Urithiru

[DocHoliday]

I think that the same 10 types of surgebinding have always existed and always been powered by bonding with the same 10 types of spren, it makes it far too complicated otherwise, there is no (currently known) mechanic in the magic system that would be able to change the nature of the magic system itself.

So I think all he is saying is that not all the qualities that you can have to gain surgebinding necessarily require wisdom, or even common sense as prerequisites, I know some pretty stupid people who are a brave and obedient, and some even worse who could be considered to be loving and healing, and don't even get me started on order 10, pious and guiding, that covers every religious nut job the world over (note, I am a christian, not all religious people are crazy). Without some kind of framework of honour and training to ensure that the surgebinders were intelligent well rounded individuals, such as the orders of the Knights Radiants there was no way to ensure that surgebinders would be 'good' people.

So what I think Nohadon was saying was damnation I wish all the spren would pick people as determined to help their communities as the people that the honourspren choose.

 throwing it out there, but one of the interludes actually does involve the matter of changing the characteristics of flame spren. So it's certainly possible to alter the nature of a Nahel bond.

 

On a separate note Windrunner is into something about the idea of KR representing different facets of Honor.

[Zizoz]

I have been thinking for a while, but is it possible that Urithiru is in the horneater peaks? Those mountains were on the west boarder of Alethela. It would be high up, (close to Honor). But one of the things that makes me think this the most is Rock.

Rock is more knowledgeable about surgebinding and spren than he lets on. He can see Syl, an honorspren, without her having to make it so. He also knows about Kaladin's powers.

In chapter 73, the last camp-fire bridge four have, Rock says Kaladin's abilities are "of the holetental. For him only." When Teft questions this, Rock replies "You don't know for certain I don't know for certain". My guess is that the horneaters are descendants of those who lived in Urithiru and worked with the Radiants. They could see spren, and so were valuable servants.

What do you guys think?

 

Indeed: Rock is tall and has red hair; logically, he must be descended from the servants of ancient magic users.

 

I wonder if the placement of Valath, the location of the Holy Enclave (perhaps the center of Vorinism?), next to the Peaks is related.

[Ren]

Hello, I have not followed BS's interview closely, but here's my theories, about Urithiru.

1. Let's start with Szeth? What's the most sacred thing to Shin folk? Stone. They don't step on stone, Szeth was feeling very uncomfortable during his assassionations, walking on stone and making remarks how it was blasphemic.
2. Shin people guard their land very well, no outsider is allowed to step deep into their territory, and are only allowed to trade, right? Correct me, if I'm wrong here.
3. So that makes me believe that they guard something very special and that's Urithiru in my opinion. Stone is sacred, remember?

I believe Szeth stepped on Urithiru or, traveled somehow there. He's a windrunner, as far as we know he can't teleport, but he MAY be able to fly (BS might be keeping this as a secret for now). I don't think it's that easy to enter Urithiru, but I think Szeth might have found a way.

When I think about it though, BS won't make stuff like that easily predictable.
 

[Aether]

This seems like a bit of a stretch. We aren't even sure if Urithiru is corporal or not, so you have no reason to assume it is made of stone. Stormlight is also sacred, according to Szeth. By your logic, couldn't Urithiru also be made out of Stormlight, and that Szeth could expelled for having used some of it up?

[Clueless]

This is my first post so if i am saying something stupid then by all means tell me

 

Is it not possible that urithiru is in the center of the shattered plains? When Kaladin is part of the storm it mentions the shattered plains and if i am not mistaken (i don't have the book to hand at this moment, so if someone could supply a quote it would be much appreciated ) it mentions something going on in the middle of the plain, it would also be closest to the origin as (assuming no land mass lies at the origin) as that is the first place hit by the highstorms?

[hoser]

Two first posts! Welcome Ren and Clueless!  Upvotes all around!

Hello, I have not followed BS's interview closely, but here's my theories, about Urithiru.

1. Let's start with Szeth? What's the most sacred thing to Shin folk? Stone. They don't step on stone, Szeth was feeling very uncomfortable during his assassionations, walking on stone and making remarks how it was blasphemic.
2. Shin people guard their land very well, no outsider is allowed to step deep into their territory, and are only allowed to trade, right? Correct me, if I'm wrong here.
3. So that makes me believe that they guard something very special and that's Urithiru in my opinion. Stone is sacred, remember?

I believe Szeth stepped on Urithiru or, traveled somehow there. He's a windrunner, as far as we know he can't teleport, but he MAY be able to fly (BS might be keeping this as a secret for now). I don't think it's that easy to enter Urithiru, but I think Szeth might have found a way.

When I think about it though, BS won't make stuff like that easily predictable.

The only clue that I am aware of relating to the cause of Szeth's punishment is in the prologue and talks about voidbringers existence.  I don't see a direct correlation between setting foot on Urithiru and the voidbringers, so I am inclined to doubt that he is being punished for merely stepping in a taboo place.  The punishment seems extreme also.  We also don't know why he would do that, given the consequences you outline.  I do think reconciling the Voidbringers quote would make your theory stronger. 

 

Mentally, I have trouble reconciling the Radiants, who are all about stormlight and spren, establishing Urithiru in a place that has neither.  But that might just be my lack of imagination speaking.  We do have a quote in one of the chapter headings that Urithiru is to the west of Alethela, which certainly fits Shinovar. 

 

This is my first post so if i am saying something stupid then by all means tell me

 

Is it not possible that urithiru is in the center of the shattered plains? When Kaladin is part of the storm it mentions the shattered plains and if i am not mistaken (i don't have the book to hand at this moment, so if someone could supply a quote it would be much appreciated ) it mentions something going on in the middle of the plain, it would also be closest to the origin as (assuming no land mass lies at the origin) as that is the first place hit by the highstorms?

I generally like theories that can explain multiple mysteries in a single leap of intuition.  The quote about Urithiru being to the west of Alethela is a bit of a problem for this theory, but people have found ways around it, proposing Urithiru being teleported, a floating city that moved or discounting the quote.  On a meta level my biggest problem with this theory is that there is so much buildup around Urithiru that it seems like there should be more to it than a pile of rubble.

[Aether]

I find it more likely that the Shattered Plains was destroyed by something else. Especially considering the very few quotes we have about Urithiru. Someone around here suggested that Honour's Shardpool might have been located in Old Natanatan, and that it was the Shattering of his shard that made the plains.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Aether

[Haxors]

Maybe there are no spren in Shinovar because Urithiru IS there and because the KR abandoned the "cause"? So it's become a like a negative place for the Honorspren? Just like Syl doesn't like the Shardblades? Please tell me if I am totally of the mark here? Also my very 1st post on the 17th shard, so please don't be to harsh?

Edited December 2, 2013 by Haxors

[Aether]

Welcome to the 17th shard!

 

And no, I don't think you're completely off mark. At least not based on the information we currently have. And you've caught on to the basic idea anyway. Something is different about Shinovar, but we're only really able to guess what it might be at this point.

[ddleg]

My thought is that Urithiru is deeper in the shattered plains.   if you don't mind spoilers i would say listen to the parshendi interlude or read the transcript from the words of radiance.

 

only my guess

[Aether]

I am familiar with those. However, they do not at any point refer to the ruins as Urithiru and could just as easily be leftovers of an old Natanatan city

[hoser]

Welcome!  Have an upvote for poking your head above the rim of the foxhole.

Maybe there are no spren in Shinovar because Urithiru IS there and because the KR abandoned the "cause"? So it's become a like a negative place for the Honorspren? Just like Syl doesn't like the Shardblades? Please tell me if I am totally of the mark here? Also my very 1st post on the 17th shard, so please don't be to harsh?

Certainly seems possible.  The main difference that I am aware of about Shinovar is that it is said to be sheltered from the highstorms.  I've been assuming that spren need stormlight (or that they are stormlight, sort of), but, as I have amply demonstrated, my ignorance is pronounced. Would the observation that there are generally no spren in Shinovar, rather than just a section of Shinovar, be a problem for this theory? Syl does hate Dalinar's shardblade, but she seems to remember the Radiants positively and wants Kaladin to develop that way. 

[Levian]

Just from the fact that you can't walk there, and that it has been placed westward makes me think it's on an Island, or perhaps Shinovar. They seem to be surrounded by mountains and I'm not sure if it is possible to get there by foot, or if they have to take a ship around or not.

[Aether]

A common theory is that it is placed high up on a mountain somewhere that is only reachable through Oathgates or surgebinding. But an island might work just as well.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Aether

[Haxors]

Levian

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:12 PM

Just from the fact that you can't walk there, and that it has been placed westward makes me think it's on an Island, or perhaps Shinovar. They seem to be surrounded by mountains and I'm not sure if it is possible to get there by foot, or if they have to take a ship around or not.

Yet Nohadon did walk there? So I'm having a hard time seeing Urithiru being on an island

Edited December 4, 2013 by Haxors

[Ren]

What do you think about Aimia?

[Haxors]

Aimia would be perfect, except for the fact that Nohadon "WALKED" there. i have a hard time seeing seeing Urithiru on an islandfor that fact alone

[Ren]

Aimia would be perfect, except for the fact that Nohadon "WALKED" there. i have a hard time seeing seeing Urithiru on an islandfor that fact alone

I don't think we should focus too much on this term, but that's just my opinion.

[Shardlet]

As was pointed out in the book, the story could well be allegorical.

[Kurkistan]

What do you think about Aimia?

Sorry, hit downvote on my phone by accident.

Could I please get an offset to set him back to neutral?

EDIT: Thanks.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Ookla the Inveterate

[christophalies]

Jasnah mentions that the spren built cities. I would assume she meant in shadesmar, but just somethin to think about when considering who built urithiru and what that may have to do with where it is. Not sure I like the idea of it being in shadesmar.

Edited January 11, 2014 by christophalies

[Dros]

Jasnah mentions that the spren built cities. I would assume she meant in shadesmar, but just somethin to think about when considering who built urithiru and what that may have to do with where it is. Not sure I like the idea of it being in shadesmar.

 

It seems there is a corresponding structure in the physical realm for everything in the Cognitive, though. Could you build a city as we envision it in the Cognitive Realm and not see that construction manifest in the Physical?

[Isomere]

Perhaps the little spheres in Shadesmar only matter in terms of content, not relative position. You could build a city out of them by changing relative position, but you don't actually change the traits and attributes of the individual spheres.

[Kurkistan]

Perhaps the little spheres in Shadesmar only matter in terms of content, not relative position. You could build a city out of them by changing relative position, but you don't actually change the traits and attributes of the individual spheres.

 

I think that likely, especially given Wyndle's gardening habits.

[duladen]

WILD THEORY!

Warning: I did not use spoiler tags as this thread has already mentioned things revealed in the WoR Prologue-Ch.2.

Perhaps the spren cities correspond to the cities of the Silver Epoch (Kholinar, Karbranth, etc.) And there is an 11th city - Urithiru! Located in the Shadesmar equivalent of the Shattered Plains. When the spren shunned humans due to this unspecified betrayal - they destroyed Urithiru in Shadesmar, causing the shattering of the site in the Physical Realm.