is just how amazing a fighter he is. Arguably, Szeth has more feats when it comes to fighting (like taking out a small army) than Kaladin, but Kaladin by winning duels shows his superior skill. I hope they become besties. After all, the new generation of heralds should get along 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrose Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 I also have a strange inkling that although they will definitely be in conflict in the beginning, I’m guessing they will eventually become friends and grow a stronger bond. Kaladin has been shown to not get along with others at first (mostly due to his own initial judgments) then grow very close to them… take Adolin and Shallan for example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Am I the only one to whom sending Szeth and Kaladin to Shinovar looks like Dalinar getting the less mentally stable people out of Urithiru before the contest? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argenti Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 On 1/6/2024 at 10:34 AM, Underwater_Worldhopper said: I saw the title of this thread, realised Kaladin still doesnt have a romantic interest, and thought this thread was going in a very different direction I SHIP IT Wind and truth does sound like a fanfic name.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 I think they will start by being indifferent towards each other, no hard feelings, no friendliness as well. Just two soldiers on a mission. But sending a Windrunner and a Skybreaker together on a mission is a bad idea. There will be a conflict between them when Szeth will try to cleanse Shin leadership out of unjust leaders and Kaladin will try to stop him because that's morally not right. KoWT readings spoilers: Spoiler I bet Hoid's flute will come into play. Szeth's sister played on flute and Kaladin will probably use it, which will finally develop their relations and it will help Szeth with overcoming his past and traumas. On 1/6/2024 at 10:03 PM, Master Silver said: After all, the new generation of heralds should get along Yes, because nothing gives more hope for the future than sending a heavily depressed person after two suicidal attempts to be tortured for an eternity in literal hell. 2 hours ago, Oltux72 said: Am I the only one to whom sending Szeth and Kaladin to Shinovar looks like Dalinar getting the less mentally stable people out of Urithiru before the contest? No? Dalinar needs Ishar, Ishar is in Shinovar, Szeth is a Shin with a mission to accomplish there, he knows the terrain and Shin culture, he knows people living there. Sending him to Shinovar is an obvious choice. Kaladin is Stormblessed. He almost always wins and recently he's overcome the hardest struggles imaginable. He started to get interested in mental health problems, he is a surgeon and Ishar is mentally in need. Plus he is 4th Ideal. Another obvious choice. Truthfully, at the end of RoW Dalinar thought he was wrong in relieving Kaladin from duty. He thought Kaladin proved him wrong, showed him that he is capable of fighting and leading, that his mental problems were solved. Dalinar didn't choose Kaladin because he thought Kaladin is a liability, he sent Kaladin because Dalinar thought he was wrong about Kaladin. RoW ch 116: Quote “You’ve been busy, sir,” Kaladin said. He glanced down at his uniform. “Maybe I shouldn’t be wearing this.” Dalinar actually blushed. What a remarkable sight. “About that,” he said. “I should have known I couldn’t—and shouldn’t—try to relieve someone like you from—” “Sir,” Kaladin interrupted. He glanced at Syl, who nodded. He turned back to Dalinar. “Sir, you were right. I have a lot of healing to do before I should be in command again.” “Even still?” Dalinar asked, glancing at Kaladin’s forehead—and the missing brands. “After what you have accomplished? After swearing the Fourth Ideal?” “The Ideals don’t fix us, sir,” Kaladin said. “You know that. We have to fix ourselves. Perhaps with a little help.” He saluted. “We were on the correct path with me, sir. I need to take time away from the battle. Maybe so much time that I never return to full command. I have work to do, helping men like me and Dabbid. I’d like your permission to continue.” [...] “Yes, but there is one who can help me. Unfortunately, he’s insane. And so, Kaladin, I do not need you as a soldier right now. I need you as a surgeon. You are of the few who personally understand what it means to have your own mind betray you. Would you be willing to go on a mission to recover this individual and find a way to help him, so he can help me?” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxredux Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Oltux72 said: Am I the only one to whom sending Szeth and Kaladin to Shinovar looks like Dalinar getting the less mentally stable people out of Urithiru before the contest? Not sure if I would phrase it that way, but they are probably the two most capable fighters/champion candidates in the coalition and most likely to intervene during the contest and potentially invalidate some sort of rule which he really doesn't want. Kaladin in particular has a history of interfering with duels and Szeth is less than stable. Now whether or not this is the primary goal, a secondary benefit, or a suspicious coincidence remains to be seen. That said, Dalinar intends to be his own champion and I believe he plans to travel to Shinovar himself to get trained in Bondsmithing with Ishar, so presumably one of them will fly him there and back in time for the contest at Urithiru. Back to the original post, let's think about it. We have a newly minted 4th Ideal Windrunner just barely sworn to accept that there are those he can't protect and a newly minted 4th Ideal Skybreaker on his crusade to cleanse Shinovar. Forget protecting Dalinar, I can't see them not clashing over the finer details in interpreting their 4th Ideals at the start. Sending Kaladin as the only one known fighter to successfully keep the Assassin in White in check specifically in a bodyguarding / protection role is probably going to keep some people in Shinovar at least initially alive (though I'm not sure if most of Kal's options work well with dealing with Nightblood. Hopefully Sig and the others who saw the clash against Ishar pass on how that match went). That said, Kaladin really does have a soft spot for the mentally ill, particularly the ones suffering from PTSD, and he has a strong understanding of what it feels like to be used and discarded by the powerful. He'll probably end up getting on just fine with Szeth if Szeth allows it. Got sniped while I was looking for an appropriate "defeat means friendship" meme. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argenti Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, Duxredux said: newly minted 4th Ideal Skybreaker on his crusade to cleanse Shinovar. Szeth has not made his 4th ideal, he needs to finish his crusade for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Kaladin is going there in part to help with Ishar’s mental illness. I think he’ll end up helping Szeth somewhat. Szeth freaks out a lot. Against Kaladin in their first fight he runs away. Somewhat in their second fight when Kaladin saves Dalinar. In OB he makes Lift go to Dalinar in the Thrill because he can’t handle the voices. In RoW he murders “Taravangian” in a rage. On 1/6/2024 at 3:03 PM, Master Silver said: One thing that is apparent from Szeth's development throughout the series is just how amazing a fighter he is. Arguably, Szeth has more feats when it comes to fighting (like taking out a small army) than Kaladin, but Kaladin by winning duels shows his superior skill. I hope they become besties. After all, the new generation of heralds should get along Yeah, Szeth’s family seems to have been in charge of the Honorblades at one point and Szeth has practiced with them before his exile then he had Jezrien’s blade for at least 6 years. He and Jasnah seem to be the most experienced with their powers of the non-herald POV characters. Now he has Nightblood and Nale told him he’d still teach him Division. Mass destruction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Silver Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Aside from that, Kaladin has always been able to keep his sanity by putting things in us verse them categories. I think his fourth ideal reinforces this. I actually hope they swear their fifth ideals together resolving whatever conflict/tension may arise between them while fulfilling this mission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 8 hours ago, alder24 said: No? Dalinar needs Ishar, Ishar is in Shinovar, Szeth is a Shin with a mission to accomplish there, he knows the terrain and Shin culture, he knows people living there. Sending him to Shinovar is an obvious choice. Kaladin is Stormblessed. He almost always wins and recently he's overcome the hardest struggles imaginable. He started to get interested in mental health problems, he is a surgeon and Ishar is mentally in need. Plus he is 4th Ideal. Another obvious choice. No, he does not need him now. For that to be usable in the contest you have to do the following within 10 days: get to Shinovar wait for Ishar to arrive find him cure him get back from Shinovar have him tell the technique Dalinar to master the technique Sorry, but this is beyond believability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: No, he does not need him now. For that to be usable in the contest you have to do the following within 10 days: get to Shinovar wait for Ishar to arrive find him cure him get back from Shinovar have him tell the technique Dalinar to master the technique Sorry, but this is beyond believability. Oh yeah, I know it's an insane idea but that's what Dalinar wants to do. You can't argue with crazy. RoW ch 115: Quote “Regardless, an end is in sight. But I’m going to need help from someone before this contest arrives. The fight won’t simply be a swordfight— I can’t explain what it will be. I don’t know that I understand yet either, but I’m increasingly confident I need to master what I can of my powers.” “I don’t know if I can help with that, sir,” Kaladin said. “Though we share a Surge, our abilities seem very different.” “Yes, but there is one who can help me. Unfortunately, he’s insane. And so, Kaladin, I do not need you as a soldier right now. I need you as a surgeon. You are of the few who personally understand what it means to have your own mind betray you. Would you be willing to go on a mission to recover this individual and find a way to help him, so he can help me?” “Of course, sir,” Kaladin said. “Who is it?” “The Herald Ishi,” Dalinar said. “Creator of the Oathpact, Herald of Truth, and original binder of the Fused.” Syl whistled softly. “Sir,” Kaladin said, feeling unnerved. “Ten days isn’t enough to help someone with ordinary battle shock. It will take years, if we can even find proper methods. To help a Herald … Well, sir, their problems seem far beyond mine.” “I know, soldier,” Dalinar said. “But I think Ishar’s malady is supernatural in nature, and he gave me clues to help him recover" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 On 1/4/2024 at 8:45 PM, Voidlit Man said: I don't know what is spoiler or not, so I'll play it safe Stormlight 5 Potential spoilers Hide contents We know in the 5th book that Szeth and Kaladin are traveling together for a large part of the book. They haven't really interacted besides when Szeth was tasked with killing Dalinar, and I would bet that they won't get along. Kaladin and Szeth both pride themselves in their flight skills and their job to protect Dalinar, and both have different ideologies and views that are known to have conflicted in the past. Past Skybreakers and Windrunners did not get along, as evidenced by this Truthwatcher I would bet that at some point they will differ on whether to follow the "spirit" or "letter" of the law, and will not agree until at some later point in the book, they agree on something important. They have ample reason to at least conflict with each other, and this is what I bet will happen I'm largely in agreement, but I think there may be more value in speculating what they might bond or find common ground over. Whether they both live or die, I'm expecting them to end up on the same side of the fight at this point, so I assume there will be some alignment and overlap between them which will develop. Like...how do their backstories and tortured pasts allow them to empathize with eachother? How has Szeth's apparently highly formalized and ritualized training with magical super weapons from an early age shaped his personality differently than Kaladin's highly informal and self-led conditioning with only the most basic equipment and how will they work together? What will each of them have to do in order to get the other one to forgive them for the personal hell and impossible anguish which they have, very much on purpose and by choice on several occasions, caused eachother? I expect it to be tragically exciting and for the two of them to end as friends. No idea if they'll live, die fighting, or something in between though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidlit Man Posted January 10 Author Report Share Posted January 10 I like the idea that they will find common ground in protecting innocents, which is something that Kaladin clearly loves, and I would assume that Szeth cares about, considering that he's going back to Shinovar, I assume, partially to help any living family. Szeth was most disgusted in his assassination attempts when someone forced him to kill innocents, like in the assassination of the king of Jah Keved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelsierFortnite Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 On 1/6/2024 at 4:03 PM, Master Silver said: After all, the new generation of heralds should get along Is this confirmed or just speculation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxredux Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 11 minutes ago, KelsierFortnite said: Is this confirmed or just speculation? Speculation as far as I know. They'd have to figure out how to get the Oathpact to even work to seal up the Fused now that the Everstorm is in place. Even Odium can't order them back to Braise. If the Oathpact can't serve the primary function of sealing away a serially reincarnated enemy force then it begs the question of why they would need new Heralds (assuming the old Heralds don't want to just pull a switcheroo and leave the new Heralds holding the very short end of the stick). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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