DSC01 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Okay, obviously, this will be a spoiler-filled topic because my primary concern here is if anyone has any clue as to who he could be. That is, does anyone have any speculation about a character from another book who could be him? It seems likely that he's from Hoid's planet, so maybe he hasn't shown up elsewhere, but I feel like he should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) My take; I don't think he's someone we've seen yet. Aside from the fact he is big on hunting and gathering investiture, and the obvious wounds, we don't know enough yet. Edited July 24, 2014 by Savanorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 He's a shifty guy. Something tells me he might be a Worldhopper or something. (Checks Coppermind Wiki). Yep, he's definitely a Worldhopper in my view. He's gotten a bit desperate though, since he did attempt to attack Taln personally (I mean, who else uses a blowdart?). He's certainly got the characteristics of a Worldhopper, since he likes to collect "local weaponry", and he's got some very stylish clothes. So stylish in fact, that they've never been seen outside of Nalthis... Mraize does remind Shallan of Hoid, and that's as good a hint as any about him being a Worldhopper. He is fairly involved in Roshar, though. But then, we are looking at this with Hoid standards. Hmm... Maybe Mraize is the Kandra Worldhopper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 It's interesting that the only time the masked man appears, instead of a Herald, in the imagery on the chapter headings is when Hoid is an important part of the chapter. There is one exception, and that is the chapter where Shallan meets Mraize. Hoid isn't there at all. That seems significant. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 He's a shifty guy. Something tells me he might be a Worldhopper or something. (Checks Coppermind Wiki). Yep, he's definitely a Worldhopper in my view. He's gotten a bit desperate though, since he did attempt to attack Taln personally (I mean, who else uses a blowdart?). He's certainly got the characteristics of a Worldhopper, since he likes to collect "local weaponry", and he's got some very stylish clothes. So stylish in fact, that they've never been seen outside of Nalthis... Mraize does remind Shallan of Hoid, and that's as good a hint as any about him being a Worldhopper. He is fairly involved in Roshar, though. But then, we are looking at this with Hoid standards. Hmm... Maybe Mraize is the Kandra Worldhopper... Mraize is almost certainly a worldhopper...but I think it's Iyatil who tries to kill Taln? It's interesting that the only time the masked man appears, instead of a Herald, in the imagery on the chapter headings is when Hoid is an important part of the chapter. There is one exception, and that is the chapter where Shallan meets Mraize. Hoid isn't there at all. That seems significant. I think the Masked Man signifies mystery, or perhaps the 'bigger picture' beyond Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 One clue would be to look at where his name's coming from. Scadrial seems to have french and german sounding names, Hallendren and the Austere followers have sharp vowels, occasional double consonants, and a tendency towards polysyllabic names, except when they don't. Sell has so many styles I don't even know, from the Aonic style, Jindonese, Grands, MaiPon, etc. The world of Shadows didn't have enough to really tell. And, of course, he could even have a numerical name from First of the Sun that was given to Shallan phonetically. However, his similarities to Hoid are probably connected to a single factor - possibly its the worldhopping, but I doubt that's all of it. I think we can assume that Hoid and he have a similar past, in terms of what they did. I would guess that he's Yoleni, and immortal or as close to it as makes no difference. That would account for the language used to describe him. And what is up with Ilyatil? If that's a magic system, it must make for some really creepy damnation fight scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I've moved this to the WoR board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I don't think we've seen Mraise anywhere before. I don't have my copy of WoR to hand, but the implication I got from it was that he was a world-hopper, had some kind of relationship with Hoid, and had a fairly distinctive appearance with a twisted hand. The last part is important because I would be very surprised if Mraize doesn't make an anonymous cameo outside of Stormlight Archive sometime before the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11thorderknight Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Does anyone else find it interesting that he refers to Iyatil as his babsk? For one thing, it's a Thaylen word, and neither he nor Iyatil appear to be Thaylen (although the name Mraize does have that Thaylen not-enough-vowels thing going for it, but in that case, he's shaving his eyebrows pretty regularly). For another, it means that he's her apprentice, which is not at all what the relationship looks like from the outside. And yet, they don't try to hide it, so she's not really pulling a "man behind the curtain" act with him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Does anyone else find it interesting that he refers to Iyatil as his babsk? For one thing, it's a Thaylen word, and neither he nor Iyatil appear to be Thaylen (although the name Mraize does have that Thaylen not-enough-vowels thing going for it, but in that case, he's shaving his eyebrows pretty regularly). For another, it means that he's her apprentice, which is not at all what the relationship looks like from the outside. And yet, they don't try to hide it, so she's not really pulling a "man behind the curtain" act with him.That makes me wonder if Mraize is from a proto- or pre-Thaylen culture that brought certain traditions. That would explain his age, at least. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted July 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I haven't read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, but Mraize uses "shadows" as an expletive at one point. Is it possible that there's a connection there? Isn't the magic system there somehow tied to disabilities? That could explain his severe scarring, if he was intentionally wounding himself to gain power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 There's no magic system, as such. But when you die you become a ghoulish shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Mraize is almost certainly a worldhopper...but I think it's Iyatil who tries to kill Taln? It was coated with a stun poison. It's meant to incapacitate people, not to kill them. Also, they were shooting it at Amaram, not Taln. Taln was just in between them and caught the dart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I agree with most of this. Upvote It was coated with a stun poison. It's meant to incapacitate people, not to kill them. Also, they were shooting it at Amaram, not Taln. Taln was just in between them and caught the dart. Are we sure that it was a stun poison? We know that they used a nonlethal poison before, but it seems like they could also have lethal poisons. I am also unclear about whether they wanted to stop Amaram from getting "Taln," kill Amaram or capture Amaram. If they wanted to capture or kill Amaram, why wait until he is with "Taln." If they attacked before he was with "Taln", he couldn't have been saved by "Taln." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Are we sure that it was a stun poison? We know that they used a nonlethal poison before, but it seems like they could also have lethal poisons. I am also unclear about whether they wanted to stop Amaram from getting "Taln," kill Amaram or capture Amaram. If they wanted to capture or kill Amaram, why wait until he is with "Taln." If they attacked before he was with "Taln", he couldn't have been saved by "Taln." It's very likely. Mraize already said that the ghostbloods were not going to harm or kill Amaram, as his life belongs to somebody else (Kaladin, maybe?). As to why they attacked when they did, it was probably to get a clear shot from a hidden, private area. A dart hitting the wrong person could cause a public hysteria, as would seeing Amaram captured in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted July 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Okay, I just read Shadows for Silence. I'm not sure where I read about that magic system, but clearly, I was conflating two different stories. Still, they definitely use "shadows" as a curse there, so I'd say that Mraize at least spent some time on Threnody, even if he's not from there. Nothing about his scarring seems to indicate withering from a shade, so I'm out of ideas for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 It's very likely. Mraize already said that the ghostbloods were not going to harm or kill Amaram, as his life belongs to somebody else (Kaladin, maybe?). As to why they attacked when they did, it was probably to get a clear shot from a hidden, private area. A dart hitting the wrong person could cause a public hysteria, as would seeing Amaram captured in public. What I am saying is that we don't know whether it was stun poison or not. Your previous post stated it as fact, which I disagree with. As for the likelihood, I have no idea how you evaluate the probability. I agree that it makes sense, as, if they wanted to kill him, why wait until he's with Taln. IIRC, Mraize did not say that the Ghostbloods were not going to hurt or kill Amaram. He forbade Shallan killing him. We have no idea who his life belongs to, but, unless the Ghostbloods are working with or for someone else, it makes sense that it would be a Ghostblood who claims Amaram's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted July 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Well, it does seem likely that the darts would only stun him, as it is likely the same blowgun that Mraize had earlier, and that didn't even kill a cremling. But it's obviously not clear what was going on there, so I wouldn't state that as a fact. Amaram has certainly pissed a good many people off, and I'd be surprised if the reason the Ghostbloods didn't want Shallan killing him wasn't that one of them wanted to do the job personally. We'll have to see. Oh, I checked out the Ishikk interlude and found the masked man at the head of that chapter too, so clearly, that just means that there are worldhoppers in the chapter. I had initially connected it too strongly to Hoid, and I was suspecting Mraize to be Yolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) I haven't read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, but Mraize uses "shadows" as an expletive at one point. Is it possible that there's a connection there? Isn't the magic system there somehow tied to disabilities? That could explain his severe scarring, if he was intentionally wounding himself to gain power. Its not Shadows! You are confusing it with Ashyn (a planet in Greater Roshar) and the story is "The Silence Divine". Otherwise I upvote your idea, as Mraize "obviously?/aparently?" using the Ashyn magic system has something to it! Why don't you make a theory out of it and post, so it gets some proper discussion? Edit: Encouraging DSC01 to properly make a theory ;-) Edited August 1, 2014 by Atastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have to agree that the probability lies in it not being a lethal poison. We only have precedent of them using a non-lethal poison with the blow gun, and Mraize says that "Amaram's life belongs to another." Is it outside the realm of possibility that it's a lethal poison? No, but with text based precedent I think it's a more than reasonable assumption to make. Oh, I checked out the Ishikk interlude and found the masked man at the head of that chapter too, so clearly, that just means that there are worldhoppers in the chapter. I had initially connected it too strongly to Hoid, and I was suspecting Mraize to be Yolish. Look carefully at the characters in that interlude that Ishikk talks to, especially the dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 What are you getting at? There's one from Sel, one from Scadrial, and one from Bavadin's planet (does it have a name that we know of?). Obviously, they're looking for Hoid. But I think their interlude, along with Mraize's chapter, proves that the masked man figure denotes the presence of worldhoppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 one from Bavadin's planet (does it have a name that we know of?) Taldain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Oh, yeah! I remember now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketek Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 What are you getting at? There's one from Sel, one from Scadrial, and one from Bavadin's planet (does it have a name that we know of?). Obviously, they're looking for Hoid. But I think their interlude, along with Mraize's chapter, proves that the masked man figure denotes the presence of worldhoppers. The Taldain worldhopper is named Baon, I think. He's an archer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagylpus Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) About the masked man chapter header - every chapter where it appears, Hoid is referenced in some way. Either he appears, or the characters talk about him or think about him. In the Mraize chapter, Shallan briefly recalls her encounter with Hoid from her childhood. So the masked man does not have to be related to Mraize at all, besides the fact that he reminded Shallan of Hoid. Edited August 5, 2014 by Gagylpus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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