What exactly is a Highstorm? SA3

[Stormlit Shard he/him]

I'm not the most well-versed on this topic and it might have been mentioned in the book but what exactly is a Highstorm? It's obviously a storm with lightning thunder and strong winds but is it also like a tornado or a hurricane? I heard it has caused huge boulders to come out of the ground and has knocked down plateaus before. It also causes mass flooding on the shattered plains. And on that note, what is the Everstorm exactly as well? Is it like a hurricane or does it even rain in the everstorm? And some people in the book say the lighting is deliberate in the Everstorm. I know that they are the storms of Honor and Oduim but could someone please clarify it? I might have just missed the answer in the book but it would help if someone could give a detailed explanation on it.

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, Stormlit Shard said:

I'm not the most well-versed on this topic and it might have been mentioned in the book but what exactly is a Highstorm? It's obviously a storm with lightning thunder and strong winds but is it also like a tornado or a hurricane? I heard it has caused huge boulders to come out of the ground and has knocked down plateaus before. It also causes mass flooding on the shattered plains. And on that note, what is the Everstorm exactly as well? Is it like a hurricane or does it even rain in the everstorm? And some people in the book say the lighting is deliberate in the Everstorm. I know that they are the storms of Honor and Oduim but could someone please clarify it? I might have just missed the answer in the book but it would help if someone could give a detailed explanation on it.

Highstorm is a massive hurricane-like storm, but unlike hurricanes, it isn't circular or rotating but it's a massive straight stormfront, moving ~370 mph across the Roshar (for comparison the strongest winds on Earth ever recorded was ~250 mph, while the cat. 5 hurricanes have sustained winds reaching ~150 mph, and move with speeds 10-40 mph across Earth's surface). It's natural, but also magical - it provides Stormlight, Honor's investiture, and is somewhat controlled by Stormfather. It causes massive amounts of rain (that's why chasms on Shattered Plains are flooded, as they are holes in the ground to which water flows), and crem (which contains minerals and nutrients necessary for plants to live) and has very strong winds. Because of how strong the winds are, it can rip trees from the ground and even throw boulders into the air. Highstorms travel from east to west, but get weaker the further west it goes.

Everstorm is basically the same but opposite. It travels from west to east every 9 days, 120 mph, has strong winds and rain, and lightning too - but not always, sometimes Everstorm has no rain or winds, only lightning, conditions can change drastically and unnaturally. That's because the storm of Odium, it carries with it his spren and also Odium controls this storm - he can make it stronger/weaker, target lightning strikes at will or even stop it in place. Where both Highstorm and Everstorm meet, they amplify their power creating even stronger winds - that is what knocked whole plateaus down.

Highstorms are inspired by Jupiter's Red Spot.

Spoiler

Higgy Baby

Do the highstorms and Everstorm orbit Roshar like rings?

Brandon Sanderson

Rings is the wrong term. There's not another highstorm on the other side of the world. There is one highstorm blowing around. They were sort of mini-based on the Spot of Jupiter. But they move around; it's a massive hurricane that moves around the planet.

It goes around the planet, but if what you're asking is: "Is there a ring of highstorm? And so when it's on one side, it's on the other side?" That is not the case. There is a highstorm that's going around, an Everstorm that's going the other direction around the planet; and they are very wide, enormous storms. But imagine a storm of Jupiter moving around the planet, rather than staying where it is.

Forbidden Planet Interview (Nov. 18, 2020)

 

Those are basics, if you want more details you can read coppermind page about Highstorm and Everstorm, but be aware, there are Oathbringer and Rhythm of War spoilers there: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Highstorm and for Everstorm https://coppermind.net/wiki/Everstorm

[Treamayne]

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Hope that helps.

50 minutes ago, Stormlit Shard said:

I'm not the most well-versed on this topic and it might have been mentioned in the book but what exactly is a Highstorm? It's obviously a storm with lightning thunder and strong winds but is it also like a tornado or a hurricane? I heard it has caused huge boulders to come out of the ground and has knocked down plateaus before. It also causes mass flooding on the shattered plains. And on that note, what is the Everstorm exactly as well? Is it like a hurricane or does it even rain in the everstorm? And some people in the book say the lighting is deliberate in the Everstorm. I know that they are the storms of Honor and Oduim but could someone please clarify it? I might have just missed the answer in the book but it would help if someone could give a detailed explanation on it.

Highstorm is, essentially, a Continent-sized Invested Super-Typhoon (Hurricane, etc.). In WoK Ch 35 you see Kaladin experience the storm's "eye" (which is one big indication that it is hurricane-shaped, in addition to the shape of the continent itself). On Roshar, they call this the "Centerbeat." Kaladin's visions occur near the centerbeat, because the large amounts of investiture (stormlight) can cause time dilation for those experiencing the centerbeat. 

As a Typhoon-based storm, it has copious rain and crosswinds that are also "adjusted" for the speed with which it crosses land (it's primary difference with Hurricanes, which slow significantly after "landfall") which is what causes the Stormwall, as an amalgum of forward motion winds and storm-created crosswinds. Electrical activity in this type of storm is minimal to none. From the other wiki:

Spoiler

Hurricanes typically generate some lightning, mainly in the rainbands as much as 160 km (99 mi) from the center

We also know that Roshar was created by Adonalsium to be as it is, and the storms have always been an integral part of the ecology of the planet. ( @alder24 covered much of this)

#####

However, the Everstorm is an Invested Continent-Sized Thunderstorm, which are characterized as moving in straight or arcing bands, rather than the rotational configuration typical of tropical depressions (hurricanes, typhoons, etc). As an invested Supercell, it is characterized by bands of little-to-no-rain alternating with bands of heavy rain - but all bands experience a higher incidence of invested electrostatic discharge. Fan theories beleive that Stormspren (a type of voidspren) can influence where and how some lightning strikes, but I don't think that has been confirmed. Odium has been shown to manipulate it directly, when the purpose suits him (OB-Climax). The reported feelings of maliciousness in the storm is likely bleed-over from Odium's investiture in the storm and may not specifically apply to what is damaged by the winds and lightning. 

Hope that helps.

 

Edit:

8 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Highstorm is a massive hurricane-like storm, but unlike hurricanes, it isn't circular or rotating but it's a massive straight stormfront,

Where do you get that? We see the center of the storm in WoK. The perceived stright-line winds are a function of the band being continent sized (a large enough circle can make any given small arc appear straight) coupled with the windshear of it's movement causing the leading edge stormwall winds to vector in two directions. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Treamayne
Question

[Firesong she/her]

I feel they explain it at length, but it is basically a heavily Invested hurricane-like storm. That is what both of them are, but they are both Invested by different types of Investiture.

The Everstorm also moves at a slower rate and in the opposite direction from the Highstorm. 

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Highstorm?&oldid=133437

Here is a link to the page from before RoW and Dawnshard. Thus it only contains information from SA1-3 and Edgedancer. 

(Ah, people already gave a significantly better answer than me, good job you two)

Edited August 24, 2023 by Firesong

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Where do you get that? We see the center of the storm in WoK.

This, WoK ch 36:

Quote

Kaladin blinked. All was still. The storm was quiet, and everything was purely dark. I’m dead, he thought immediately. But why could he feel the wet stone roof beneath him? He shook his head, dripping rainwater down his face. There was no lightning, no wind, no rain. The silence was unnatural.
He stumbled to his feet, managing to stand on the gently sloped roof. The stone was slick beneath his toes. He couldn’t feel his wounds. The pain just wasn’t there.
He opened his mouth to call out into the darkness, but hesitated. That silence was not to be broken. The air itself seemed to weigh less, as did he. He almost felt as if he could oat away.
In that darkness, an enormous face appeared just in front of his. A face of blackness, yet faintly traced in the dark. It was wide, the breadth of a massive thunderhead, and extended far to either side, yet it was somehow still visible to Kaladin. Inhuman. Smiling.
Kaladin felt a deep chill—a rolling prickle of ice—scurry down his spine and through his entire body. The sphere suddenly burst to life in his hand, aring with a sapphire glow. It illuminated the stone roof beneath him, making his st blaze with blue re. His shirt was in tatters, his skin lacerated. He looked down at himself, shocked, then looked up at the face.
It was gone. There was only the darkness.
Lightning ashed, and Kaladin’s pains returned. He gasped, falling to his knees before the rain and the wind. He slipped down, face hitting the rooftop.
What had that been? A vision? A delusion? His strength was eeing him, his thoughts growing muddled again. The winds weren’t as strong now, but the rain was still so cold. Lethargic, confused, nearly overwhelmed by his pain, he brought his hand up to the side and looked at the sphere. It was glowing. Smeared with his blood and glowing.

I don't think that's the eye of the Highstorm, rather a vision sent by Stormfather (massive face in the sky is a clue). I don't know if the eye of the storm is completely silent (I know light can reach it). But I might be wrong.

Wouldn't the leading edge with the strongest winds appear once more on the other side of the main body, after it passes? It should appear twice, instead Kaladin noted clearly that winds weren't that strong anymore after this vission/eye. For me that suggests that Highstorms are unnaturally not rotating, just straight stormfront moving across the continent. But I don't know hurricanes well enough to know this.

But if Highstorm has the eye, how wide would it be for spheres across the entire Roshar to be renewed? It has to be either as large as Roshar is high or weirdly elongated, so spheres could be renewed almost at the same time in Herdaz, Kholinar, Kharbrant and Thaylen. For me this doesn't make sense, it can't be circular. 

[Treamayne]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Wouldn't the leading edge with the strongest winds appear once more on the other side of the main body, after it passes? It should appear twice

No, that's what I was trying to convey on wind vectors (check windy.com for live examples - use the slider on the right to change altitudes to see how motions and bands affect wind speed and direction): Bascially, at the leading edge you have the cross winds tripled+ on themselves as the forward motion collapses what would normally be separate bands of wind into one massive push. On the trailing edge, the same forward motion dispurses the winds and causes the riddens. 

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

But if Highstorm has the eye, how wide would it be for spheres across the entire Roshar to be renewed? It has to be either as large as Roshar is high or weirdly elongated,

I don't think the eye is the only thing that can renew spheres - it's the heavies concentration and allows the time dilation but Kaladin showed that Stormlight is throughout since he can access it even at the Stormwall. Also, the bands near the eyes would be almost as concentrated. My conjecture is that absorb through exposure but even a dun sphere set out near the center would fill in that over-concentrated bands. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Treamayne
Second quote

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

No, that's what I was trying to convey on wind vectors (check windy.com for live examples - use the slider on the right to change altitudes to see how motions and bands affect wind speed and direction): Bascially, at the leading edge you have the cross winds tripled+ on themselves as the forward motion collapses what would normally be separate bands of wind into one massive push. On the trailing edge, the same forward motion dispurses the winds and causes the riddens. 

I don't think the eye is the only thing that can renew spheres - it's the heavies concentration and allows the time dilation but Kaladin showed that Stormlight is throughout since he can access it even at the Stormwall. Also, the bands near the eyes would be almost as concentrated. My conjecture is that absorb through exposure but even a dun sphere set out near the center would fill in that over-concentrated bands. 

I should have just searched for WoB:

Spoiler

leinton (paraphrased)

Do highstorms have a rotation? The way they're described, they do not sound like storms on Earth.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They do not, and that they are unlike Earth storms in their structure. They do not have an eye, unless you count going to see the Stormfather in them.

Shadows of Self San Diego signing (Oct. 8, 2015)

 

[Treamayne]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I should have just searched for WoB:

  Hide contents

leinton (paraphrased)

Do highstorms have a rotation? The way they're described, they do not sound like storms on Earth.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They do not, and that they are unlike Earth storms in their structure. They do not have an eye, unless you count going to see the Stormfather in them.

Shadows of Self San Diego signing (Oct. 8, 2015)

 

That seems to directly conflict with the number of WoBs that all call them hurricanes - including the one you quoted about it being based on Jupiter's Storm. 

Odd that the one time the physics matches the story - the WoB says the opposite. . . 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Treamayne

[Stormlit Shard he/him]

Thanks for all the insight on the subject.