Prediction For Stormlight 5 (Spoilers for RoW)

[alder24]

58 minutes ago, therunner said:

I don't see why somehow this would be out of their powers. Perhaps the healing would be only temporary, but I think they most certainly could do it.

Temporary healing would certainly be possible for a Shard. 

But If Shards were able to heal CS's mind, then why not make them in such a way for their mind not to be affected by CS status? That is a far simpler solution and if healing would be that easy for a Shard, then making them immune to madness in the first place should be possible too.

Did we see a person's broken mind being healed by a Shard? Not body or soul, but mind. The only thing that fits is Elantrians, Riino and Raoden getting back from Reod, but they aren't CS and they are better suited for living very long than others.

[therunner he/him]

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Temporary healing would certainly be possible for a Shard. 

But If Shards were able to heal CS's mind, then why not make them in such a way for their mind not to be affected by CS status? That is a far simpler solution and if healing would be that easy for a Shard, then making them immune to madness in the first place should be possible too.

It is possible that minds simply cannot be created in such a way as to not be affected by being CS. Nature of mortals, lets say.
Similarly how you cannot be immune to Savantism, it is simply a consequence of 'laws of realmatics'.

Shards are not all powerful, so they could not make you immune to it, but they already shown great ability to affect mind, body and soul, so I think it should be well within their abilities.

34 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Did we see a person's broken mind being healed by a Shard? Not body or soul, but mind. The only thing that fits is Elantrians, Riino and Raoden getting back from Reod, but they aren't CS and they are better suited for living very long than others.

We did not see a persons broken body be healed by a Shard, and yet it is not impossible.

Shards interfere directly very rarely, the most examples we have are from Era 1, and most are shortly after Shard changed hands. So it is not surprising we don't have examples.

[Leuthie]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

He doesn't need to care for his troops to make sure Fused are at least mentally capable to lead Singer and don't stare into a wall all the time. Having a mentally stable Fused is far more beneficial than how they are right now.

Yes, there is something there. It's not about perpendicularity but about Radiant swearing new ideal, as Ishar said in ch 111:

I just doubt it would be that easy, just Ascend and heal them.  Their madness is partially caused by people's perception about them and 10 Fools - this might not be as easily healable as we think. And as Eshonai has proven, a flashback character doesn't have to be alive to have flashbacks (but in the case of Ash and Taln I think they will be alive).

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Questioner

The Heralds seem to be insane in the ways of their Divine Attributes, at least somewhat. Is this because they're Heralds? As Cognitive Shadows, they're subject to people's perception, like how spren are?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very astute question, and yes, that is influencing them quite a bit. I'm doing something here with the Heralds. Like, I want the Heralds "madnesses," as we call them, to be magical diseases. And the contrast of something like Kaladin's depression, which I'm trying to treat very real-world. I'm trying to treat them as these things that couldn't exist in our world. They're fantastical mental diseases, like we have fantastic physical diseases in Elantris. So I did make them thematic, and I would say part of the reason for that is people's perception of them and their mental state reacting against that. And that should be a theme among all of the Heralds.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

 

No one said "Easily healable". If swearing a new ideal can wake them up, what will willingly taking up the mantle of Honor do? Narratively, the Heralds will be more interesting if they gain some lucidity. Right now they're barely a sideshow. If they're important in the back 5, they'll be, at least partially, fixed. This is my wild prediction. I know the issues with it, I know it's far-fetched, but there are reasons it would work and simple foreshadowing for it. Stop debunking it with your well thought out logic. 

[Scars of Hathsin he/him]

Could we see Kaladin or Szeth say an ideal near Ishar, because Szeth is close, maybe not so much for Kaladin,  but it will end up healing Ishar in the process?

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Scars of Hathsin said:

Could we see Kaladin or Szeth say an ideal near Ishar, because Szeth is close, maybe not so much for Kaladin,  but it will end up healing Ishar in the process?

Fully healing? No way - Dalinar swearing 3rd Ideal didn't fully heal Taln nor Ash. That's too little.

[a Faceless Immortal he/him]

My guesses involve the following:

• Dalinar dies, either during the contest or before. Before he dies, he has a deep conversation with Kaladin, or something of that manner, that sets Kaladin on the path to say the 5th oath, maybe pick up Honour (maybe even Odium as well? I feel less set on him taking Odium) and becoming the shard of Duty, or Protection
  • I feel better about Dalinar dying than Kaladin. This could just be because I haven't read the books recently and I remember less of Dalinar and his arc, but I feel like a meaningful death would suit him more than Kaladin, since Kaladin has spent so much time dealing with survivor's guilt and Dalinar was more about reconciling himself with his past
  • I also just really don't want anything bad to happen to Kaladin, and if he becomes a Shard he can be semi-immortal for a time
     
• Ba-Ado-Mishram and Shallan have a meet-up of some kind, and this is an integral part of ending the Desolation
  • Shallan feels responsible for causing the Desolation (because she killed her mother) (who is definitely Chanarach)
  • I figure Ba-Ado-Mishram can probably overpower Taravang-ium, who is new and inexperienced, taking control of the Singers
  • Shallan probably convinces her to do this somehow. Both are fairly identity/connection focussed characters, so she probably empathises with her somehow
     
• I would like to see the Heralds come back somehow (I know they are around but like, being lucid and not insane would be cool). Specifically, I'd like to see Ishar as the Coalition's Champion.
  • This specific scenario is unlikely, I'll admit. 
  • However, I do believe Ishar will prove to be very important. Maybe a 5th ideal being sworn near him gives him a few minutes of clarity to expose some important truths? Maybe the Windrunners get a stream of squires to swear the first oath, one after the other, and the resulting oath-train lets him reforge the Oathpact? idk

Might be back later to update this.

[The Stick]

I can see a single massive issue with the Shinovar campaign. Szeth is insane and on his fourth ideal crusade. He despises the false Shin leaders for making him Truthless and making him kill. Ishar straight up murdered Szeth's father. While we know Ishar is not all that reliable, I think he is bending the truth. Even if Szeth's father did beg for death, I hardly think Szeth sees it that way. So Kaladin and Szeth are crusading through Shinovar with an insane Skybreaker wielding unsheathed Nightblood and seeking out a man who killed the father of the afformentioned insane Skybreaker with unsheathed Nightblood which can most definitely kill him. How do we know Szeth won't just murder Ishar and commit mass genocide? This means Ishar may never be able to reforge the Oathpact and completely mess up the protagonists to set up the second arc.

[alder24]

4 hours ago, The Stick said:

I can see a single massive issue with the Shinovar campaign. Szeth is insane and on his fourth ideal crusade. He despises the false Shin leaders for making him Truthless and making him kill. Ishar straight up murdered Szeth's father. While we know Ishar is not all that reliable, I think he is bending the truth. Even if Szeth's father did beg for death, I hardly think Szeth sees it that way. So Kaladin and Szeth are crusading through Shinovar with an insane Skybreaker wielding unsheathed Nightblood and seeking out a man who killed the father of the afformentioned insane Skybreaker with unsheathed Nightblood which can most definitely kill him. How do we know Szeth won't just murder Ishar and commit mass genocide? This means Ishar may never be able to reforge the Oathpact and completely mess up the protagonists to set up the second arc.

Szeth can't kill Ishar without breaking his 3th Ideal and killing his spren, losing the ability to draw in Stormlight and feed Nightblood with it. And Ishar is a really good fighter, better than Szeth I think, now he will know what Nightblood can do and will find a way to avoid him. Bondsmith unbounded is per WoB more dangerous than Nightblood. That's why it's good Kaladin is going with him, as he would be able to keep Szeth on a morally good path. But you also raised a good point. There would be a lot of internal conflicts for Szeth, and external conflicts with Kaladin. Szeth will want to kill corrupted leaders of Shinovar, while Kaladin will want to prevent this. We know that ancient Windrunners and Skybreakers were already heavily conflicted with each other, and I think Szeth and Kal together will be in conflict too. But I also think Kaladin would play more or less a therapist role for Szeth, helping him overcome his madness and depression. 

 

Now I just thought about something else, when it comes to healing Heralds. Do you think BAM can form a bond with them and restore their minds?

[The Stick]

It depends. My personal opinion is no due to the interaction we see between Mistborn Spoilers

Spoiler

The mists and hemalurgists. Mists avoid hemalurgists like the plague.

I think that Cognitive Shadows drenched in Honor's power would naturally reject an Unmade, a being of Odium's Investiture.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, The Stick said:

It depends. My personal opinion is no due to the interaction we see between Mistborn Spoilers

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The mists and hemalurgists. Mists avoid hemalurgists like the plague.

I think that Cognitive Shadows drenched in Honor's power would naturally reject an Unmade, a being of Odium's Investiture.

Good point, but here it is a willing decision of both spren and Heralds, just like, Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

a spren deciding to bond a spiked person, it might drive spren back, but some would be willing to bond that person anyway:

Spoiler

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So I could be wrong, but a Hemalurgic spike, when you use it and become a savant it does damage to your Spiritweb, right?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes Hemalurgy always hurts you.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So would it also affect your probability of becoming an Elantrian?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah it would affect your ability to become anything else, yes.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay, so would it be a positive effect, negative effect...? Because I was like, it gives you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It does give you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So it's easier for Investiture to get in. Does it make it easier for other Investitures to get in?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It would make it... yes. It's going to drive spren away. So what it's really going to make easier for, there, is spren and Investiture that doesn't care.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay, so Investiture doesn't care but spren do.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay cool.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Alright, so it could be a really bad thing, is what I'm trying to say to you.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Yeah that's cool. I just want to know more about gold too. Gold Allomancy too. Because Miles was doing some funky stuff.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Miles was doing some funky stuff.

Dark Talent release party (Sept. 6, 2016)

 

 

[Walter The Moral]

On 5/31/2023 at 7:26 AM, therunner said:

We did not see a persons broken body be healed by a Shard, and yet it is not impossible.

Didn't Harmony heal Spook from his burns at the end of HoA?

[Jace The Firesworn he/him]

2 hours ago, Walter The Moral said:

Didn't Harmony heal Spook from his burns at the end of HoA?

I'm pretty sure he did

I think that a Shard could heal ALMOST anything. I doubt they could heal a injury caused by Nightblood. Although, if someone get's nicked by Nightblood that might kill them. Didn't that man Szeth killed at the beginning of his training as a Skybreaker, just turn to smoke?

[therunner he/him]

7 hours ago, Walter The Moral said:

Didn't Harmony heal Spook from his burns at the end of HoA?

Ah, true, I forgot about that
Thanks!

5 hours ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

I think that a Shard could heal ALMOST anything. I doubt they could heal a injury caused by Nightblood. Although, if someone get's nicked by Nightblood that might kill them. Didn't that man Szeth killed at the beginning of his training as a Skybreaker, just turn to smoke?

I think Shard can heal anything as long as the person has not left for Beyond, and even then it is a voluntary choice.
After all, we see Sazed offering to bring back Vin and Elend, but they refused.

[Jace The Firesworn he/him]

Random thought:

What do you guys think about someone bonding Sja-Anat? Because I think that likely

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

Quote

You know that Kaladin doesn't have to play a major role in the back 5 books? He can be just a background character, when new characters like Lift and other flashback characters, Oroden, Adin, or Shallan's kids will become a new focus. Just like Kelsier, Marsh and Sazed weren't major PoV in Mistborn era 2. Kaladin can become a mental health healer, advocate for unification of Singers and humans, rediscover his ties to the crown and Aesudan, discover what's up with the "son of Tanavest" title, "pick up the fallen title, the tower, the crown, and the spear", Ascend to Honor or some less important duties like training new generation of Windrunners etc. I think he can stick around for longer. But he can die as you said, it's a real possibility.

Kaladin has ties to the crown?

On 06/06/2023 at 8:20 AM, therunner said:

Ah, true, I forgot about that
Thanks!

I think Shard can heal anything as long as the person has not left for Beyond, and even then it is a voluntary choice.
After all, we see Sazed offering to bring back Vin and Elend, but they refused.

. The bodies get healed, yes, and we see Savantism reversed and Spook given Mistborn abilities, so both the Physical and Spritual Aspects can be healed or altered. I don't think the Cognitive Aspect can be healed nearly as eaily though, or at all. We see Shards like Ruin need your soul to have cracks in it (Through mental illness or Hemalurgy) to get in and control someone, and given where Brandon is going with the theme of Mental Health in the Cosmere, making it something fixable just doesn't make sense narratively.

That said, what's happened to the Heralds is supernatural and not true mental illness as we understand it, so they could be theoretically healed. Here's a little mini-theory which could explain how they could get healed: the Heralds (at least Kalak and Jezrien) seem to not have undergone the supernatural insanity as of when they abandon the Oathpact at Aharietiam. We know Honor doesn't die until soon before the Recreance, as his raving before his death is what reveals to the KsR that Surgebinding destroyed Ashyn, which is what makes them abandon their oaths as a precaution. The next time we see the Heralds after that, they're insane. What is Honors Splintering is what caused their supernatural insanity? That could be why when Honor is invoked, such as a Radiant swearing an Oath, their insanity is temporarily lifted. If someone were to reassemble and Ascend to Honor, they may return to lucidity. So, while regular mental illnesses couldn't be healed by Shards, the Heralds' insanity's status as 'supernatural' may make this the exception to the rule. This would explain why Odium doesn't heal the Fused.

That's aside, returning someone to life doesn't seem to necessarily have to be a voluntary choice. I could totally see a Shard forcing someone who died back into their body, though Sazed doesn't do this because he respects Vin and Elend's choice, and Endowment gives people the choice to Return because what's the point of forcing someone to Return when they could just as well refuse to do what they Returned for and maybe kill themselves at the first opportunity. The amnesia let's them get around that, but it seems like an unethical thing to do, something that Endowment may make Endowment choose not to go down that path. Theres enough evidence that you could argue consent is necessary, but I just don't believe that's the case.

For other things, I don't think either Kaladin or Syl will die, mostly because Kaladin's entire arc started with him choosing to live on despite his suicidal thoughts, depression, and survivors guilt. Syl is tangential, but I don't think she will die because of the impact that woukd have on Kaladin.

I don't think Dalinar will die either, though this ones more of a gut feeling than anything evidence based. The Stormfather's first bonded Radiant in a long time, a budding Bondsmith, and currently Honor's Vessel (????), I just don't think he will die, at least unless he gets defeated in the contest through trickery. Todium would totally use someone Dalinar loves as a Champion, which would force Dalinar to surrender, but I don't think he'll die unless he specifically chooses to do so.

Szeth could totally die, though that begs the question of what will happen to Nightblood.

I also think BAM will be found, possibly by Shallan, although I doubt BAM'll support anyone but Odium, given she probably hates the Radiants for trapping her for millenia.

1 hour ago, Jace The Firesworn said:

Random thought:

What do you guys think about someone bonding Sja-Anat? Because I think that likely

I feel like that could happen, but it's very unlikely. It does open the up question of what an Unmade Bond does to a person.

[alder24]

39 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Kaladin has ties to the crown?

Yes

Spoiler

Stormlightning

Is Kaladin related to Aesudan?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it's not a close relation. A very complex system of things, but yes.

Stormlightning

I was just wondering why he knew her...the melody she was humming.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, he did. That is not because they're related.

Stormlightning

So it's something else?

Brandon Sanderson

It's something else. I thought that was a sideways question about Kaladin's mom.

Stormlightning

It kinda was, I thought maybe she hummed that and so that's why he recognized it.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

43 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I don't think Dalinar will die either, though this ones more of a gut feeling than anything evidence based. The Stormfather's first bonded Radiant in a long time, a budding Bondsmith, and currently Honor's Vessel (????), I just don't think he will die, at least unless he gets defeated in the contest through trickery. Todium would totally use someone Dalinar loves as a Champion, which would force Dalinar to surrender, but I don't think he'll die unless he specifically chooses to do so.

If he dies during a Contest he would become a Fused. He can die and live.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes

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Stormlightning

Is Kaladin related to Aesudan?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it's not a close relation. A very complex system of things, but yes.

Stormlightning

I was just wondering why he knew her...the melody she was humming.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, he did. That is not because they're related.

Stormlightning

So it's something else?

Brandon Sanderson

It's something else. I thought that was a sideways question about Kaladin's mom.

Stormlightning

It kinda was, I thought maybe she hummed that and so that's why he recognized it.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

That's some good luck right there, unintentionally getting a potentially important detail from an unrelated question

I never knew that Kaladin was related to Aesudan.

Quote

If he dies during a Contest he would become a Fused. He can die and live.

Oh right, I forgot about that. The signs do point to Todium cornering Dalinar into surrendering or dying, but I still don't feel like that'll happen for some reason. It's just a hunch though, most likely he will actually die (and become a Fused)

Edit: What would happen to Dalinar's Nahel bond if he becomes a Fused?

Edited June 13, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[alder24]

18 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Edit: What would happen to Dalinar's Nahel bond if he becomes a Fused?

I think  it would get brutally broken, harming Stormfather, as Dalinar's soul would get infused with Odium's investiture, pushing out the bond. But also it's more likely that if Dalinar dies, the bond would be released in the moment of his death, with no harm done to Stormfather.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

I think  it would get brutally broken, harming Stormfather, as Dalinar's soul would get infused with Odium's investiture, pushing out the bond. But also it's more likely that if Dalinar dies, the bond would be released in the moment of his death, with no harm done to Stormfather.

If he chooses to surrender instead of losing the fight and actually dying, what then? And would Odium's Investiture being in him necessarily eject the bond?

[alder24]

Just now, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

If he chooses to surrender instead of losing the fight and actually dying, what then? And would Odium's Investiture being in him necessarily eject the bond?

If he's alive I think the first option will happen and SF will get hurt. If dead, then no problem, just like every Radiant death doesn't kill their spren. I think this would happen because of the way CS creation works - their soul gets infused with investiture, expanded, and in some cases just copied. This might cause separation of Radiant's soul and his spren soul, push them apart (investiture resist investiture) and fill cracks in Radiant's soul with Odium's investiture instead of spren. But I don’t think there is any concrete proof for this, we just don’t know, and those are just my speculations because I want Stormfather dead. 

[Argenti he/him]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

 because I want Stormfather dead. 

Why? He's abrasive, but that shouldn't mean death.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

4 hours ago, Argenti said:

Why? He's abrasive, but that shouldn't mean death.

I'm pretty sure he's just joking

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Argenti said:

Why? He's abrasive, but that shouldn't mean death.

4 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I'm pretty sure he's just joking

No, I think this will happen, Death Rattles are talking about it. Stormfather will be deadeye, Highstorms stop working, only endless weeping with no Stormlight. This will cause flooding across Roshar and destroy Kharbrant, wounding Odium for breaking his word to Taravangian. I wrote about is somewhere.

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

35 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, I think this will happen, Death Rattles are talking about it. Stormfather will be deadeye, Highstorms stop working, only endless weeping with no Stormlight. This will cause flooding across Roshar and destroy Kharbrant, wounding Odium for breaking his word to Taravangian. I wrote about is somewhere.

 

O h

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

No, I think this will happen, Death Rattles are talking about it. Stormfather will be deadeye, Highstorms stop working, only endless weeping with no Stormlight. This will cause flooding across Roshar and destroy Kharbrant, wounding Odium for breaking his word to Taravangian. I wrote about is somewhere.

 

Well, now I'm up for it