Shallan's grandparents

[+Oltux72]

People are seeing the theory that Shallan's mother was a Herald as confirmed.

That leaves a question. Jasnah and presumably Navani and Dalinar have had a deep look at Shallan's family. Did they just overlook that she has no maternal grandparents? Because that is the implication of her mother being a Herald. Well, technically she had maternal grandparents, but they died thousands of years ago. They are aristocrats. They care about pedigree.

Do we assume that she put up a very good fake identity? But that replaces one question with another one: Why did she bother?

Or do you say that Jasnah knows?

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

People are seeing the theory that Shallan's mother was a Herald as confirmed.

That leaves a question. Jasnah and presumably Navani and Dalinar have had a deep look at Shallan's family. Did they just overlook that she has no maternal grandparents? Because that is the implication of her mother being a Herald. Well, technically she had maternal grandparents, but they died thousands of years ago. They are aristocrats. They care about pedigree.

Do we assume that she put up a very good fake identity? But that replaces one question with another one: Why did she bother?

Or do you say that Jasnah knows?

That's a good question. But we know nothing about Shallan's mother. I think it would be really easy for her to fabricate her ancestry - just say you come from the other side of Jah Keved, some backwater village, low Dahn, tell your parents are dead, steal identity of some dead noble daughter of some dead family, maybe even make a deal with real nobles to cover for you and pretend to be your parents and that's it. 

Why did she bother with that? Well if she is a Herald, who wants to have a family, her madness would have something to do with that. 

I doubt Jasnah knows about it. She would be far more interested in Shallan's family and definitely ask Shallan more about her mother and father, but there was nothing like that.

[Lighteyed Lieutenant]

46 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That's a good question. But we know nothing about Shallan's mother. I think it would be really easy for her to fabricate her ancestry - just say you come from the other side of Jah Keved, some backwater village, low Dahn, tell your parents are dead, steal identity of some dead noble daughter of some dead family, maybe even make a deal with real nobles to cover for you and pretend to be your parents and that's it. 

Why did she bother with that? Well if she is a Herald, who wants to have a family, her madness would have something to do with that. 

I doubt Jasnah knows about it. She would be far more interested in Shallan's family and definitely ask Shallan more about her mother and father, but there was nothing like that.

If Shallan's mother was a Herald, which one would it be based on what we know, and would Shallan killing her mean that now two Heralds are dead? (Jezerin and Shallan's mother?)

[Ravenclawjedi42]

17 minutes ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said:

If Shallan's mother was a Herald, which one would it be based on what we know, and would Shallan killing her mean that now two Heralds are dead? (Jezerin and Shallan's mother?)

Shallan’s mother is usually considered Chanarach in these theories, mostly due to their shared red hair. And Shallan killing her would mean that she’d go back to Braize (most likely).

Stormlight 5 Prologue spoilers:

Spoiler

It is revealed in the prologue that a herald died the same night Gavilar was murdered, which fits the timeframe with when Shallan’s mother died. It is also revealed by Brandon via WoB that Taln did not break, so another herald dying and starting the desolation is definitely possible.

I’m not an expert on this theory, so if I get anything wrong let me know.

[Lighteyed Lieutenant]

Since the Herald (Chanarach) was killed, if she went back to Braise, what happened then? Did she break and that pulled Taln and her back to Roshar? Or something else?

[The Sibling]

42 minutes ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said:

Did she break and that pulled Taln and her back to Roshar?

I think this is what happened, because then it makes sense that the desolation happened even though Taln didn’t break.

[Lighteyed Lieutenant]

So she lasted a few years, but didn't break immediatly, even though she wasn't as strong as before. Ok, thanks. That makes sense.

[alder24]

13 hours ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said:

If Shallan's mother was a Herald, which one would it be based on what we know, and would Shallan killing her mean that now two Heralds are dead? (Jezerin and Shallan's mother?)

Chana. Just read this thread:

 

[Lighteyed Lieutenant]

Alright, that makes sense. Thanks!

[+Oltux72]

On 20.9.2023 at 11:30 PM, Lighteyed Lieutenant said:

Alright, that makes sense. Thanks!

Well, no. It does not make sense. It raises the question why Odium bothered to create the Everstorm, respectively why she happened to die just as the Everstorm was created.

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, no. It does not make sense. It raises the question why Odium bothered to create the Everstorm, respectively why she happened to die just as the Everstorm was created.

Coincidence. Either Odium didn't predict that Chana would die and prepared another plan, or he really wanted to get rid of the Oathpact no matter what. That's why the Everstorm was his new main plan - now even if Herald dies, Fused and Voidspren will remain on Roshar, bound to a constant rebirth cycle in the Everstorm. The Oathpact is just useless now.

[ftl]

Or she might still be on Braize! If she got sent to Braize by the time all the voidspren and Fused were in the everstorm or were preparing for it, they might never have captured her or even realized she was there.

 

 Lots of possibilities.

[alder24]

12 hours ago, ftl said:

Or she might still be on Braize! If she got sent to Braize by the time all the voidspren and Fused were in the everstorm or were preparing for it, they might never have captured her or even realized she was there.

 

 Lots of possibilities.

Unlikely. Even by the time of RoW there were still some Fused on Braize that were never sent to Roshar. Moreover the mechanism of the Oathpact would send her back to Roshar the moment the Desolation started. Per teknopathetic's theory it was Chana who broke, not Taln, it was Chana who allowed Fused to go back on Roshar. Taln was sent back on Roshar BEFORE the Everstorm was summoned, which is how the Oathpact works - it sends Heralds back immediately but keeps Fused and Voidspren from returning for a short time - there were at least 80 days between Taln's return and the Everstorm summoning. She is somewhere on Roshar now.

Alternatively Odium saw a future possibility where Chana died, and he sent Unmades to house Davar to make sure she will die - her death was predicted and exploited by Odium and this allowed Odium to sent Fused on Roshar - the Everstorm alone might not be able to do that.

[Firesong]

On 9/19/2023 at 5:04 PM, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

Shallan’s mother is usually considered Chanarach in these theories, mostly due to their shared red hair. And Shallan killing her would mean that she’d go back to Braize (most likely).

Stormlight 5 Prologue spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

It is revealed in the prologue that a herald died the same night Gavilar was murdered, which fits the timeframe with when Shallan’s mother died. It is also revealed by Brandon via WoB that Taln did not break, so another herald dying and starting the desolation is definitely possible.

I’m not an expert on this theory, so if I get anything wrong let me know.

Actually, there is a lot more evidence. Like she talks about her mother's bravery, and Bravery is an attribute of Chanarach. They also talk a lot about her soul, and the Soul is the body focus associated with Chanarach. 

And, SA5 Prologue spoilers

Spoiler

We know that a Herald died on the day of Gavilar's assassination, and that the death of Shallan's mother and his assassination were very close, thus we confirmed that they were the same day. The prologue also talks a lot about Chanarach before announcing the death of a Herald. 

But, it doesn't mean that two Heralds are dead. In fact, I think Chana is alive, but went to Damnation. She then broke and allowed the True Desolation to come. Which would give a further meaning behind Shallan believing she brought the world to its doom. 

It would also mean Shallan becomes more traumatized. 

There was also the fact that they avoid questions about Shallan's mother, and about if she was a Herald, even in ways that seem to actively be playful. 

Quote

Questioner

Was Shallan's mom a Herald?

Brandon Sanderson

What would make you ask that? The chat, why would they ask that? The Stormfather said that the Heralds-- that that's impossible.

There is just a lot to it. I believe it to just be canon. I just can't imagine it not being true. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Firesong