Aeoryi she/her Posted December 25, 2023 Report Share Posted December 25, 2023 Okay, so I've had this wild thought: If the cognitive realm has spatial dilation (subastral, distances being smaller than in the physical realm), then would it be theoretically possible to have time in the cognitive realm be slower (or faster) than in the physical realm? Of course, this would require pretty massive changes, but I do want to know if it is within the limitations of the cognitive realm as a whole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaver of Lies he/him Posted December 25, 2023 Report Share Posted December 25, 2023 I’d assume so, if you gathered enough investiture together it should dilate. I don’t see a reason that would be different than in the physical realm. Without investiture… maybe? If enough people’s perspectives changed then probably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted December 25, 2023 Report Share Posted December 25, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Aeoryi said: Okay, so I've had this wild thought: If the cognitive realm has spatial dilation (subastral, distances being smaller than in the physical realm), then would it be theoretically possible to have time in the cognitive realm be slower (or faster) than in the physical realm? Of course, this would require pretty massive changes, but I do want to know if it is within the limitations of the cognitive realm as a whole. Just like that? No. Just like in PR, you need a big concentration of mass or investiture in CR or PR to cause a time dilation. Normal distortion of CR compared to PR is caused by thoughts of people and mind concentration in PR - a desolate, unknonwn desert won't have big presence in CR while a huge city will. There is no time dilation because of space distortion in CR based on lack of thoughts. Spoiler Jeremy If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis? Brandon Sanderson No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that. That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) Spoiler Questioner Is all the worlds in the Cosmere on a linear timeline? Brandon Sanderson Yes, with an asterisk. There is time dilation. If you get too close to large amounts of matter or large amounts of Investiture, you will have time dilation. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) Spoiler Stuart Eliason If a planet was orbiting a black hole, would time be distorted in the Cognitive Realm in that area the same way? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Good question. And in fact, if you could get enough Investiture, it will do the same thing. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) SH spoiler WoB: Spoiler Questioner So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets. Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system. Questioner Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense. Questioner That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but... Brandon Sanderson Spoiler Can't delete accidental box on mobile It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah Questioner Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or-- Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't. Questioner So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it... Brandon Sanderson It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that. Questioner That's interesting. Brandon Sanderson You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar. White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016) Edited December 25, 2023 by alder24 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lego Mistborn he/him Posted December 26, 2023 Report Share Posted December 26, 2023 On 12/25/2023 at 5:17 AM, alder24 said: Just like that? No. Just like in PR, you need a big concentration of mass or investiture in CR or PR to cause a time dilation. Normal distortion of CR compared to PR is caused by thoughts of people and mind concentration in PR - a desolate, unknonwn desert won't have big presence in CR while a huge city will. There is no time dilation because of space distortion in CR based on lack of thoughts. Reveal hidden contents Jeremy If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis? Brandon Sanderson No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that. That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) Reveal hidden contents Questioner Is all the worlds in the Cosmere on a linear timeline? Brandon Sanderson Yes, with an asterisk. There is time dilation. If you get too close to large amounts of matter or large amounts of Investiture, you will have time dilation. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) Reveal hidden contents Stuart Eliason If a planet was orbiting a black hole, would time be distorted in the Cognitive Realm in that area the same way? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Good question. And in fact, if you could get enough Investiture, it will do the same thing. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) SH spoiler WoB: Reveal hidden contents Questioner So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets. Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system. Questioner Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense. Questioner That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but... Brandon Sanderson Reveal hidden contents Can't delete accidental box on mobile It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah Questioner Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or-- Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't. Questioner So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it... Brandon Sanderson It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that. Questioner That's interesting. Brandon Sanderson You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar. White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016) Your third WoB says that yes, time dilation will happen. I suspect that in addition to large amounts of investiture, there would also be dilation leaking in from stuff like perpendicularities where all the realms interconnect and, especially when people realize that dilation is going on, simply from that knowledge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted December 26, 2023 Report Share Posted December 26, 2023 3 hours ago, Lego Mistborn said: Your third WoB says that yes, time dilation will happen. I suspect that in addition to large amounts of investiture, there would also be dilation leaking in from stuff like perpendicularities where all the realms interconnect and, especially when people realize that dilation is going on, simply from that knowledge. Yes, as I said, you need a large concentration of mass or investiture in the Physical Realm or Cognitive Realm for time dilation to happen in both realms. A perpendicularity isn't large enough, it won't cause any significant time dilation. Perception doesn't cause time dilation. Spoiler Questioner Does the dead body of a Shard pull at time and space, thus causing time to pass slower in that place of the cosmere, almost like a black hole? Brandon Sanderson It could go either way in the Cosmere, depending. But the answer is yes. A large amount, like a deific amount of Investiture will... any amount of Investiture will cause a bit of time dilation, but the amount you're getting from even a Shardpool is not enough to be noticeable. I mean, it is, you can notice it even on our planet if you take a jet that goes fast enough, so it is noticeable but not relevantly noticeable. We're talking about a slippage of a day or so in a year even off of a Shardpool (don't canonize me on that one, I don't have the actual numbers). But that's what we're talking about. There are are chunks of Investiture of deific nature that can cause amounts of time dilation that would be virtually impossible in our universe, without you becoming one with a black hole. There's a story I want to tell, and I don't know if I'll ever get around to telling it, about an entire society that rises and falls in several seconds of time dilation to everyone else. I want to be able to tell stories like that, and you couldn't do that in our universe, but that's part of the reason we have the Cosmere! YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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