Night Of Sorrows

[theSurgeOfPhysics]

Quote

"The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows." TWoK Ch. 75

The Night of Sorrows seems tied to Death Rattles that mention darkness. Perhaps the sun approaching the horizon is not a reference to a Shadesmar sun, as Honor wouldn't call that entity a sun but rather what it truly is (SR?). Instead, the sun could be stuck permanently on the horizon, like a twilight. This could happen if Odium wins and uses his power to tidally lock the planet. The singers can use rhythms to grow food, but the humans would struggle. 

 

Thoughts?

[Treamayne]

11 minutes ago, theSurgeOfPhysics said:

The Night of Sorrows seems tied to Death Rattles that mention darkness. Perhaps the sun approaching the horizon is not a reference to a Shadesmar sun, as Honor wouldn't call that entity a sun but rather what it truly is (SR?). Instead, the sun could be stuck permanently on the horizon, like a twilight. This could happen if Odium wins and uses his power to tidally lock the planet. The singers can use rhythms to grow food, but the humans would struggle. 

Here are the Night of Sorrows references:

Spoiler

TWoK Ch 5:

Quote

“I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm.”

—Collected on the 1st of Nanes, 1172, 15 seconds pre-death. Subject was a darkeyed youth of unknown origin.

TWoK Ch 18:

Quote

“Yes, Brightlord.”

She didn’t question. Teshav was deeply loyal to him, as were most of his officers. They didn’t question why it was so important to him that the ten princedoms regard themselves as one nation. Perhaps they assumed it was because of Gavilar. Indeed, his brother’s dream of a united Alethkar was part of it. There was something else, though.

The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows.

He suppressed a shiver. The visions certainly didn’t make it sound like he had a great deal of time to prepare.

TWoK Ch 52:

Quote

“Is this the Day of Recreance?” Dalinar asked.

“These events will go down in history,” the Radiant said. “They will be infamous. You will have many names for what happened here.”

“But why?” Dalinar asked. “Please. Why did they abandon their duty?”

The figure seemed to study him. “I have said I that cannot be of much help to you. The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm.”

“Then answer my questions!” Dalinar said.

“Read the book. Unite them.”

TWoK Ch 61:

Quote

“My daughter seeks something,” Navani said. “She frightens me sometimes. She’s so intense. I honestly believe she’s the most intelligent person I’ve ever known. And the things she searches for… Dalinar, she believes that something very dangerous is near.”

The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows….

“I need you,” Navani said. 

TWoK Ch 75:

Quote

In fact, the only thing he remembered distinctly was—

“You must unite them,” a strong voice boomed.

—was the voice. Speaking to him from all around, causing the smoke figures to fuzz and distort.

“Why did you lie to me?” Dalinar demanded of the open darkness. “I did what you said, and I was betrayed!”

“Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows.”

“I need answers!” Dalinar said. “I don’t trust you any longer. If you want me to listen to you, you’ll need to—”

The vision changed. He spun about, finding that he was still on an open plain of rock, but the normal sun was in the sky. The stone field looked like an ordinary one on Roshar.

 

So, the Chapter 18 and 61 references seem to be Dalinar remembering the vision we see for the first time in Ch 75. That makes three distinct references (as shown in he Coppermind link above):

Spoiler

“The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm. ”

—Honor, in a vision of the Recreance

“Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows. You must prepare. ”

—Honor, in the first and repeated vision

“I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm. ”

—A Death Rattle, 1172

Two make it seem like "Nigth of Sorrows" might just be another name for the events of the WoR climax, and the summoning of the Everstorm (which could feasibly be the Listener Term for that night, since it marked the death of 90% of their remaining population). One reference uses "and" which may imply that it is something different-but-connected. The fact that two of the references have nothing to do with Shadesmar imply that the Sun in the third reference is not important, except as a metaphor for "twilight" and entering a "dark time."

I very much doubt that it would have anything to do with a literal twilight or tidally locked planet (since Brandon aslready has White Sand to explore the ramifications of tidally locked planets and how that effects culture, ecology and geology). It seems much more like a purple prose name for a single event than a description of a continuing "period" of time.

Since all three terms are always seen together, my nerpretation (pening more evidence) is:

• The Everstorm is summoned on the Night of Sorrows, ushering in the True Desolation

[alder24]

1 hour ago, theSurgeOfPhysics said:

The Night of Sorrows seems tied to Death Rattles that mention darkness. Perhaps the sun approaching the horizon is not a reference to a Shadesmar sun, as Honor wouldn't call that entity a sun but rather what it truly is (SR?). Instead, the sun could be stuck permanently on the horizon, like a twilight. This could happen if Odium wins and uses his power to tidally lock the planet. The singers can use rhythms to grow food, but the humans would struggle. 

 

Thoughts?

Those three events are definitely separate. If Odium wins then why would he want to practically destroy Roshar by tidally locking it? He wants to use it as his training camp, not burn it away in the sun. 

I personally think that the Night of Sorrow is about the result of the contest of Champions. I believe that Stormfather will be killed and will become a deadeye, Highstorms will stop, endless Weeping and rain will replace them and Stormlight will be gone - thus the Night of Sorrows as there will be no more Stormlight (not literal sunlight). There are so many Death Rattles hinting at that. The Evenstorm was the start of the True Desolation and the Night of Sorrows will be its end.

[Letryx13]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:12 PM, Treamayne said:

Here are the Night of Sorrows references:

  Reveal hidden contents

TWoK Ch 5:

TWoK Ch 18:

TWoK Ch 52:

TWoK Ch 61:

TWoK Ch 75:

 

So, the Chapter 18 and 61 references seem to be Dalinar remembering the vision we see for the first time in Ch 75. That makes three distinct references (as shown in he Coppermind link above):

  Reveal hidden contents

“The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm. ”

—Honor, in a vision of the Recreance

“Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows. You must prepare. ”

—Honor, in the first and repeated vision

“I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm. ”

—A Death Rattle, 1172

Two make it seem like "Nigth of Sorrows" might just be another name for the events of the WoR climax, and the summoning of the Everstorm (which could feasibly be the Listener Term for that night, since it marked the death of 90% of their remaining population). One reference uses "and" which may imply that it is something different-but-connected. The fact that two of the references have nothing to do with Shadesmar imply that the Sun in the third reference is not important, except as a metaphor for "twilight" and entering a "dark time."

I very much doubt that it would have anything to do with a literal twilight or tidally locked planet (since Brandon aslready has White Sand to explore the ramifications of tidally locked planets and how that effects culture, ecology and geology). It seems much more like a purple prose name for a single event than a description of a continuing "period" of time.

Since all three terms are always seen together, my nerpretation (pening more evidence) is:

• The Everstorm is summoned on the Night of Sorrows, ushering in the True Desolation

That was my interpretation too.  The Night of Sorrows seemed like when the Everstorm arrived, heralding the True Desolation.

[ScavellTane]

The True Desolation hasn't started yet.