War chasmfeinds

[Xiahida]

So, what if Chasmfiend were domesticated and used for war? If different arts were mixed we can build a mount that can fulfill different uses. A Radiant who is also a Coinshot could launch themselves off a plate of metal on the chasmfiend to launch directly into enemy lines and shatter them. Those same plates can be used for maneuverability like when Kelsier was fighting that Inquisitor. Even just a Shardblade while riding one can be destructive. Aluminum plates can cover the legs so a Shardbearer can't immobilize it. Any other possibilities or uses?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Xiahida said:

So, what if Chasmfiend were domesticated and used for war? If different arts were mixed we can build a mount that can fulfill different uses. A Radiant who is also a Coinshot could launch themselves off a plate of metal on the chasmfiend to launch directly into enemy lines and shatter them. Those same plates can be used for maneuverability like when Kelsier was fighting that Inquisitor. Even just a Shardblade while riding one can be destructive. Aluminum plates can cover the legs so a Shardbearer can't immobilize it. Any other possibilities or uses?

I have had similar ideas but with a pack of lifeless whitespines. A mobile group of killing machines all capable of being a launching pad for your next push or pull. 

I don't think lifeless chasmfiend would work as well as something smaller like whitespine. It has to do with the gemheart and if it is broken i don't know that a chasmfiend could move at all really. 

How would you tame one?  Maybe throw a hemalurgic spike or two or three into it and dominate it with emotional allomancy.  

Would it have the capacity to be manipulated via F duralumin?  

I am sure a bondsmith could belch in its direction and tame it via connection. 

Other ways to use it? You could awaken a ton of ropes and attach saddle bags full of large stones or explosives and use the ropes to launch them. Mobile artillery. 

[Xiahida]

The way I see is that young ones are taken from their parents and raised by humans. After breeding them for a while you have a good army. Spiking them can help for in depth control. The ropes would be an awesome use in war.

I think the chasmfiend bonds mandra and that is what the gemheart is for I think.

Breeding them is a better long term option in my opinion.

How does F duralumin manipulate them though?

[Xiahida]

They could also carry large number of soldiers (Or some lifeless whitespine) to supply the front lines. They can also carry supplies. 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Xiahida said:

So, what if Chasmfiend were domesticated and used for war? If different arts were mixed we can build a mount that can fulfill different uses. A Radiant who is also a Coinshot could launch themselves off a plate of metal on the chasmfiend to launch directly into enemy lines and shatter them. Those same plates can be used for maneuverability like when Kelsier was fighting that Inquisitor. Even just a Shardblade while riding one can be destructive. Aluminum plates can cover the legs so a Shardbearer can't immobilize it. Any other possibilities or uses?

There is a problem, they are sapient, they are very intelligent. I think trying to domesticate them might be morally questionable.

But they would indeed be very powerful assets in war, just one ramming into enemy ranks would destroy the whole formation, which your troops can easily follow and exploit. Shardblades are mostly useless against them, and if you fortify their legs with some invested or aluminum armor they're fully immune to them. Mount spikes and blades on legs for extra damage. They would be like Mumakils from LoTR but bigger and deadlier.

4 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

The way I see is that young ones are taken from their parents and raised by humans.

We don't know young Chasmfiends, they are making chrysalis and then emerge as Chasmfiends from it. We've never seen their young ones.

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[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

There is a problem, they are sapient, they are very intelligent.

Are they? Intelligence I get, sapience, I don't think so. It's called into question with the ending of RoW, but I still don't think they're sapient.

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Are they? Intelligence I get, sapience, I don't think so. It's called into question with the ending of RoW, but I still don't think they're sapient.

Yes, it's because of RoW that I think they are sapient. A Chasmfiend seemed to protect Timbre and decided that Eshonai is worthy to bond with her. The ending of RoW is another thing - a Chasmfiend saved Listeners when two storms hit and protected them ever since. I think those are big signs of sapience. Ryshadium also is sapient, Khriss in Arcanum Unbounded calls them like that.
Or at least both of them are above animal level intelligence, closing in on human level intelligence, nearly sapient, which in my opinion would make it morally questionable to treat them like that.

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Questioner

Would a macaw be able to become a Radiant? Or do you need sentience?

Brandon Sanderson

You need sapience. A macaw could not become a Knight Radiant. A macaw could, theoretically, enter a symbiotic spren bond, which would have different effects. Like, Ryshadium or even most of the larger greatshells don't have sapience. But a lot of creatures on Roshar do have what I would term an in-between step between human-level intelligence and animal-level intelligence on Earth. Ryshadium are in this; chasmfiends, as well, are smarter than an animal can get on Earth.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Yes, it's because of RoW that I think they are sapient. A Chasmfiend seemed to protect Timbre and decided that Eshonai is worthy to bond with her. The ending of RoW is another thing - a Chasmfiend saved Listeners when two storms hit and protected them ever since. I think those are big signs of sapience. Ryshadium also is sapient, Khriss in Arcanum Unbounded calls them like that.
Or at least both of them are above animal level intelligence, closing in on human level intelligence, nearly sapient, which in my opinion would make it morally questionable to treat them like that.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Would a macaw be able to become a Radiant? Or do you need sentience?

Brandon Sanderson

You need sapience. A macaw could not become a Knight Radiant. A macaw could, theoretically, enter a symbiotic spren bond, which would have different effects. Like, Ryshadium or even most of the larger greatshells don't have sapience. But a lot of creatures on Roshar do have what I would term an in-between step between human-level intelligence and animal-level intelligence on Earth. Ryshadium are in this; chasmfiends, as well, are smarter than an animal can get on Earth.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

We don't know if they were influenced at all when they saved the Listeners, and Timbre's inhabiting and then leaving the Gemheart of a Chasmfiend may not have required any conscious thought from the Chasmfiend.

I can see why you think that, but we don't have anything quite concrete yet. Even so, I doubt they're sapient. Near-sapient like the Ryshadium maybe, but not sapient.

[Xiahida]

If they were sapient it would essentially be humans using Ryshandium for war. They also say they have bred greatshells to have bigger gemhearts so the morality of these actions could be debated.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Xiahida

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

10 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

If they were sapient it would essentially be humans using Ryshandium for war. They also say they have bred greatshells to have bigger gemhearts so the morality of these actions could be debated.

But humans don't keep and breed Ryshadium for war. Occasionally, individual Ryshadium can choose a rider and go with them to war, but Ryshadium are by no means controlled unless they choose to, which seems to be an individual choice. The fact that they choose to go to war makes it humane, so long as they're treated right, which if they weren't, they wouldn't stand for.

Regular Greatshells aren't sapient, so it's no more inhumane to breed and farm them as it is to breed and farm cows or other farm animals irl. There's something to be said about the conditions that breeding and farming takes place in, but it's not impossible to do it in a humane fashion.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Xiahida said:

If they were sapient it would essentially be humans using Ryshandium for war. They also say they have bred greatshells to have bigger gemhearts so the morality of these actions could be debated.

I don't think they've said they are breeding greatshells to have bigger gemhearts, Shallan was talking about alternatives to chrysalis hunts. Chulls are bred but those aren't greatshells. From Coppermind:

Quote

Greatshells breed slowly, and for most species, their populations are generally small. They all reproduce the same way: an adult greatshell transforms (pupates) into a chrysalis, which eventually produces a number of young.[9] They do not seem to have a singular biome they thrive in; they can be found as far east as the Shattered Plains, as far west as Aimia, and as far north as the Reshi Isles.[4][2] Their sheer size makes domesticating most species unfeasible, although there are stories of greatshell riders in places like Kadrix.[2]

 

[Xiahida]

I admit I was wrong about Chulls being greatshells but there are breeding programs to produce bigger gemhearts.

[Frustration he/him]

It would probably require a boon from the Nightwatcher to accomplish, but I think Chasmfiends are probably not the way to go.

Whitespines are more aggressive and breed faster.

If you are willing to put in the time and effort you might as well go with the Lanceryn as they have several advantages over Chasmfiends, namely flight and the ability to consume Investiture.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Frustration

[Xiahida]

My main use of them was how fast they are and how strong they are.