Forged Savantism

[Trusk'our he/him]

I'm pretty sure I've done a thread before on using Forgery to remove Savantism. 

However, what if someone tried to use Forgery to grant Savantism?

Let's have a fun little story to go with this idea; There is a Tineye that works for the Ghostbloods named Jake. Jake, somewhat naturally, doesn't want to permanently suffer the ill effects of Savantism, but knows that with it's power he could accomplish a lot more for his organization. Shai is his friend and creates a Soulstamp for Jake to turn him temporarily into a Savant so that he can get the benefits of it when he needs it and so that he can remove the downsides when he is done with using it.

Does this sound like a plausible thing to do?

[Quantus he/him]

I would say if Hemalurgy cant steal it, Forgery cant replicate it.

 

Quote

 

CealdishOrbLender

Can being an Allomantic Savant be transferred through Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

A Savant cannot be, good question. No one's asked me that before.

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

 

 

[alder24]

52 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm pretty sure I've done a thread before on using Forgery to remove Savantism. 

However, what if someone tried to use Forgery to grant Savantism?

Let's have a fun little story to go with this idea; There is a Tineye that works for the Ghostbloods named Jake. Jake, somewhat naturally, doesn't want to permanently suffer the ill effects of Savantism, but knows that with it's power he could accomplish a lot more for his organization. Shai is his friend and creates a Soulstamp for Jake to turn him temporarily into a Savant so that he can get the benefits of it when he needs it and so that he can remove the downsides when he is done with using it.

Does this sound like a plausible thing to do?

I say if you give enough investiture to pass through that fake soul to make it into a savant, it will work, but that's a lot of investiture. But it's likely as Quantus said.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

I would say if Hemalurgy cant steal it, Forgery cant replicate it.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Ah well, the more you know 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

On 11/05/2023 at 5:39 PM, Quantus said:

I would say if Hemalurgy cant steal it, Forgery cant replicate it

Hemalurgy cant steal being a a good martial artist, or a painter, or change the composition of something, but Forgery can. I think it could entirely be possible to create a Stamp that could give you Savantism by overlaying your soul with an expanded version. It might take a lot of Investiture (but not as much as would have needed to pass through your soul to expand it, since you're not expanding your actual soul, just creating a pre-expanded one and putting it on top of yours) though, but not unmanageable amounts. Forgery works by making your soul think it did something in the past; why not make it think you burned a lot of metal in said past? It wouldn't be that implausible, given that you don't have to make much of an effort yourself other than having swallowed metal every so often.

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:42 PM, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Hemalurgy cant steal being a a good martial artist, or a painter, or change the composition of something, but Forgery can.

Actually, I'm not totally convinced of that; Hemalurgic duralumin might be able to do it, since it steals Connection, and Connection seems to be tied to one's skill rather than the Cognitive Aspect, as Feruchemical copper cannot transfer muscle memory.

So a Hemalurgist with the right intent and level of skill may be able to steal other's skills, though not their actual knowledge (as that is tied to their Cognitive Aspect).

[Leuthie]

How to best explain this?

Using a power shapes the soul. Savantism is the result of extreme shaping. You can't copy this shaping and pass it on to a different soul. Savantism isn't a piece of Spirit Web you can break off; it's the Spirit Web itself. So no hemalurgy.

But you can probably forge it.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

On 5/11/2023 at 0:18 PM, Trusk'our said:

I'm pretty sure I've done a thread before on using Forgery to remove Savantism. 

However, what if someone tried to use Forgery to grant Savantism?

Let's have a fun little story to go with this idea; There is a Tineye that works for the Ghostbloods named Jake. Jake, somewhat naturally, doesn't want to permanently suffer the ill effects of Savantism, but knows that with it's power he could accomplish a lot more for his organization. Shai is his friend and creates a Soulstamp for Jake to turn him temporarily into a Savant so that he can get the benefits of it when he needs it and so that he can remove the downsides when he is done with using it.

Does this sound like a plausible thing to do?

 

On 5/11/2023 at 1:14 PM, alder24 said:

I say if you give enough investiture to pass through that fake soul to make it into a savant, it will work, but that's a lot of investiture. But it's likely as Quantus said.

I would think with a stamp that re-writes that Jake had burned tin for years, it would be, at the very least, possible. And, if you had some liquid investiture laying around to dip that stamp into..all the better. (which I think is what @alder24 was getting at?)

Edited May 25, 2023 by JohnnyKaizen

[alder24]

1 minute ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

I would think with a stamp that re-writes that Jake had burned tin for years, it would be, at the very least, possible. And, if you had some liquid investiture laying around to dip that stamp into..all the better. (which I think is what @alder24 was getting at?)

Kind of, If I remember correctly. You need to rewrite your soul to "I've been burning metal for years it warped my soul", and you need to provide enough investiture, not just the amount needed for a soul, not just for expanded savant soul, but you need comparable amounts of investiture to all those years of burning metal, during which investiture was passing through your soul. You need to bath your soul with years worth of investiture during stamping. 

But at that point how would your real soul be affected? Would your real soul be turned into a Savant soul as well? Or at least partially as most of the damage was done to the fake soul, but some investiture was affecting your soul as well.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

20 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Kind of, If I remember correctly. You need to rewrite your soul to "I've been burning metal for years it warped my soul", and you need to provide enough investiture, not just the amount needed for a soul, not just for expanded savant soul, but you need comparable amounts of investiture to all those years of burning metal, during which investiture was passing through your soul. You need to bath your soul with years worth of investiture during stamping. 

But at that point how would your real soul be affected? Would your real soul be turned into a Savant soul as well? Or at least partially as most of the damage was done to the fake soul, but some investiture was affecting your soul as well.

Yeaaaaaah...that gets real tricky real fast, doesn't it?

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Kind of, If I remember correctly. You need to rewrite your soul to "I've been burning metal for years it warped my soul", and you need to provide enough investiture, not just the amount needed for a soul, not just for expanded savant soul, but you need comparable amounts of investiture to all those years of burning metal, during which investiture was passing through your soul. You need to bath your soul with years worth of investiture during stamping. 

But at that point how would your real soul be affected? Would your real soul be turned into a Savant soul as well? Or at least partially as most of the damage was done to the fake soul, but some investiture was affecting your soul as well.

Not years, really. Spook manages it in just a single year. And you wouldn't need that much Investiture, otherwise, you're actually becoming a Savant. Stamping yourself into becoming a Savant would just create a fake, overlay soul on top of the original. You might need more Investiture than what the Stamp itself can provide, but that would be to build the expanded soul, and leagues away from the actual amount of Investiture needed to actually become a Savant, as you're suggesting.

Why do you think you'd need the actual amount of Investiture needed to become a Savant? You're not pouring all of that into your actual soul so it starts stretching and becoming Savantlike, you're just building a fake one on top that's just stretched from the get-go. Beyond the Investiture needed for actually constructing the soul, it doesn't require much more.

[Leuthie]

12 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Not years, really. Spook manages it in just a single year. And you wouldn't need that much Investiture, otherwise, you're actually becoming a Savant. Stamping yourself into becoming a Savant would just create a fake, overlay soul on top of the original. You might need more Investiture than what the Stamp itself can provide, but that would be to build the expanded soul, and leagues away from the actual amount of Investiture needed to actually become a Savant, as you're suggesting.

Why do you think you'd need the actual amount of Investiture needed to become a Savant? You're not pouring all of that into your actual soul so it starts stretching and becoming Savantlike, you're just building a fake one on top that's just stretched from the get-go. Beyond the Investiture needed for actually constructing the soul, it doesn't require much more.

You would need the knowledge of what becoming a Savant does to the Spirit Web. You wouldn't need equivalent Investiture. I think getting the knowledge required is probably harder than collecting the required amount of Investiture would have been.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

3 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

You would need the knowledge of what becoming a Savant does to the Spirit Web. You wouldn't need equivalent Investiture. I think getting the knowledge required is probably harder than collecting the required amount of Investiture would have been.

Not necessarily. You're not hand-crafting the expanded soul. All you need to do is tweak how many metals you burned, and the resulting stretched soul should form accordingly.