Hemalurgy stealing Feruchemical abilities *Spoilers*

[Aradel]

Yes erm...

So I think that adding a hemalurgic spike to a ferring to improve their power should grant them more ability to squeeze? their metalminds for feruchemic juice. Without worrying about the pulp of diminishing returns.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I suppose it might also help with precise control over how much they are storing/tapping at one time.

[Kurkistan]

In case anyone's missed it, Deux Ex moved our tangential discussion of terms over to this thread.

[TheChronicFeruchemist]

Though the more I think about it the more Vin's earing becomes a bad example, I feel like sensing another's magical abilities is more like pushing or pulling on emotions, it is less measurable than something such as strength or senses. Though this is just my interpretation. Do we know what effects a steal spike would have on a pewter arm? If so it might be easier to figure out the correlation in feruchemy.

Though maybe I was looking in the wrong direction, perhaps the spikes we should be using are Iron, Tin, Zinc, and Copper. Those steal actual physical atributes rather than allomantic or feruchemical powers. This way the feruchemist could physically have more to store.

I'm quoting myself from right when this whole thing got distracted. =P So back to on topic. I feel like we are on the right track but something seems a little off. I feel like hemalurgy would have more of an effect then just some technicality. Though the idea I had from earlier might be the correct route. Who knows.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

A Pewterarm with a Pewter-granting Spike would have the same effects as it does on any kind of Misting: they would get more power for their metal burned, and they would be able to burn a larger amount at once.

But the problem remains: assuming they do not Compound, or (sigh) tap power faster than they filled it, all Feruchemists use their abilities with a 100% yield - no more, and no less. So the answer here must be somewhat more subtle than it is for Allomancy.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Aranfan]

I will again put forward the benefit of being able to use the metalminds of the feruchemist who the spike was made out of.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Huh.

I had just been assuming that was true, aranfan, but upon re-reading the Brandonthology, it's not mentioned specifically there.

I still believe it, regardless.

[Dahak]

That depends on if the storage flaw is in the metal or from the person. Do we know if metalminds have to be the exact alloy like allomantic metals do?

Yes. Feruchemical storages are the same alloys as Allomantic metals. Sazed told Vin IIRC. That's howe they can be burned for compounding.

[Kurkistan]

Yes. Feruchemical storages are the same alloys as Allomantic metals. Sazed told Vin IIRC. That's howe they can be burned for compounding.

A more interesting question arises from this: What are the effects of metal purity upon Feruchemical storage? Do purer metalminds draw large amounts of energy more efficiently? (As asked much earlier in this thread, before tangent-land)

Edited December 2, 2011 by Ookla the Conformist

[Arcanist Lupus]

A more interesting question arises from this: What are the effects of metall purity upon Feruchemical storage? Do purer metalminds draw large amounts of energy more efficiently? (As asked much earlier in this thread, before tangent-land)

I vaguely remember the purity of metalminds being mentioned somewhere in a book or by Brandon, but I don't remember what it said.

[CrazyRioter]

I'd assume purity does matter, probably it affects how much you can store in a particular piece of metal.

[Aradel]

I'd think that it would make for a weaker investment overall. The metal is what tells the power of Harmony what to do. If it's not pure, the message is muddled, and every aspect of using it for Feruchemy becomes more difficult.

[Ari]

I was re-reading HoA and the answer to what decays (and thus presumably what would be enhanced if you spiked a feruchemist or ferring with a power they already have) is in the chapter bumps: It's storage speed. You cannot store a quality as fast when granted a feruchemical ability via a spike. Here's the quote:

Ch. 36 heading, (pg. 249, first edition US hardcover) emphasis mine.

In Hemalalurgy, the type of metal used in a spike is important, as is the positioning of that spike on the body. For instance, steel spikes take physical Allomantic powers - the ability to burn pewter, tin, steel, or iron - and bestow them upon the person receiving the spike. Which of these four is granted, however, depends on where the spike is placed.

Spikes made from other metals steal Feruchemical abilities. For example, all of the original Inquisitors were given a pewter spike, which - after first being poinded through the body of a Feruchemist - gave the Inquisitor the ability to store up healing power. (Though they couldn't do so as quickly as a real Feruchemist, as per the law of Hemalurgic decay.) This, obviously, is where the Inquisitors got their infamous ability to recover from wounds quickly, and was also why they needed to rest so much.

So, we know for sure that you at least get increased storage speed, and it's reasonable to assume you're also able to access the appropriate metalminds from the feruchemist that was spiked, although we don't have confirmation of that.

This makes a reasonable amount of sense, as before compounding was available through the mixture of Allomancy and Feruchemy, the speed with which abilities was stored regulated both how often Feruchemists could use an ability, and how strongly they could tap it.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Ari

[fyodor]

I read this to mean that the Inquisitors lost a certain amount of healing that they stored away- they put in 1.0 units of healing but got 0.8 out. It would seem though that this is the type of thing that topped off at unity-you can never get more back than you store.

I was re-reading HoA and the answer to what decays (and thus presumably what would be enhanced if you spiked a feruchemist or ferring with a power they already have) is in the chapter bumps: It's storage speed. You cannot store a quality as fast when granted a feruchemical ability via a spike. Here's the quote:

Ch. 36 heading, (pg. 249, first edition US hardcover) emphasis mine.

So, we know for sure that you at least get increased storage speed, and it's reasonable to assume you're also able to access the appropriate metalminds from the feruchemist that was spiked, although we don't have confirmation of that.

This makes a reasonable amount of sense, as before compounding was available through the mixture of Allomancy and Feruchemy, the speed with which abilities was stored regulated both how often Feruchemists could use an ability, and how strongly they could tap it.