Urithiru

[Dahak]

This is a good idea, but it raises the question of why you can't just build more gates? It doesn't make sense to just link from one place to another. What if Radiants garrisoned one place had to get to another? Going to Urithiru and then somewhere else would be a waste of time in an emergency

Because you get most efficient use of any new gates you build if they are Urithru to somewhere that isn't already connected. Because that adds an extra destination and that way no gate end is more than two jumps from any other.

At best all another geometry saves you is the time travelling from one Urithru Gate to another on a trip between a single pair of gates. [i.e. not much, since barring some limit we haven't seen yet there is no reason not to have the urithru ends close to each other] Whereas that gate could instead be built Urithru to somewhere there isn't a gate and improve coverage.

Gates almost certainly are reasonably expensive. Adding a Urithru to somewhere link is the most efficient thing you can do when building another one, baring network saturation.

Also there is no point in garrisoning the far end of gates rather than patrolling them. Off duty personnel can gate back to Urithru, where they already have quarters, messes etc at the end of their shift, when their relief gates in from Urithru. And you'd hold your ready reserve at Urithru to reinforce from there.

[Dahak]

Its not like every airport in the word only has one terminal and they all send you to the same place to be rerouted to a different destination.

It isn't like Aircraft instantly teleport from location to location. However over scales in which that is close to true you do see feeder airports flying only to hubs.

Incidently It's cheaper and easier to run one large office in a single location than lots of small ones spread out, due to staff members not being divisible into fractions. Tariff gathering is easier to control and police if everyone is channelled through a single node.

Actually, I just thought of something. The radiants were inspired by Nohadon's book. They didn't exist at the time of Dalinar's visit w/Nohadon. Urithiru is the birthplace of the Radiants. The book is about a journey to Urithiru. How does that work? The book must predate the radiants, and Urithiru apparently predates the book.

Assuming a lack of allegory. Which we can't necessarily assume.

1] Surgebinders predate the Knights Radiant. Therefore urithru can be built before their are Knights Radiants, possibly being subsequently acredited to the Knights Radiant since the surgebinders who built it became the first Knights Radiant.

or

2] Inspire does not necessity mean inspire to create, it could mean inspire to greatness or inspire to join. The Knights Radiant could form first,build Urithru, Nonadon could write way of Kings and then the Knights Radiant could go "Brilliant, this is a perfect distillation of what it means to be Knights Radiant" and use it as their guiding text for new members there after.

[name_here]

The idea that it costs money to make Oathgates is speculation, as you've admitted. I see you're point of view but I still think that it makes more sense to build Oathgates to every city. Its not like every airport in the word only has one terminal and they all send you to the same place to be rerouted to a different destination. In addition to that we don't know that Oathgates are linked pairs, they might be able to connect to any Oathgate on Roshar. Also since the Radiants are charging tariffs to use the gates they could build a few, charge tolls/tariffs and then have plenty of money to build more. Why do you think sending everyone to Urithiru would simplify toll collection and monitering traffic? People could buy one direct ticket to their destination instead of buying one to Urithiru and then buying another ticket in Urithiru to their final destination. One toll is easier to collect and process then two, would you agree? If you were monitoring traffic the work wouldn't be any different at all, in my opinion. You can just find out where people are going from their departure Oathgate if they can go direct. If they're in Urithiru the process works the same way. Do you agree with me about tolls and monitoring? If not please reply, I love to hear from others points of view.

The Oathgates must consume some amount of Stormlight, probably either based on mass, based on discrete objects, or simply require a constant level that drains away over time, which is functionally the same as costing money. The principles of their operation is unknown, but presumably they also require gemstones to construct. And the Radiants do have things to spend money on besides expanding the network.

The main reason to suspect they're linked pairs is twofold: One, the only known fabrials that allow any interaction over a distance come in pairs, and the only known nonfabrial objects with magical power are the Shards, and they are pretty much indestructable. So if they're fabrials they are probably paired, and if they're like the Shards they would probably remain active. Second, Urithiru spent at least some portion of history inaccessable by land, so if the Oathgates were capable of linking to any other gate there would be no reason whatsoever to ship goods through Urithiru. So it must have been either legally mandated or a practical consequence of the nature of the network. I generally work from the perspective that the Radiants were basically decent people who at least believed whatever they did was the best way to help people, so if the Oathgates are set up to require people to move through Urithiru there's probably some decent technical, administrative, or strategic reason for them to do so.

There could simply be a tariff office in Urithiru that handled the entire price of the journey at once, and then they wouldn't need to bother with transferring tolls and keeping/updating multiple sets of records.

[Zas678]

Just a quick note here, so people remember. You can try to extrapolate all you want, just remember that this is speculation. It's speculation that makes sense to me, but it is still speculation.

The fact that there are Oathgates (or whatever they're called- that's a good enough name until we get a canon one) is pure speculation that does make sense with the "regular method" that Nohaden talks about.

*sigh* Never mind. I'm wrong.

Chapter 39:

"Within a heartbeat, Alezarv was there, crossing a distance that would have taken more than four months to travel by foot." -Another folktale, this one recorded in Among the Darkeyed, by Calinam. Page 102. Stories of instantaneous travel and the Oathgates pervade these tales.

As to this....

Actually, I just thought of something. The radiants were inspired by Nohadon's book. They didn't exist at the time of Dalinar's visit w/Nohadon. Urithiru is the birthplace of the Radiants. The book is about a journey to Urithiru. How does that work? The book must predate the radiants, and Urithiru apparently predates the book.

Remember this quote?

“Radiant / of birthplace / the announcer comes / to come announce / the birthplace of Radiants.”<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">

-Though I am not overly fond of the ketek poetic form as a means of conveying information, the one by Allahn is often quoted in reference to Urithiru. I believe some mistook the home of the Radiants for their birthplace.

The fact that the Knight Radiants lived in Uritihiru during Dalinar's vision doesn't mean that they always did. Just because they trained there doesn't mean that they built the city.

Indeed,

They lived high atop a place that no man could reach, but all could visit. The tower city itself, crafted by the hands of no man.

This seems to reference Urithiru. The fact that it wasn't crafted by man could mean that it was made by early Soulcasters, as has been already mentioned, or it could mean that perhaps the Almighty built it, as Shallan's ardent (Kabsal) seems to think is the case with many of the other original cities.

[fiveAM]

I remember reading somewhere that the Terxim quote about the tariffs needs to be taken as the perspective of someone paying fees. Sure, it could have been crazy hikes, but if you think about how much people complain with gas goes up by 5-10 cents.. I'm not saying it's fair to have to be raising taxes, etc. but taxes are always too high, and people are always complaining about it. Even if we were paying 1% tax, people would be saying, This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules. 1%? so much! I worked for this! This should all be mine.

Personally, I like the idea of Urithiru being either where the Nightwatcher is in The Valley, or in the mountains near it. It's pretty close to the middle of the continent, which would mean lots of trade and traffic would go through there. Also, right now, people avoid the Nightwatcher and even the ones who do go, don't speak of it, and if they have to, they only say the minimum and talk are ashamed (Dalinar comes to mind). It is a "lost city" that many people think of as only myth, so many people may no recognize it. If the Nightwatcher is some sort of spren, it could be related to the KR somehow, and maybe it's at the entrance to the city or something?

Sure there're problems, like: what about "the place closest to Honor?", and it couldn't be built in Alethela, is it b/c Alethela was the problem or the city needed specific requirements?. Thinking about how Nohadon probably didn't walk very fast, the purpose wasn't to get to the destination, but the journey involved, "Journey before destination". It seems unreasonable to walk from Alethela to Shinovar in weeks (IF Abamabar IS Kholin City).

Just wanted to mention the idea since no one else has.

Also, I think I remember seeing a quote from Brandon talking about floating cities in an interview, can't remember if he was saying he wouldn't do one or wants to do one... Anyone know where it is?

[nikomis]

I keep wondering if it "couldn't be in Alethela" because that's in a specific country. Perhaps they needed to be somewhere unclaimed, or neutral?

[Vortaan]

What if the reason Urithuru couldn't be constructed in Alethela is because the Oathgates require more consistent amounts of stormlight to function? Imagine this example: Oathgates are charged by stormlight, but require.. every three or so days. To this end you probably need to closer to the source of the storms so that you get hit by more of them. Urithuru is constructed to take advantage of this fact, no matter how inhospitable the terrain since supplies can always be brought in by Oathgate. The reason you couldn't construct city-to-city Oathgates is because they wouldn't get enough stormlight to remain functioning, or could possibly grow dangerous... it's speculation, but it does fit. Where it could be that Nohadon could walk that fits my criteria? Not sure. However, isn't Shinovar unaffected by highstorms? Maybe it's because Urithuru... absorbs them? Deflects them? Something along those lines.

[hoser]

I keep wondering if it "couldn't be in Alethela" because that's in a specific country. Perhaps they needed to be somewhere unclaimed, or neutral?

This seems like a strong possibility to me. Supposedly there were ten "Silver Kingdoms" and there was a place where there were thrones for all the kings. The kings might not have wanted to be in the sovereign territory of another or within reach of another's military.

Another possibility is that the inaccessibility was the attraction. In this case the mountains in Alethkar were not inaccessible enough. They look impressive in the map of Roshar. In the map of Alethkar, not so much.

[hoser]

...

1] Surgebinders predate the Knights Radiant. Therefore urithru can be built before their are Knights Radiants, possibly being subsequently acredited to the Knights Radiant since the surgebinders who built it became the first Knights Radiant.

or

2] Inspire does not necessity mean inspire to create, it could mean inspire to greatness or inspire to join. The Knights Radiant could form first,build Urithru, Nonadon could write way of Kings and then the Knights Radiant could go "Brilliant, this is a perfect distillation of what it means to be Knights Radiant" and use it as their guiding text for new members there after.

Yes, excellent possibilities. The quotes about Urithiru do seem to indicate a human decision about the placement. Teft suggested (IIRC) that the radiants derived their ideals from the book, which contributes to my chicken-and-egg confusion. Teft's sources could easily be wrong though. Nohadon could have gotten the ideals from the radiants and had them written.

[Cuaiir]

However, isn't Shinovar unaffected by highstorms? Maybe it's because Urithuru... absorbs them? Deflects them? Something along those lines.

You may be on to something here. There are huge mountains just to the east of Shinovar, which could easily hold a city that's inaccessible by foot. Modern Rosharian history doesn't speak of Stormlight or the highstorms ever reaching Shinovar - perhaps because of the remnants of Urithiru in the mountains?

[Windrunner]

This confused me too. After I re-read TWoK I think I got it figured. Before Nohadon people bound with all sorts of spren apparently, not just Honorspren. (which I think is the name of the group of Radiant spren, not just Syl's type which I think is probably a protectionspren or something like that) Nahodon realized that people needed beliefs to and oaths to follow, some rules. So he wrote The Way of Kings and I think the Radiants formed and somehow confined the magic, so only bonds with Honorspren could be formed.

[name_here]

Alethkar was apparently the most militarized of the Silver Kingdoms and provided a plurality of the Knights, so they might just have wanted to avoid giving them too much influence by sticking HQ in the main recruiting area.

[ReaderAt2046]

The Oathgates must consume some amount of Stormlight, probably either based on mass, based on discrete objects, or simply require a constant level that drains away over time, which is functionally the same as costing money. The principles of their operation is unknown, but presumably they also require gemstones to construct. And the Radiants do have things to spend money on besides expanding the network.

The main reason to suspect they're linked pairs is twofold: One, the only known fabrials that allow any interaction over a distance come in pairs, and the only known nonfabrial objects with magical power are the Shards, and they are pretty much indestructable. So if they're fabrials they are probably paired, and if they're like the Shards they would probably remain active. Second, Urithiru spent at least some portion of history inaccessable by land, so if the Oathgates were capable of linking to any other gate there would be no reason whatsoever to ship goods through Urithiru. So it must have been either legally mandated or a practical consequence of the nature of the network. I generally work from the perspective that the Radiants were basically decent people who at least believed whatever they did was the best way to help people, so if the Oathgates are set up to require people to move through Urithiru there's probably some decent technical, administrative, or strategic reason for them to do so.

There could simply be a tariff office in Urithiru that handled the entire price of the journey at once, and then they wouldn't need to bother with transferring tolls and keeping/updating multiple sets of records.

What if the Oathgates don't like to Urithiru, but to something in urithiru?

That is, imagine there's some huge, immensely complex fabrial that powers the gateways. The exit end of an Oathgate can be anywhere, but the entrance end has to be at the Tower of Gates (random name i just made up).

The idea being that all the power for the gate came from one end. Thus, a gate can only be opened connecting the Tower to somewhere else, and they didn't build another Tower because it was way too much expense and trouble for very little gain.

[Vortaan]

What if the Oathgates don't like to Urithiru, but to something in urithiru?

That is, imagine there's some huge, immensely complex fabrial that powers the gateways. The exit end of an Oathgate can be anywhere, but the entrance end has to be at the Tower of Gates (random name i just made up).

The idea being that all the power for the gate came from one end. Thus, a gate can only be opened connecting the Tower to somewhere else, and they didn't build another Tower because it was way too much expense and trouble for very little gain.

So you're saying there's actually one fabrial, the gatemaker, and the Oathgates are something it makes? Kind of like a super portal gun. I like it. The question would be then, why would they need to teleport, as some Radiants do? All Radiants could be deployed anywhere, depending on the limitations. In fact, but using multiple gates you could probably skip Urithiru for more than a few seconds.

[Guest Jacob Santos]

So you're saying there's actually one fabrial, the gatemaker, and the Oathgates are something it makes? Kind of like a super portal gun. I like it. The question would be then, why would they need to teleport, as some Radiants do? All Radiants could be deployed anywhere, depending on the limitations. In fact, but using multiple gates you could probably skip Urithiru for more than a few seconds.

Not all Radiants could teleport. Even Windrunners who can travel quickly can not teleport.

I think the discussion is going around in circles. Whether there were multiple gates deployed to a "hub" or multiple gates in every city traveling to every other city is impossible to find for sure. Unless someone is going to ask Brandon and it might well be ROFL (? RAFL?).

I think it is enough that Oathgates existed and went to a given location.

Sorry, I couldn't help stating the obvious. I wasn't going to jump in as I'm enjoying the discussion immensely.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Jacob Santos

[Windrunner]

The number 10 seems to be a recurring theme in this world. Are the "ten fools" the antithesis of the ten orders of the knights radiant?

First Question: Yes, ten is a number of mythological import in the world. The Ten Fools are, essentially, the opposites of the Ten Heralds--who each represented an ideal. (Those ideals were later adopted by the orders of Knights Radiant, so yes, there is a connection--but there's a step between them.)

I just realized this quote mentions the Ideals. I imagine Nohadon saw the Ideals the Heralds represented and wrote The Way of Kings, which allowed people to discover which Oaths would make them Knights Radiant. The only thing I don't understand is why people can't bond with spren other then honorspren now, while they apparently could in the past.

[Elwynn]

The only thing I don't understand is why people can't bond with spren other then honorspren now, while they apparently could in the past.

This. Where did you get this? BS quote? (Or did I totally miss a theory post of yours?)

Because I don't think Jasnah has an honorspren. Nor Shallan. Elhokar probably isn't seeing honorspren. Dalinar doesn't seem to have a spren, though his situation is quite different. Just wondering how you're seeing that.

[Windrunner]

This. Where did you get this? BS quote? (Or did I totally miss a theory post of yours?)

Because I don't think Jasnah has an honorspren. Nor Shallan. Elhokar probably isn't seeing honorspren. Dalinar doesn't seem to have a spren, though his situation is quite different. Just wondering how you're seeing that.

Eh, it's a bit of me reading between the lines and some speculation. I'll start with the speculation. We know that the Shard responsible for Surgebinding is Honor, and that bonds with spren are what give people Surgebinding abilities. Syl says that she is an Honorspren, which to me seems a bit unbalenced. The Windrunners get a spren that represents the whole of Honor's intent and the other Surgebinders get lesser spren? It seems odd to me. Shallan's spren is almost certainly a truthspren. (that may not be the actual name) To me truth seems an honorable thing. It made me think that all the spren of the Knights Radiant represent some facet of Honor. These are presumably linked with the attributes listed in the Ars Arcanum. The whole collective group of spren that bond with the Knights Radiant would be referred to as the honorspren. This all may not be true, but without it the second part of my statement makes no sense.

In Dalinar's vision, Nohadon mentions that a man named Alakavish was a Surgebinder, who's Nahel bond gave him no more wisdom then any ordinary man. Then Nohadon says, Alas, not all spren are as discerning as Honorspren. (I'm paraphrasing here) If my speculation is correct then this implies that other spren could once have been bonded with. So somehow they constrained the magic system, so only certain types of spren could be bound. (This is all before the Way of Kings was written thus, pre-Radiant as well) I could be totally nuts about all this but I really think only one group of Radiants having Honorspren seems weird. What do you think?

[dj26792]

I think that the same 10 types of surgebinding have always existed and always been powered by bonding with the same 10 types of spren, it makes it far too complicated otherwise, there is no (currently known) mechanic in the magic system that would be able to change the nature of the magic system itself.

So I think all he is saying is that not all the qualities that you can have to gain surgebinding necessarily require wisdom, or even common sense as prerequisites, I know some pretty stupid people who are a brave and obedient, and some even worse who could be considered to be loving and healing, and don't even get me started on order 10, pious and guiding, that covers every religious nut job the world over (note, I am a christian, not all religious people are crazy). Without some kind of framework of honour and training to ensure that the surgebinders were intelligent well rounded individuals, such as the orders of the Knights Radiants there was no way to ensure that surgebinders would be 'good' people.

So what I think Nohadon was saying was damnation I wish all the spren would pick people as determined to help their communities as the people that the honourspren choose.

[Windrunner]

I think that the same 10 types of surgebinding have always existed and always been powered by bonding with the same 10 types of spren, it makes it far too complicated otherwise, there is no (currently known) mechanic in the magic system that would be able to change the nature of the magic system itself.

So I think all he is saying is that not all the qualities that you can have to gain surgebinding necessarily require wisdom, or even common sense as prerequisites, I know some pretty stupid people who are a brave and obedient, and some even worse who could be considered to be loving and healing, and don't even get me started on order 10, pious and guiding, that covers every religious nut job the world over (note, I am a christian, not all religious people are crazy). Without some kind of framework of honour and training to ensure that the surgebinders were intelligent well rounded individuals, such as the orders of the Knights Radiants there was no way to ensure that surgebinders would be 'good' people.

So what I think Nohadon was saying was damnation I wish all the spren would pick people as determined to help their communities as the people that the honourspren choose.

I understand what you're saying here, it all makes sense. However, since I still firmly believe that Honorspren is actually the name for the subset of spren that bond with Radiants (every order) then your explanations don't mesh with what I think. The fact that Nohadon uses the word Honorspren implies to me that spren, other then those that bond with Radiants, could form the Nahel bond at some point. The way I see it, it would be weird if the spren of every order except the Windrunners bonded with humans that shared their attributes like Shallan bonding with a spren who is attracted to truth because Shallan wants to tell the truth and be straight with Jasnah. But why would Kaladin, who is an Order who's attributes are protecting and leading, bond with a spren that is just attracted to Honor in general? It makes more sense to me if Syl is actually a protectionspren, or leadershipspren, which are one of ten types in the overarching group of honorspren (including Shallan's truthspren). However I could be completely wrong on this, your belief makes sense too.

Elantris & Mistborn Spoilers

We have however seen magic systems altered. The shape of every Aon was changed by the Chasm. Allomantic Snapping has also been altered somehow as well by Sazed. I don't think its extremely far fetched that the types of spren you could bond with has been reduced. Perhaps Honor or the Heralds realized that Surgebinding would work better if it was controlled by those with honorable attributes so they altered it.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Windrunner

[hoser]

I like where this thread is going, and as long as Windrunner is participating, I guess it's OK w/him. There seem to be the following possibilities for spren bonding:

1. all radiants bond only w/honorspren, Syl and the symbolheads are all honorspren.

2. all radiants bond only w/10 distinct subclasses of honorspren, Syl and the symbolheads are different kinds of honorspren.

3. all radiants bond only w/honorspren and 9 different other classes of spren including Shallan's symbolhead/truthspren.

Are these the only possibilities that people are attached to?

A separate question has arisen about other spren. Apparently in Nohadon's time some non-honorspren could bond w/non-radiants who would then become non-radiant surgebinders. Is that still possible?

Another point on which I got lost is how we know that Honor is responsible for surgebinding. It seems likely, but I am unclear where it became known.

Cheers

[Smidge]

Syl says that she is an Honorspren, which to me seems a bit unbalenced. The Windrunners get a spren that represents the whole of Honor's intent and the other Surgebinders get lesser spren? It seems odd to me.

...

I could be totally nuts about all this but I really think only one group of Radiants having Honorspren seems weird. What do you think?

The Windrunners' order is #1, they're headed by Jezrien, king of the Heralds, and one of their attributes is leadership. Being presumably the leaders of the radiants I don't think it's too much of a stretch that *their* order are the ones bound to 'Honorspren'.

The alternative of having all sorts of spren bonding with people is just ridiculously messy. Would it mean powers are independent of spren type? 'cause that's one of the few things we think we know. Otherwise it'd mess up the nice and tidy magic system. There are supposed to be hundreds of types of spren... how could there be any rhyme or reason to the powers they give?

[ReaderAt2046]

What about this theory?

There are ten possible "Surgebonds" (A Surgebond grants the ability to use one Surge). Each Nahel bond gives two surgebonds. The ten types of honorspren between them cover all legit surgebond combinations. There are other deciads (groups of ten spren) that grant the same powers, but have no connection to Honor. Nohadon somehow persuaded the spren to only let the ten forms of honorspren bind with humans

[Windrunner]

The Windrunners' order is #1, they're headed by Jezrien, king of the Heralds, and one of their attributes is leadership. Being presumably the leaders of the radiants I don't think it's too much of a stretch that *their* order are the ones bound to 'Honorspren'.

The alternative of having all sorts of spren bonding with people is just ridiculously messy. Would it mean powers are independent of spren type? 'cause that's one of the few things we think we know. Otherwise it'd mess up the nice and tidy magic system. There are supposed to be hundreds of types of spren... how could there be any rhyme or reason to the powers they give?

I don't have any idea. However as much as you think that people being able to bond with all spren would be messy, I think that it would be just as odd if every spren bound with people who exhibited attributes for their Orders except the Windrunners. Protection and Leadership don't have to be Honorable. Just because you're protecting someone doesn't mean they aren't evil, the same with leading bad people. For me it makes way more sense. I'm going to add this question about honorspren to the Ultimate List of Questions for Brandon. Maybe eventually we'll get an answer. Also, I'm totally cool with this discussion getting off topic. The best discussions flow all on their own. However, if any admin thinks we're to off-topic it would also be great to have this thread split.

[Djerf]

Either you’re wrong and a honorspren is a honorspren and a truthspren is a truthspren which seems like a logical way to look at it. Or we have the windspren for the windrunners and stonespren for the stonewardens ect ect and they are called honorspren as a group because they are of Honor, then we should have at least cultivationspren and odiumspren and probably the different combination sprens like odium-cultivating-spren and honorfull-odium-cultivating-spren with their own subset of ten sprens and that brings the total number of spren up to 60 if I count it right. 60 types of spren gives us 60 surges (or 6 ways to access the same 10 surges) and 60 orders of surgebinders (who might or might not have the same surges and combinations thereof) out of which only ten is in the KR.

To me this feels like a stretch so I think I’m going to go with the honorspren=honorspren and truthspren =/= honorspren.

Urithiru could have been built during the years between living through a desolation and writing the book parallel with the ordering of surgebinders.

“Radiant / of birthplace / the announcer comes / to come announce / the birthplace of Radiants.”

This could be read as “Radiant, the announcer of the birthplace comes to announce the birthplace of the Radiants” and it could mean that Nohadon gave his vision of the KR to world at the place where they should build their city.

In order to build it where no one can reach it they would have to have had surgebinders and it was most likely built by the KR with soulcasting or a similar method in order to be built by the hand of no man ( the KR are more then ordinary men and soulcasting does not involve much handy work)

“Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.”

“I walked from Abamabar to Urithiru.”

“My family traveled to Urithiru via the direct method, and had been awaiting me for weeks when I arrived”

This indicates that someone built it (and given my previous statement that surgebinders had to be involved it makes sense for it to be built after a effort to organize them had been undertaken) and that a majority of those asked wanted it to be built in a specific kingdom ( this could have 3 reasons, 1 “I’d like him as a neighbor” 2 “ my new family needs a new home but I’d prefer if I had my mom and dad across the street and besides, it’s close to work” and 3 “ put those crazy bastards where they belong”) and that their wishes could have an effect on the placement, it also tells us that the locations was known before Nohadon died and that a direct method of transportation to Urithiru was available.

Looking back at the ketek the announcer would have to be either a KR or Nohadon himself, radiant in the effect of a guiding light.

The “many wished” and “we asked” might be different groups as in “they wanted us to fight for them but we knew that it could not be so we moved away” and that would mean that the KR asked someone to place Urithiru somewhere else and the only someone that comes to mind is Nohadon.

So looking at the map knowing it’s west of Alethela somewhere that’s inaccessible by mundane means and thinking that Urithiru was something that people wanted to have close

I think that it’s located at the meeting of the kingdoms Valhav, Selatales and Makadakam in the mountain range.

It’s in the middle of the whole continent, not in any specific kingdom, could be high up in the mountains, it’s in reasonable distance to a lot of city’s any of which might have been named Abamabar, and if you look at the map it looks like the whole continent rotates counter-clockwise around this point and that makes as good a argument about where “ the place closest to Honor” lies.