Prediction For Stormlight 5 (Spoilers for RoW)

[Jace The Firesworn]

Taravangian Finds some sort of loophole (this one isn't super strong) in the contest of champions

Ba-Ado-Mishram has connected with the Honor Shard. (I say this one to explain how she had access to so much Investiture)

They Find Mishram's prison, release her, and they find a way to bond (and possibly heal) the dead Higher Spren.

(I feel this one is more of a given) Kaladin speaks the 5th ideal

The Honorspren either accept the knights ooooorrrrr Completely reject them and bunker down for the rest of the war. Similar of the Inkspren

Dalinar speaks the 4th maybe 5th Ideal

The Stormfather decides to let Dalinar use him as a Shardblade for the contest.

 

What do The people of the Shard think?

[Spearguy]

OOHH I've been waiting for the chance do do this.

(in order of relevance to the main plot)

Shallan finds Ba-Ado-Mishram and has to carry her gemstone around from world to world to keep it from the ghostbloods

Szeth swears the fifth ideal and accepts true responsibility for his actions, but in doing so he acknowledges himself as evil meaning that nightblood kills him, but in doing so nightblood gets the last little push needed to truly develop a conscious.

Dalinar actual ends up choosing  Adolin as his champion, fulfilling both of their arcs. Dalinar in his difficulty giving up control and Adolin's in his feeling that he is useless and has nothing to of major value to contribute anymore.  However Dalinar intervenes to save Adolin (or Odium's champion if it is someone Dalinar cares about) thus not only forfeiting the contest but also "killing" the Stormfather 

Kaladin finally ends up becoming the new main vessel of Honor's power as Dalinar is no longer a candidate.

I picked these characters as they were some of the main viewpoint characters in the first halve (the fifth being venli but I have no idea of how her arc will finish or even if it will be finished in stormlight five.)

[Koloss17]

Okay, well my honest thought is that one of the main characters needs to die. 
 

I feel like it can’t be Dalinar or Lift, as they are seeded by Cultivation to be future vessels, and even if their plan doesn’t work, something has got to happen with all that.

It can’t be Kaladin, as he is kind of Honor’s champion, and he needs to get over his trauma. Technically, he could die, but I doubt Brandon wants his big depressed character’s arc to end with them dying.

It can’t be Shallan, as she both has a lot of character growth to still do, as well as also Brando not wanting to screw up the one piece of DID rep he got.

It could be Szeth, but since he’s already died a few times, I doubt his arc is going to end by finally dying already.

My bet is on two characters, and those two are Syl and Adolin.

Syl because her real arc was being the rebel, and after that, she had just kind of acted as a support and sane person to Kaladin’s Big Sad.

Adolin because while his big arc is to totally bond Maya, he could definitely do that and then die.

I’m leaning more on the side of Syl than Adolin, as I want our golden retriever boy to be happily married and to cheer on another generation of maybe war criminals. But if it’s done well enough, I’m sure it can be a wild ride.

 

Past that scalding take, I think Kelsier and his gang will be more active during this book. Maybe they’ll step in to fight the fused, maybe a few members will break loose. Either way, we’ll be having more Ghostbloods.

I also hope that we get more Lift, as she hit hard in RoW, and I feel that her character arc is just getting started.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Koloss17

[alder24]

13 hours ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

Taravangian Finds some sort of loophole (this one isn't super strong) in the contest of champions

Well, I think he has already found one  RoW ch 114

Quote

There was so much to do. He sorted through Odium’s previous plans and saw all their flaws. How had he let himself be maneuvered into this particular deal with Dalinar? How had he let himself rely so much upon a contest of champions? Didn’t he know? The way to win was to make sure that, no matter the outcome, you were satisfied. Odium should never have entered a deal he could not absolutely control.

It can still be done, Taravangian realized, seeing the possibilities—so subtle—that his predecessor had missed. Yes ... Dalinar has set himself up ... to fail. I can beat him.

 

13 hours ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

Ba-Ado-Mishram has connected with the Honor Shard. (I say this one to explain how she had access to so much Investiture)

Interesting idea, but would Stormlight allow Singers to access Regal powers? It might as Venli could power Surgebinding with Voidligth, but she had a Voidspren bound in her too. I think it's just Voidlight, She as an Unmade had a very strong connection to Odium, she the strongest of them all. I think she connected to Roshar itself, rather than Honor (I don't think it would be possible for her), and that's why her imprisonment hurt everyone that belongs to Roshar (as the Sibling said).

13 hours ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

Dalinar speaks the 4th maybe 5th Ideal

So you say he will survive the Contest?

13 hours ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

The Stormfather decides to let Dalinar use him as a Shardblade for the contest.

I don't think Stormfather is able to manifest as a Shardblade, like other spren. He likely already exist in PR and already has a physical form, just like the Sibling and Nightwatcher. He can't really be in two places at once. And what Dalinar did hurt Stormfather very much, which further supports the idea he can't do that.

 

13 hours ago, Spearguy said:

Shallan finds Ba-Ado-Mishram and has to carry her gemstone around from world to world to keep it from the ghostbloods

Why not just release her? 

13 hours ago, Spearguy said:

Szeth swears the fifth ideal and accepts true responsibility for his actions, but in doing so he acknowledges himself as evil meaning that nightblood kills him, but in doing so nightblood gets the last little push needed to truly develop a conscious.

Nightblood won't work anymore on Szeth, as Szeth has drawn him, form a bond and isn't tempted anymore by Nightblood. And how would that made him conscious? Nightblood already is conscious and sentient.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher's Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person. It's not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.

Warbreaker Annotations (June 22, 2011)

 

Spoiler

Travis Gafford

End of [Words of Radiance], Szeth meets Nightblood. Nightblood normally makes people feel very sick as a test. He does not have this. And I'm curious if there's a reason for that other than you didn't want to end your book with Szeth puking in a corner.

Brandon Sanderson

What happens when you take Nightblood is based entirely on what your desire on how to use Nightblood is. If your intent does not align with Nightblood's created Intent, which is kind of a deep, Cosmere sort of thing. But, basically, if you want Nightblood because you can then destroy all of your enemies, you're not gonna match to that Intent. If your desire to use Nightblood is either: "I don't even want to use Nightblood," you're actually gonna be fine; or if your desire to Nightblood is matching what Nightblood's view is... And Szeth is, like, the perfect person, because Szeth only wants to do what he's told, and Nightblood kind of only wants to do what he's told. So there's, like, a perfect alignment. They're both messed up in the same way, and they both view the world in the same way, and it's hard to find a more perfect alignment than those two. And so, because of that, there was just no reaction. And that should be something that I wanted people to pick up on.

Miscellaneous 2022 (Nov. 28, 2022)

Of course Szeth can just draw Nightblood out and wait for him to consume his soul, but it won't be something like "oh I'm evil now, Nightblood will take control over me"...

13 hours ago, Spearguy said:

Dalinar actual ends up choosing  Adolin as his champion, fulfilling both of their arcs. Dalinar in his difficulty giving up control and Adolin's in his feeling that he is useless and has nothing to of major value to contribute anymore.  However Dalinar intervenes to save Adolin (or Odium's champion if it is someone Dalinar cares about) thus not only forfeiting the contest but also "killing" the Stormfather 

Oh I like this idea, Adolin as Dalinar's champion and Dalinar stepping in to save him.

 

12 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Okay, well my honest thought is that one of the main characters needs to die. 

I feel like it can’t be Dalinar or Lift, as they are seeded by Cultivation to be future vessels, and even if their plan doesn’t work, something has got to happen with all that.

Well, Dalinar can still die during the Contest, be turned into CS by Odium, as per contract, and still live after his death leading Odium's army into Cosmere.

12 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

My bet is on two characters, and those two are Syl and Adolin.

NO! You monster, take those words back!

12 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

cheer on another generation of maybe war criminals.

That's brilliant  

 

 

I don't think I was supposed to argue with your ideas guys, sorry, I just couldn't resist. 

[Jace The Firesworn]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

So you say he will survive the Contest?

16 hours ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

I think that he will speak the 4th before the contest. No clue whether he will survive it

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't think Stormfather is able to manifest as a Shardblade, like other spren. He likely already exist in PR and already has a physical form, just like the Sibling and Nightwatcher. He can't really be in two places at once. And what Dalinar did hurt Stormfather very much, which further supports the idea he can't do that

I think the issue was less that he was used as a shardblade and more that he did it against his will. Although you do bring up a good point.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Interesting idea, but would Stormlight allow Singers to access Regal powers? It might as Venli could power Surgebinding with Voidligth, but she had a Voidspren bound in her too. I think it's just Voidlight, She as an Unmade had a very strong connection to Odium, she the strongest of them all. I think she connected to Roshar itself, rather than Honor (I don't think it would be possible for her), and that's why her imprisonment hurt everyone that belongs to Roshar (as the Sibling said).

I think that you make a very good point here. I hadn't thought about Mishram connecting to Roshar itself. I wonder how that would work...

[alder24]

5 minutes ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

I think that he will speak the 4th before the contest. No clue whether he will survive it

That's only 10 days. I don't think he is that close to it. But during the Contest I can swear it for sure, which would be a good time for it, as something new and unpredictable could arise forcing Dalinar to change his opinion and take a next step.

8 minutes ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

I think that you make a very good point here. I hadn't thought about Mishram connecting to Roshar itself. I wonder how that would work...

Probably something on a big scale, She connected herself to Roshar, just like Shards are connected, she became an important part of Roshar, which allowed her to Connect to all Singers. But everyone was also connected to her as well, and when she was imprisoned, that part of connection was ripped away from all, some like spren were more affected, Singers because they were directly connected to her were affected the most. Hard to say how it was.

[Jace The Firesworn]

22 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That's only 10 days. I don't think he is that close to it. But during the Contest I can swear it for sure, which would be a good time for it, as something new and unpredictable could arise forcing Dalinar to change his opinion and take a next step

That would be a very good time. Because it's already confirmed that when radiants take an oath from the second onward, they get a surge of power. So Dalinar taking the oath then would make a lot of sense. HA BRANDON!! WE GOT YOU NOW!!

[Spearguy]

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Nightblood won't work anymore on Szeth, as Szeth has drawn him, form a bond and isn't tempted anymore by Nightblood. And how would that made him conscious? Nightblood already is conscious and sentient.

 

Sorry I meant conscience

Quote

 

 

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Brandon Sanderson

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher's Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person. It's not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.

only somewhat, also whether or not nightblood views you as evil depends on your own self image

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't think I was supposed to argue with your ideas guys, sorry, I just couldn't resist. 

no that's part of the point of making theories, peer review 

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Why not just release her? 

It might be that once she is released it wont be possible to put her back, that the situation is not right yet, but either was Ba-Ado-Mishram is gonna be found by someone, probably Shallan

[alder24]

24 minutes ago, Spearguy said:

Sorry I meant conscience

It can be debated if he's already conscience or not.

25 minutes ago, Spearguy said:

only somewhat, also whether or not nightblood views you as evil depends on your own self image

 

And just above the bolded part it says: "It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person." So yes, drawing out Nightblood does make you immune to both temptation and nausea? And drawing Nightblood out makes you immune to that self-perception. Denth held Nightblood in Warbreaker and had no problems with carrying and throwing him into the sea. Denth doesn't perceive himself as a good person, he clearly told Vasher that he doesn't deserve to forget what he had done. You can resist Nightblood if you have a strong will or long history with the sword. Nightblood also didn't kill at first the person who fished him out of the sea.

And it's just better to draw the blade and let him consume your soul. That what Denth would do if he was able to kill Vasher:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Vasher and Denth's Climax

I wanted to offer Denth the chance for redemption here, though there was no way he was going to let himself take it. His response is honest. He doesn't feel he deserves it. He has done terrible things; to wipe away the memory of them would be cheating. Better to just get it over with.

There's a very good chance that after killing Vasher, Denth would have walked over, picked up Nightblood, and let the sword drain his life away. He wouldn't have been able to live with the guilt.

[...]

Warbreaker Annotations (July 18, 2011)

Moreover, why would Szeth consider himself an evil person in the future? He wasn’t killing because he wanted, but because he was ordered to and was crying when doing so. He might already consider himself a bad person, as he thinks he deserves only hatred from Navani. Now he's on a good side, has a chance for redemption and is fighting for a just cause, wanting to free his people from the influence of corrupt people. For me that won't make sense.

39 minutes ago, Spearguy said:

It might be that once she is released it wont be possible to put her back, that the situation is not right yet, but either was Ba-Ado-Mishram is gonna be found by someone, probably Shallan

That's the point, you want to release her and never put her back in a gem. She might be able to heal the damage done by her capture. 

[YeomanoftheBowman]

Is a confrontation with Zahel and Azure a possibility? I don't think it's related enough to the plot of Stormlight to be in the book, but it's also somewhat of a loose end. Maybe it will be addressed in an interlude?

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, YeomanoftheBowman said:

Is a confrontation with Zahel and Azure a possibility? I don't think it's related enough to the plot of Stormlight to be in the book, but it's also somewhat of a loose end. Maybe it will be addressed in an interlude?

Yes, it is possible, there will be more Zahel in SA5.

Spoiler

Vishal Pani

Why didn't Kaladin seek help from Zahel during the occupation of Urithiru?

Brandon Sanderson

Zahel... At some point I'll tell you what he was doing, but he was not available. That is a RAFO.

It came up multiple times, and there were various points where I was going to delve into it, and it just was one of those things that I just could not fit in. It is a thing that I wanted to, because we have this foreshadowing that Zahel's there; like, we have a scene with him and Kaladin to remind everyone that Zahel's around. And then we don't even bring him up. Alpha readers asked about it, beta readers asked about it. I could not find time for it. So maybe you'll get a deleted scene that is not a deleted scene, that's just a scene that I eventually write, showing what he's doing. This is one of those things like: what happened with Elhokar and the Herdazians and why does Lopen think he's a king? That scene just never fit into the books either.

Maybe I'll do it, maybe I won't. It's entirely possible, both options are possible. If I eventually never do it, I'll talk about it, but we are gonna have a little more Zahel in an upcoming volume of the Stormlight Archive, where some of these things coming out might fit into the story, to the point that your answers will come in that volume. There's a lot of various moving parts on what's going on with Zahel, and with Azure as well, and their relationship to Nightblood that there's just not space in the Stormlight Archive to talk about.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

[The Stick]

I personally believe Kaladin will die by the end of the book. He has nearly reached the end of his arc with no room left to grow. He has healed some of the scars if his life. I have no idea about Syl, but Kaladin will swear the fifth ideal and gain massive power. He will then die protecting Lirin, finishing his growth and closing the arc. Kaladin for 5 more books is unreasonable, there are not enough ideals and not enough for Kaladin to heal from. The reconciliation of Kaladin and Lirin is the only thing left.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, The Stick said:

I personally believe Kaladin will die by the end of the book. He has nearly reached the end of his arc with no room left to grow. He has healed some of the scars if his life. I have no idea about Syl, but Kaladin will swear the fifth ideal and gain massive power. He will then die protecting Lirin, finishing his growth and closing the arc. Kaladin for 5 more books is unreasonable, there are not enough ideals and not enough for Kaladin to heal from. The reconciliation of Kaladin and Lirin is the only thing left.

You know that Kaladin doesn't have to play a major role in the back 5 books? He can be just a background character, when new characters like Lift and other flashback characters, Oroden, Adin, or Shallan's kids will become a new focus. Just like Kelsier, Marsh and Sazed weren't major PoV in Mistborn era 2. Kaladin can become a mental health healer, advocate for unification of Singers and humans, rediscover his ties to the crown and Aesudan, discover what's up with the "son of Tanavest" title, "pick up the fallen title, the tower, the crown, and the spear", Ascend to Honor or some less important duties like training new generation of Windrunners etc. I think he can stick around for longer. But he can die as you said, it's a real possibility.

[Jace The Firesworn]

 

1 hour ago, The Stick said:

I personally believe Kaladin will die by the end of the book. He has nearly reached the end of his arc with no room left to grow. He has healed some of the scars if his life. I have no idea about Syl, but Kaladin will swear the fifth ideal and gain massive power. He will then die protecting Lirin, finishing his growth and closing the arc. Kaladin for 5 more books is unreasonable, there are not enough ideals and not enough for Kaladin to heal from. The reconciliation of Kaladin and Lirin is the only thing left.

I don't think he's going to die. I also don't think Kaladin is going to get the Honor Shard. I think Dalinar, has the best chance if anyone gets that Shard.

2 hours ago, YeomanoftheBowman said:

Is a confrontation with Zahel and Azure a possibility? I don't think it's related enough to the plot of Stormlight to be in the book, but it's also somewhat of a loose end. Maybe it will be addressed in an interlude?

I think that will either 

1. Be addressed in another Cosmere work. something like Arcanum Unbounded

2. He will do it as an interlude. Maybe in the next Nalthis book...

[Leuthie]

• Dalinar will die in the first Act, Stormfather will die with him, most of Book 5 will take place during a permanent Weeping.
• Ishar will be Odium's champion.
• Kaladin will be forced to pick up the Honor Shard as part of the Sanderlanche that will include releasing Bo-Ado-Mishram which will bring all dead spren back, release the Parshendi from Odium, wake up the Heralds from their madness, and restore the Highstorm.
• Shinovar will be flooded and all earthlike life will die minus some Ark-like side quest (save the chickens 2 by 2) that Kaladin has an integral part in
• The Honor blades will be retrieved only to be consumed in the Sanderlanche
• Shallan and Adolin will be pursued by the new Fused we met at the end of ROW in their pursuit of Mishram's gem. One of them will be killed during the Sanderlanche where Mishram is released.
• Ummmm....that's all I can think of now.

[Spearguy]

4 hours ago, The Stick said:

I personally believe Kaladin will die by the end of the book. He has nearly reached the end of his arc with no room left to grow. He has healed some of the scars if his life. I have no idea about Syl, but Kaladin will swear the fifth ideal and gain massive power. He will then die protecting Lirin, finishing his growth and closing the arc. Kaladin for 5 more books is unreasonable, there are not enough ideals and not enough for Kaladin to heal from. The reconciliation of Kaladin and Lirin is the only thing left.

This, there are view things that I would ever like to down vote, but this comes close. For Kaladin to die in the story would completely trivialize his entire arc of choosing life before death. Sanderson can hit with some emotional gut punches at the end of his books, but he only does this to reinforce characterization, not destroy it.  

P.S sorry I don't have any personally beef with you, it's just that I feel that killing off many main characters in stormlight feels as though it would be a betrayal. A major theme of the entire series is in the Immortal words "life before death". The noblest sacrifice in the world can in reality be easier and less helpful than continuing to live.

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

2. He will do it as an interlude. Maybe in the next Nalthis book...

Next Nalthis book, Nightblood, will take place on Nalthis and explain why Vasher and Vivenna are on Roshar.

11 hours ago, Leuthie said:

releasing Bo-Ado-Mishram which will bring all dead spren back, release the Parshendi from Odium, wake up the Heralds from their madness

I don't think BAM is related to Herald's madness, their mental state is because their magically extended lifespan, which every CS suffers from, most notably Fused.

Spoiler

celestialwolf157

By the way, Kaladin's comment on Taln and Shalash's mental health makes me wonder: Are the Ten Fools based on the Heralds after they broke the Oathpact? Having 9 immortal, mentally ill people on Roshar for millenia seems like it'd have spawned some stories that could have eventually become stories of the Ten Fools. Taln wouldn't be included in this, but with Vorinism and the number 10, I imagine they'd have created something to oppose his virtues.

Also, I can't remember if this is confirmed or not, but on the topic of the Heralds' mental health, is it at all supernatural? Taln seemed to recover somewhat when Dalinar summoned the perpendicularity at the end of Oathbringer. So, is it just severe PTSD, or something supernatural is involved?

Brandon Sanderson

I've tried to make it clear in talking about the books that I separate what has happened to the Heralds and normal mental health. What they're suffering from is in large part supernatural--and has to do with the way souls (or Cognitive Shadows) work in the cosmere. So you are correct. This doesn't mean that some normal treatments wouldn't help them, but their core problem has a huge supernatural component.

And yes, there IS a relationship between the ten fools and the Heralds, though people on Roshar wouldn't be able to point it out.

mastapsi

Is the Heralds' madness related to and/or the same thing as the Fused's madness? The Stormfather mentions that each time one of the Fused is reborn, their mind is further damaged. Is it the same with the Herald? To many rebirths, possibly compounded by the fact that they not only often died each Desolation, but were tortured until the next one?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, these two things are related. (There are some hints in Rhythm of War at how Hoid has avoided a similar fate.)

Note that the torture--and the many rebirths--are a big part of this. But their age is also a factor.

3DLightweaver

Does this mean that a certain Cognitive Shadow from the Mistborn series is fated to go insane?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on a lot of factors. But the longer a Cognitive Shadow exists, the more likely these problems are.

dce42

Would this affect the Returned as well? What about those with a lot (like 8,000) breaths since they are not cognitive shadows.

Brandon Sanderson

Returned are Cognitive Shadows. In the Cosmere, there is no way to bring someone back to life, other than normal medical resuscitation, without using a Cognitive Shadow.

Stromeng

What about Dalinar? I thought he has had textbook PTSD, but the screams he continued to hear turned out to be magic.

Brandon Sanderson

Dalinar has a whole host of issues, not easily defined by a single definition. Assume, though, that his mental state is a normal response to, in part, supernatural occurrences.

The different for the Heralds is that they have conditions which could only truly exist in the cosmere, even if some of the manifestations and symptoms are similar to what could happen on Earth.

Stonewalker16

So is that implying that Hoid is a Cognitive Shadow, or is that just an effect of being really really old? Also does Vasher know about/how to avoid these effects? Probably an RAFO, but...

Brandon Sanderson

Come back to that question in about a month or so.

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Sept. 8, 2020)

 

 

[Edro2702]

I feel like there is a problem with kaladin dying, due to something that is said in Oathbringer. While on the honorspren ship during a conversation with the ship’s captain, notum tells kaladin that he should kill kaladin in order to end the naheal bond between kaladin and sylphrenna something he remarks, would work until the fifth oath. So, what happens at the fifth oath?

if you’re curious to go look for yourself it’s in Oathbringer chapter 108. I think

[The Stick]

Thanks, I will look at it. I am thinking that could mean Radiants become some sort of strange cognitive shadow after death. Maybe this explains the story of lost radiants haunting storms or some of the strange things in sp4.

Edit: I meant Windrunners rather than regular Radiants.

Edited May 26, 2023 by The Stick

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Edro2702 said:

I feel like there is a problem with kaladin dying, due to something that is said in Oathbringer. While on the honorspren ship during a conversation with the ship’s captain, notum tells kaladin that he should kill kaladin in order to end the naheal bond between kaladin and sylphrenna something he remarks, would work until the fifth oath. So, what happens at the fifth oath?

if you’re curious to go look for yourself it’s in Oathbringer chapter 108. I think

I don't have an English version of OB, but Notum didn't tell that killing him after 5th Ideal wouldn't work. He told, translated:

Quote

- It's not too late. Killing you would set her free, though it would be too painful. There are other ways, at least until the Last Ideal is said.

Killing her would just work. But there are also other ways to "set her free" but those other ways won't work after the 5th Ideal. But killing him will work even then.

[Leuthie]

On 5/26/2023 at 4:19 AM, alder24 said:

I don't think BAM is related to Herald's madness, their mental state is because their magically extended lifespan, which every CS suffers from, most notably Fused.

Kinda mashed that all together. Didn't mean to attribute the Heralds healing to BAM. Kaladin picking up Honor will allow him to shore up the Heralds' sanity. But there's part of me that thinks the Heralds will be the back five book antagonists.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Leuthie

[alder24]

28 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

Kinda mashed that all together. Didn't mean to attribute the Heralds healing to BAM. Kaladin picking up Honor will allow him to shore up the Heralds' sanity. But there's part of me that thinks the Heralds will be the back five book antagonists.

Will it? If Shard could heal them that easily, Odium would heal his Fused a long time ago.

[Leuthie]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Will it? If Shard could heal them that easily, Odium would heal his Fused a long time ago.

Why would he? Odium doesn't care about his Fused. They're useful tools. Sometimes made more useful by being insane.

It's possible that any degradation of a cognitive shadow is permanent. However, many of the viewpoint characters in the back 5 are Heralds, and the Heralds gained sanity during Dalinar's opening of the Perpendicularity. So there's something there.

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Leuthie said:

Why would he? Odium doesn't care about his Fused. They're useful tools. Sometimes made more useful by being insane.

He doesn't need to care for his troops to make sure Fused are at least mentally capable to lead Singer and don't stare into a wall all the time. Having a mentally stable Fused is far more beneficial than how they are right now.

9 hours ago, Leuthie said:

It's possible that any degradation of a cognitive shadow is permanent. However, many of the viewpoint characters in the back 5 are Heralds, and the Heralds gained sanity during Dalinar's opening of the Perpendicularity. So there's something there.

Yes, there is something there. It's not about perpendicularity but about Radiant swearing new ideal, as Ishar said in ch 111:

Quote

"I can see clearly,” the voice said from within the perpendicularity. “I do not know why. Has a Bondsmith been sworn? We have a Connection, all of us.... Nevertheless, I feel my sanity slipping. My mind is broken, and I do not know if it can be healed.

“Perhaps you can restore me for a short time after an Ideal is spoken near me. Everyone sees a little more clearly when a Radiant touches the Spiritual Realm."

I just doubt it would be that easy, just Ascend and heal them.  Their madness is partially caused by people's perception about them and 10 Fools - this might not be as easily healable as we think. And as Eshonai has proven, a flashback character doesn't have to be alive to have flashbacks (but in the case of Ash and Taln I think they will be alive).

Spoiler

Questioner

The Heralds seem to be insane in the ways of their Divine Attributes, at least somewhat. Is this because they're Heralds? As Cognitive Shadows, they're subject to people's perception, like how spren are?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very astute question, and yes, that is influencing them quite a bit. I'm doing something here with the Heralds. Like, I want the Heralds "madnesses," as we call them, to be magical diseases. And the contrast of something like Kaladin's depression, which I'm trying to treat very real-world. I'm trying to treat them as these things that couldn't exist in our world. They're fantastical mental diseases, like we have fantastic physical diseases in Elantris. So I did make them thematic, and I would say part of the reason for that is people's perception of them and their mental state reacting against that. And that should be a theme among all of the Heralds.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

 

[therunner]

58 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I just doubt it would be that easy, just Ascend and heal them.  Their madness is partially caused by people's perception about them and 10 Fools - this might not be as easily healable as we think. And as Eshonai has proven, a flashback character doesn't have to be alive to have flashbacks (but in the case of Ash and Taln I think they will be alive).

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Questioner

The Heralds seem to be insane in the ways of their Divine Attributes, at least somewhat. Is this because they're Heralds? As Cognitive Shadows, they're subject to people's perception, like how spren are?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very astute question, and yes, that is influencing them quite a bit. I'm doing something here with the Heralds. Like, I want the Heralds "madnesses," as we call them, to be magical diseases. And the contrast of something like Kaladin's depression, which I'm trying to treat very real-world. I'm trying to treat them as these things that couldn't exist in our world. They're fantastical mental diseases, like we have fantastic physical diseases in Elantris. So I did make them thematic, and I would say part of the reason for that is people's perception of them and their mental state reacting against that. And that should be a theme among all of the Heralds.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

 

 I think Shard could heal them, however it could be blocked by Intent. (e.g. Honor could not heal them because their madness was at least partially caused by oath-breaking, Cultivation did not see reason to heal them, or could not interfere for another reason).

I mean, Shards can make planets, sentient and sapient species with souls, heal Savantism and most likely a lot of other stuff.
I don't see why somehow this would be out of their powers. Perhaps the healing would be only temporary, but I think they most certainly could do it.

Edited May 31, 2023 by therunner