WoK: why the parshendi didn’t use shardblades to harvest gemhearts?

[Blackwarder]

Basically the title.

I’m on my Nth reading of WoK and this has always bothered me, do we have any WoB on the subject? Or something in the books that I missed?
It seems silly for them to simply accept pitched battles instead of simply using a shardblades to harvest the gemheart and quickly retreat.

[Aeoryi]

11 minutes ago, Blackwarder said:

Basically the title.

I’m on my Nth reading of WoK and this has always bothered me, do we have any WoB on the subject? Or something in the books that I missed?
It seems silly for them to simply accept pitched battles instead of simply using a shardblades to harvest the gemheart and quickly retreat.

The parshendi didn't have as many shardblades as the alethi, and losing a set of shards to a puny battle was pointless to the parshendi - they didn't want to lose their shards. Thats it. Only reason.

[Blackwarder]

5 minutes ago, Aeoliae said:

The parshendi didn't have as many shardblades as the alethi, and losing a set of shards to a puny battle was pointless to the parshendi - they didn't want to lose their shards. Thats it. Only reason.

That doesn’t make sense, harvesting a gemheart from a chrysalis using a shardblades would take minutes, even if the Alethi forces manage to reach the plateau just after the Parshendi the Parshendi will need to hold them off for a fraction of the time they are depicted doing so in the book if they use a shardblade. No need to suffer the casualties they did or endangering their shards.

[Aeoryi]

27 minutes ago, Blackwarder said:

That doesn’t make sense, harvesting a gemheart from a chrysalis using a shardblades would take minutes, even if the Alethi forces manage to reach the plateau just after the Parshendi the Parshendi will need to hold them off for a fraction of the time they are depicted doing so in the book if they use a shardblade. No need to suffer the casualties they did or endangering their shards.

There could be an ulterior motive here for long drawn conflicts but as for the shard bearer thing: What if the shardbearer goes down? or you lose the shardblade? Considering the Parshendi have like 1 shardblade this would be a really bad thing to waste on something that doesn't really matter. 

[Blackwarder]

Just now, Aeoliae said:

There could be an ulterior motive here for long drawn conflicts but as for the shard bearer thing: What if the shardbearer goes down? or you lose the shardblade? Considering the Parshendi have like 1 shardblade this would be a really bad thing to waste on something that doesn't really matter. 

That why you bring the army with you, hold the Alethi forces for 15 minutes max, than disengage and retreat. And that’s assuming the two forces reach the plateau at the same time, if the Parshendi reach the plateau significantly before the Alethi they would be long gone by the time the Alethi forces will be ready to assault.

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Blackwarder said:

Basically the title.

I’m on my Nth reading of WoK and this has always bothered me, do we have any WoB on the subject? Or something in the books that I missed?
It seems silly for them to simply accept pitched battles instead of simply using a shardblades to harvest the gemheart and quickly retreat.

Because by the time of WoK Parshendi had lost all of their Shards and Eshonai was their only Shardbearer. I doubt she participated in every plateau run. Secondly it would exposed their Shardbearer to enemy attacks - as soon as Alethi would have spotted Eshonai, they would have thrown everything to get to her - and that include several Shardbearers which would quickly smashed through Parshendi lines and get to her to take her Shards. Losing last Shards would be a huge blow for Parshendi. In most battles they had to fight for access to chrysalis first, and that was challenging. Instead of risking their only Shardbearer, and with that any chances for survival of their people, Eshonai was in reserves, ready to jump in in case their forces got surrounded and were in dire need of help.

And that was a war of attrition, I don't think that Parshendi knew why Alethi wanted gemstones, they just reacted to their hunts for chrysalis, and thought Alethi hunted for gemstones because of their greed. By Parshendi tactics, killing as many humans as possible would exhaust their numbers and morale and eventually bring them to peace talks, which was a successful tactic, as Dalinar was willing to do everything to end the war, and willing to negotiate.

But despite all risks, Parshendi were using Eshonai to extract gemhearts, WoR ch 26:

Quote

Adolin leaped over the twitching form of a Parshendi with dead legs and charged the chrysalis, Jakamav following at a clanking jog. Getting to a gemheart was tough—the chrysalises had skin like rock—but with a Shardblade, it could be easy. They just had to kill the thing, then cut a hole so they could rip out the heart and—
The chrysalis was already open.
“No!” Adolin said, scrambling up to it, grabbing the sides of the hole and peering into the slushy violet interior. Chunks of carapace floated within the goop, and a conspicuous gap lay where the gemheart normally connected to veins and sinew.
Adolin spun, searching across the top of the plateau. Jakamav clanked up and cursed. “How did they get it out so quickly?”
There. Nearby, Parshendi soldiers scattered, yelling in their impenetrable, rhythmic language. Standing behind them was a tall figure in silvery Shardplate, a red cloak billowing out behind. The armor had peaked joints, ridges rising like the points on a crab’s shell. The figure was easily seven feet tall, the armor making him look massive, perhaps because it covered a Parshendi who had that carapace armor growing from his skin.
“It’s him!” Adolin said, running forward. This was the one his father had fought on the Tower, the only Shardbearer they’d seen among the Parshendi for weeks, maybe months.
Perhaps the last one they had.
The Shardbearer turned toward Adolin, gripping a large uncut gemstone in his hand. It dripped ichor and plasma.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by alder24

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Because by the time of WoK Parshendi had lost all of their Shards and Eshonai was their only Shardbearer. I doubt she participated in every plateau run. Secondly it would exposed their Shardbearer to enemy attacks - as soon as Alethi would have spotted Eshonai, they would have thrown everything to get to her - and that include several Shardbearers which would quickly smashed through Parshendi lines and get to her to take her Shards. Losing last Shards would be a huge blow for Parshendi. In most battles they had to fight for access to chrysalis first, and that was challenging. Instead of risking their only Shardbearer, and with that any chances for survival of their people, Eshonai was in reserves, ready to jump in in case their forces got surrounded and were in dire need of help.

And that was a war of attrition, I don't think that Parshendi knew why Alethi wanted gemstones, they just reacted to their hunts for chrysalis, and thought Alethi hunted for gemstones because of their greed. By Parshendi tactics, killing as many humans as possible would exhaust their numbers and morale and eventually bring them to peace talks, which was a successful tactic, as Dalinar was willing to do everything to end the war, and willing to negotiate.

But despite all risks, Parshendi were using Eshonai to extract gemhearts, RoW ch 26:

 

Nice Catch! 

WoR, though, yes? I love the symmetrical initial thing, but I that mistake a lot.  

[alder24]

Just now, Quantus said:

Nice Catch! 

WoR, though, yes? I love the symmetrical initial thing, but I that mistake a lot.  

Whoopsie, I was quoting RoW too many times lastly.

[Blackwarder]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Because by the time of WoK Parshendi had lost all of their Shards and Eshonai was their only Shardbearer. I doubt she participated in every plateau run. Secondly it would exposed their Shardbearer to enemy attacks - as soon as Alethi would have spotted Eshonai, they would have thrown everything to get to her - and that include several Shardbearers which would quickly smashed through Parshendi lines and get to her to take her Shards. Losing last Shards would be a huge blow for Parshendi. In most battles they had to fight for access to chrysalis first, and that was challenging. Instead of risking their only Shardbearer, and with that any chances for survival of their people, Eshonai was in reserves, ready to jump in in case their forces got surrounded and were in dire need of help.

And that was a war of attrition, I don't think that Parshendi knew why Alethi wanted gemstones, they just reacted to their hunts for chrysalis, and thought Alethi hunted for gemstones because of their greed. By Parshendi tactics, killing as many humans as possible would exhaust their numbers and morale and eventually bring them to peace talks, which was a successful tactic, as Dalinar was willing to do everything to end the war, and willing to negotiate.

But despite all risks, Parshendi were using Eshonai to extract gemhearts, WoR ch 26:

 

That’s still doesn’t make any sense, if the Parshendi manage to reach the chrysalis before the Alethi forces it takes minutes to harvest the gemheart using a blade. Take the tower for example, it should be a prime candidate for shardblade harvesting due to its proximity to narak and yet when Dalinar and Sadeas reach it the Parshendi are still hitting the chrysalis with hammers.

 

Every time they do so, every time they enter into an extended fight with an Alethi force with shardbearers they stand to lose a disproportionate number of troops, they don’t have the numbers to go to a battle of attrition with the Alethi forces. And considering their mobility advantage it perplexing that they don’t have a shardbearer with every strike force that is bound to reach the plateau before the Alethi forces to quickly cutout the gemheart and get out of dodge instead of having pitched battles with the humans.

 

 

[alder24]

29 minutes ago, Blackwarder said:

That’s still doesn’t make any sense, if the Parshendi manage to reach the chrysalis before the Alethi forces it takes minutes to harvest the gemheart using a blade. Take the tower for example, it should be a prime candidate for shardblade harvesting due to its proximity to narak and yet when Dalinar and Sadeas reach it the Parshendi are still hitting the chrysalis with hammers.

Because Parshendi at the Tower wanted to slaughter as many Alethi as possible, crippling them in the long run, forcing them to the negotiating table. Soldiers are resources in war. This is the war of attrition. Parshendi had two options, face extermination or force them to talk - the second one can be done by killing as many Alethi as possible to exhaust them, and that's what they were doing. By denying them battles Alethi would not be willing to talk, and if they wouldn't just stay in their camps, they would try a different tactic, like advancing into the center - but this time all united, because Parshendi took all gemhearts, and every Alethi Prince wants them. In that case they face extermination. 

The battle of the Tower is exactly the opposite of what you're talking about - the terrain and proximity is highly favorable to Parshendi, they can take larger forces and Alethi have much more distance to cover, which makes them tired before the battle. The slope of the Tower makes it hard for Alethi to advance and there is only one or two plateaus from which they can get on the Tower. It's the perfect battle for Parshendi to take, and those are the reasons why Alethi were never able to win at the Tower, and why they've always suffered heavy casualties, greater than Parshendi. It's the battle Parshendi can take without worrying too much. Perfect to inflict heavy losses. And that’s why Parshendi even stopped thinking about chrysalis during the Battle of the Tower at the end of WoK - they were doing so well that the gemheart simply stopped mattering. 

33 minutes ago, Blackwarder said:

Every time they do so, every time they enter into an extended fight with an Alethi force with shardbearers they stand to lose a disproportionate number of troops, they don’t have the numbers to go to a battle of attrition with the Alethi forces. And considering their mobility advantage it perplexing that they don’t have a shardbearer with every strike force that is bound to reach the plateau before the Alethi forces to quickly cutout the gemheart and get out of dodge instead of having pitched battles with the humans.

Not every time. During WoK it was often remarked by Kaladin that Sadeas suffered high losses or lost a battle. Parshendi weren't at disadvantage. If they were to secure the plateau first, they would have a huge advantage over Alethi, as they have to cross through bridges which are their choke points. Parshendi can inflict high casualties even despite Shardbearers presence. Once Sadeas was almost killed, another time at the Tower Dalinar and Adolin with their whole army were almost killed - those were the opportunities for Parshendi to shift the war in their favor. Parshendi need to kill Alethi to have any hopes for peace. They have to fight. Of course on many occasions Alethi arrived too late and Parshendi already extracted a gemheart and left without a battle. But if they arrived more or less at the same time, fighting is the best they could do to sue for peace. It's the war of attrition, you need to make your enemy suffer to make him willing to negotiate at all. 

Forcing your Shardbearer join every single battle would be extremely exhausting for her, and would certainly lead to her death. Parshendi had already lost every Shard except those Eshonai had, they couldn't allow to lose those too. Eventually Alethi would have punched through Parshendi lines when she would have been extracting the gemstone, unable to fight - in those minutes several Alethi Shardbearers would be standing in front of her and she would have to fight them all. That's not a good tactic. She couldn't do it every battle.