Duralumin fueled A pewter or fully tapped F pewter?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

I guess I should say that I understand that Duralumin is using all of whatever metal is being burnt and that duralumin usage is dependent on that but I had a question for everyone and figured it was a good time to use a poll. 

What one do you think is capable of making more impact? 

[alder24]

F-pewter - if you stored for 10 years all you could, you would have a massive amount of strength.

A-pewter with duralumin - if you swallow 10 kg of pewter, you would have a massive amount of strength when burned with duralumin. 

It all depends on how much metal and attribute we're talking about. 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

F-pewter - if you stored for 10 years all you could, you would have a massive amount of strength.

A-pewter with duralumin - if you swallow 10 kg of pewter, you would have a massive amount of strength when burned with duralumin. 

It all depends on how much metal and attribute we're talking about. 

That kind of makes me wonder. When it describes feruchemists using pewter it describes them as growing larger muscles. The act of growing makes me feel like it cant be as immediate as a duralumin enhanced pewter effort. But it also makes me wonder if the time the feruchemist is growing the muscles they dont already have the strength. It seems like it is turned up instead of the instant effect. Can a feruchemist use all of the strength instantly even if their body has not fully developed into that form that allows them to use it? 

[Ravenclawjedi42]

I think that, though theoretically they could swallow an insane amount of pewter and burn it with duralumin, there is a limit to how much they could swallow and that their stomachs could hold. The 10 kg mentioned earlier seems very hard to be able to consume, while it does not seem like there are such limits on Feruchemy.

[Quantus he/him]

A - Pewter rather than F-Pewter.  F-Pewter makes you bulkier and tops out in practice by reducing range of motion to zero; you cant actually tap giant back-logs of it the way you can most Feruchemical attributes.  

  

[alder24]

11 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

That kind of makes me wonder. When it describes feruchemists using pewter it describes them as growing larger muscles. The act of growing makes me feel like it cant be as immediate as a duralumin enhanced pewter effort. But it also makes me wonder if the time the feruchemist is growing the muscles they dont already have the strength. It seems like it is turned up instead of the instant effect. Can a feruchemist use all of the strength instantly even if their body has not fully developed into that form that allows them to use it? 

I guess the wait time would be very short, and then they would be able to use thet. Nothing really inconvenient. But If they used too much strength, their muscles would grow too big and they would be unable to move, or maybe even something would break or be crushed in them, killing them. So use Feruchemical strength carefully.

Just now, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

I think that, though theoretically they could swallow an insane amount of pewter and burn it with duralumin, there is a limit to how much they could swallow and that their stomachs could hold. The 10 kg mentioned earlier seems very hard to be able to consume, while it does not seem like there are such limits on Feruchemy.

Metal doesn't have to be in the stomach. It has to be in the body - a metal spike could be burned. That significantly raises the amount of metal you can use for a duralumin powered burst. But still, there is a limit.

Spoiler

Matthew Grady

Does a metal need to be swallowed to be burned? Or can it be injected or snorted?

Brandon Sanderson

It could be either of those two things. Yes. Basically, metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. There's nothing magical about the stomach, even though it works the best when we talk about it. It's just more intermixing the nature of the metal with your soul in the cosmere, your Spiritual entity, is what gives them that ability.

YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

 

Huh, I wonder if iron can be stored in a Bendalloymind - nutrition, calories and fluids can be stored, and metals like iron are important for your body - if you could isolate them and store a crap ton of them in Bendalloymind, then you wouldn't need any vials anymore. 

[Ravenclawjedi42]

5 minutes ago, Quantus said:

F-Pewter makes you bulkier and tops out in practice by reducing range of motion to zero; you cant actually tap giant back-logs of it the way you can most Feruchemical attributes.

Really? I don’t recall this, I assumed it would be like Wax’s iron, where his body can support the added weight.

[Quantus he/him]

40 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

Really? I don’t recall this, I assumed it would be like Wax’s iron, where his body can support the added weight.

Yup, Sazed mentions it at one point (Coppermind says WoA Ch 53) and this WOB clarifies it a bit:

 

Quote

 

Questioner

So, you know when Feruchemists increase their weight or strength, something like that, [...] like when they're increasing their strength their muscles literally grow bigger, why does that not happen with Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

So, the idea with Feruchemy, in Feruchemy you're storing like your own physical strength. So, when you're filling the metalmind, you kind of shrink *inaudible* and you get it back. With Allomancy, you are drawing on the strength magically from something else and so the power and strength you're getting is actually not related to your muscles, it's related to the magical power, you're pulling directly from another place. So, that's why.

Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

  Edited August 28, 2023 by Quantus

[therunner he/him]

I think A-Pewter would be better, simply because it also strengtehs the body. F-Pewter grants strength, but your bones would still shatter trying to get through the door.

Note on A-Duralumin, I don't think it burns everything in an instant, i.e. I don't think you could swallow 10 kg of metal and burn it all at once with A-Duralumin.
Reasoning is that A-Duralumin, A-Nicrosil, A-Chromium and A-Aluminum are all in the same quadrant and have broadly similar effect. But we know that A-Chromium (and by extension A-Aluminum) is not actually instantaneous wiping of reserves, it's just that the amount of metal in Allomancer is typically so small they don't really notice it takes some time.

So I think A-Duralumin and A-Nicrosil will have similar limitation, and there is maximum burn rate that is achievable even with these metals. After all, if A-Chromium takes a while to burn piercing and rings, what sense does it make that A-Duralumin could burn out kg's of metal in less than a second?

[alder24]

4 hours ago, therunner said:

Note on A-Duralumin, I don't think it burns everything in an instant, i.e. I don't think you could swallow 10 kg of metal and burn it all at once with A-Duralumin.
Reasoning is that A-Duralumin, A-Nicrosil, A-Chromium and A-Aluminum are all in the same quadrant and have broadly similar effect. But we know that A-Chromium (and by extension A-Aluminum) is not actually instantaneous wiping of reserves, it's just that the amount of metal in Allomancer is typically so small they don't really notice it takes some time.

So I think A-Duralumin and A-Nicrosil will have similar limitation, and there is maximum burn rate that is achievable even with these metals. After all, if A-Chromium takes a while to burn piercing and rings, what sense does it make that A-Duralumin could burn out kg's of metal in less than a second?

If there is such a limit it has to be huge, as in TLM Wayne burned 17 pouches of bendalloy and it was done instantly. And WoBs say "it burns all metals at the same time":

Quote

Time squeezed in around him, compressed like coal bein’ made into rustin’ diamond. Further, further, as a whole damn stomach full of bendalloy was burned in an instant.

 

Spoiler

Questioner

What happens if you burn duralumin while Compounding?

Brandon Sanderson

Duralumin while Compounding. So, what duralumin does is it burns out of all of your metal in one burst. So it doesn't necessarily gain you power, it makes it all happen at the same time. The same thing would happen.

Questioner

Could you turn into a baby?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, you could totally turn into a baby. That is within the power of using that, doing <health wrong>, yeah you could totally... You'd be really dangerous.

Questioner

But it wouldn't really do much?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh it would have explosive... it does things really fast. That's what it does. Yes you could achieve very powerful sudden effects through that. It'd be scary. Controlling it can be dangerous, regardless of which metal you use.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

But still, the more metal you want to burn, the more duralumin you need as it's being burnt too. 

[therunner he/him]

16 minutes ago, alder24 said:

If there is such a limit it has to be huge, as in TLM Wayne burned 17 pouches of bendalloy and it was done instantly. And WoBs say "it burns all metals at the same time":

Ah, good point on Wayne in TLM forgot that it specifically mentions 'an instant'.

Welp, in that case A-Pewter+A-Duralumin is even surer bet.
 

Quote

But still, the more metal you want to burn, the more duralumin you need as it's being burnt too. 

This is kinda odd though, because if it is instantaneous, and since metals have set burn-rate (including Duralumin), then you should not have to burn more Duralumin to burn more metal.

Edited August 29, 2023 by therunner