How to Turn Into a Kandra (again)

[Trusk'our he/him]

I actually made a post a while ago about this very thing, and I'm pretty sure the idea is similar to what I had before, though now I have more information and have had time to consider things better. I also made a post recently about how Kandra Blessings were made- Kandra Blessings, Identity, and Commands- and that got me thinking on this matter again.

Okay, based on my recent post about Kandra Blessings, I think that it's possible to spike out a being's "self" enough to change another being into taking on characteristics of the donor creature. I hypothesize that this is what was done with Chimera (canines were donors for humans, making the humans more like the canines) and potentially the Kandra (human donors used with correct Intent plus potentially a specialized Command on Mistwraiths, making those Mistwraiths take on some human characteristics).

But, what happens if you use a Mistwraith as a donor and a human as the recipient for a Hemalurgic spike? 

I hypothesize that, with the proper knowledge, skill, and with the correct Intent, you could take some aspects of a Mistwraith and staple them onto a human.

I don't know that you would turn them into an actual Kandra, but more like a "cousin" species; perhaps the human would gain some shape-shifting abilities, but not to the extent that a Kandra would have them and maybe they'd live a few hundred years longer than normal. 

As an upside, they might not have the Kandra's level of susceptibility to being controlled or the same need for Blessings to retain sapience. It also would be interesting to see if the new being could hold Kandra Blessings without being turned into a monstrous being due to their new shape shifting nature.

This is speculative, of course, but we do know that it is possible to spike a Singer's ability to grow a Gemheart. Why not spike a Mistwraith's ability to change its shape?

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11387

Snipexe

Could you spike the ability to grow a gemheart out of a singer?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I think you could. Yeah.

This older quote (from 2015) says that you couldn't spike a Listener's Forms, but I the quote above (from 2018) implies that you could take the abilities Listeners use to achieve those forms. As such, I believe that the same could be done with Mistwraiths.

Quote

/r/books AMA 2015 - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

xadcirk

Can Hemelurgic Spikes be used to steal Listener forms?

Brandon Sanderson

Replicate them, perhaps. Stealing them would be like stealing the fact that someone is Asian--not really what Hemalurgy does.

So, what are your guy's thoughts (especially you, @Tamriel Wolfsbaine; I know you really like Kandra related stuff )? Do you think that this would be achievable?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

49 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I actually made a post a while ago about this very thing, and I'm pretty sure the idea is similar to what I had before, though now I have more information and have had time to consider things better. I also made a post recently about how Kandra Blessings were made- Kandra Blessings, Identity, and Commands- and that got me thinking on this matter again.

Okay, based on my recent post about Kandra Blessings, I think that it's possible to spike out a being's "self" enough to change another being into taking on characteristics of the donor creature. I hypothesize that this is what was done with Chimera (canines were donors for humans, making the humans more like the canines) and potentially the Kandra (human donors used with correct Intent plus potentially a specialized Command on Mistwraiths, making those Mistwraiths take on some human characteristics).

But, what happens if you use a Mistwraith as a donor and a human as the recipient for a Hemalurgic spike? 

I hypothesize that, with the proper knowledge, skill, and with the correct Intent, you could take some aspects of a Mistwraith and staple them onto a human.

I don't know that you would turn them into an actual Kandra, but more like a "cousin" species; perhaps the human would gain some shape-shifting abilities, but not to the extent that a Kandra would have them and maybe they'd live a few hundred years longer than normal. 

As an upside, they might not have the Kandra's level of susceptibility to being controlled or the same need for Blessings to retain sapience. It also would be interesting to see if the new being could hold Kandra Blessings without being turned into a monstrous being due to their new shape shifting nature.

This is speculative, of course, but we do know that it is possible to spike a Singer's ability to grow a Gemheart. Why not spike a Mistwraith's ability to change its shape?

This older quote (from 2015) says that you couldn't spike a Listener's Forms, but I the quote above (from 2018) implies that you could take the abilities Listeners use to achieve those forms. As such, I believe that the same could be done with Mistwraiths.

So, what are your guy's thoughts (especially you, @Tamriel Wolfsbaine; I know you really like Kandra related stuff )? Do you think that this would be achievable?

I think it would do something.  I don't know that I would volunteer to be tested on for that one personally, however if it does work I think it would allow some power spike without the moral issues of killing a human. 

How would a mistwraith react to being spiked?  Would it kill it or would it walk around missing a part of itself forever after that?  More like ripping a worm in half or taking off a lizards tail and it will grow back?  

Knowing that kandra can piece together parts of different bodies is awesome and I would totally get in line to be able to have the sense of smell of a dog... or those dope little hairs that let spiders feel movement in the air and react in real time... or be able to see all of the colors that a mantis shrimp sees. 

So many possibilities and things I would be trying to steal and use. What if you had all of these sensory organs and ended up with A tin somehow? The world would be so so much different. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

How would a mistwraith react to being spiked?  Would it kill it or would it walk around missing a part of itself forever after that?  More like ripping a worm in half or taking off a lizards tail and it will grow back?  

Well, Kandra can regenerate from Shardblades, so a Mistwraith probably could recover from being spiked eventually.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/324/#e9262

greaterbookwyrm

What happens when you cut a kandra with a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

So a kandra is going to react basically the same way, in that the Shardblade's going to be hitting at the soul and severing it and things like that. They are not immune to Shardblades. But because they have mutable shapes, there will be a little bit of weirdness involved in that. You'll get to see that happen eventually.

 

3 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think it would do something.  I don't know that I would volunteer to be tested on for that one personally, however if it does work I think it would allow some power spike without the moral issues of killing a human. 

Neither would I. I'd want to test it out first, perhaps on animals. If your dog starts morphing into different shapes, there you go, test successful 

3 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Knowing that kandra can piece together parts of different bodies is awesome and I would totally get in line to be able to have the sense of smell of a dog... or those dope little hairs that let spiders feel movement in the air and react in real time... or be able to see all of the colors that a mantis shrimp sees. 

Oh yeah, spiders' ability to sense via their hairs is astounding- it comes to the limits of what is physically achievable in terms of sensitivity.

3 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

So many possibilities and things I would be trying to steal and use. What if you had all of these sensory organs and ended up with A tin somehow? The world would be so so much different. 

In terms of animal abilities, I'd take enhanced senses, I think. Kandra basically have F-tin in their power portfolio, and in some ways they are superior since they can get more senses than a human could by molding their body.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

13 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Well, Kandra can regenerate from Shardblades, so a Mistwraith probably could recover from being spiked eventually.

 

Neither would I. I'd want to test it out first, perhaps on animals. If your dog starts morphing into different shapes, there you go, test successful 

Oh yeah, spiders' ability to sense via their hairs is astounding, it comes to the limits of what is physically achievable in terms of sensitivity.

In terms of animal abilities, I'd take enhanced senses, I think. Kandra basically have F-tin in their power portfolio, and in some ways they are superior since they can get more senses than a human could by molding their body.

My #1 must pick for a kandra in the MAG is the chimera stunt and stealing a dog's sense of smell.  

All sensory upgrades are so huge.  It plays a large role in why I like Nalthis and Scadrial so much.  The benefits from the heightenings and the bonuses from all of the metallic arts sensory options are just epic.  

Being able to stack those into a kandra and add on the ability to process it all with other animals sensory additions is bananas.  

[Scars of Hathsin he/him]

Are there Mistwraiths in Era 2, and if so why don't we see them? or, why are they not talked about?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

22 minutes ago, Scars of Hathsin said:

Are there Mistwraiths in Era 2, and if so why don't we see them? or, why are they not talked about?

I believe there are.  They have been driven to the far sides of the roughs.  Still a spooky story to tell the kids at night but the population is growing and people are expanding outwards.  

[Trusk'our he/him]

19 minutes ago, Scars of Hathsin said:

Are there Mistwraiths in Era 2, and if so why don't we see them? or, why are they not talked about?

Don't know, to be honest.

It doesn't seem like Sazed to simply remove them; after all, he decided to keep the Koloss and Kandra around because they were unique.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15859

Questioner

My favorite god, Sazed/Harmony, in my recent reread I got a bit angry at him because he didn’t let kandra be able to reproduce, but he let the koloss be able to do it. And I’m wondering if there’s a way he could have allowed that, but he chose not to? And also if there’s a way that it could happen in the future, so that two of my favorite people could have a baby?

Brandon Sanderson

There are a couple things that he was facing, and let me walk you through his philosophy on this, which you are allowed to disagree with. I want, for every character I write, there to be things they do that you disagree with, because otherwise I’m writing all characters to be the same person, if that makes sense.

The kandra have immortality and are able to perpetuate their culture by being immortal for as long as the individuals live. The koloss don’t have that, meaning that if he didn’t make koloss able to breed true, the entire people vanish in one generation and all culture associated with them. And so because of that, he took the extra effort to change the koloss to allow for this sort of thing. But he did it in such a way that they would not have to have hemalurgic spikes, because the idea of making new hemalurgic spikes is extremely distasteful to Harmony. Reusing old ones is a thing he was willing to allow, but new ones he didn’t.

Could he have changed the kandra to be similar? Well, the answer is kind of a fairly... yes, but they would no longer have been the kandra, they would have been rolled back to being what they were before the Lord Ruler. And so they basically would stop being what they are that makes them unique as a culture. And he decided not to do that.

You can disagree with that, and I think there are some pretty valid arguments against the choice he made, but that is the choice he made.

Is there a way going forward? Yes, this is theoretically possible.

So Mistwraiths are probably out there on Scadrial somewhere.

[Scars of Hathsin he/him]

Do the Southern Scadrians encounter them as well, or are they just from the north of Scadrial?

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Okay, based on my recent post about Kandra Blessings, I think that it's possible to spike out a being's "self" enough to change another being into taking on characteristics of the donor creature. I hypothesize that this is what was done with Chimera (canines were donors for humans, making the humans more like the canines) and potentially the Kandra (human donors used with correct Intent plus potentially a specialized Command on Mistwraiths, making those Mistwraiths take on some human characteristics).

I've read the previous topic, and I agree that it might be that Kandra spikes contain more "humanity" in them, but I don't think you're stealing the personality of the donor and making the Kandra into that person in some limited way. Mistwraiths are described as people with cognitive blockade and Blessings allow them to overcome that blockade. I think that each Mistwraith already has a unique personality (and identity) and Blessing allows them to "reach" that cognitively.

Spoiler

NinjaMeTimbers

How intelligent is a mistwraith? Could you raise and train mistwraiths like dogs or horses, controlling what forms they take by the bones you give them? Would you be able to train yourself a horsewraith steed by giving it only the bones of a horse?

Brandon Sanderson

This is feasible. One thing to keep in mind is that mistwraiths are people who have a blockage between the Physical and the Cognitive Realm, messing with their ability to think. Think of them as mentally-stunted people. There's enough there to train, but then you have to dig into the ethics of it...

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

 

14 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

But, what happens if you use a Mistwraith as a donor and a human as the recipient for a Hemalurgic spike? 

I hypothesize that, with the proper knowledge, skill, and with the correct Intent, you could take some aspects of a Mistwraith and staple them onto a human.

I don't know that you would turn them into an actual Kandra, but more like a "cousin" species; perhaps the human would gain some shape-shifting abilities, but not to the extent that a Kandra would have them and maybe they'd live a few hundred years longer than normal. 

As an upside, they might not have the Kandra's level of susceptibility to being controlled or the same need for Blessings to retain sapience. It also would be interesting to see if the new being could hold Kandra Blessings without being turned into a monstrous being due to their new shape shifting nature.

This is speculative, of course, but we do know that it is possible to spike a Singer's ability to grow a Gemheart. Why not spike a Mistwraith's ability to change its shape?

Yup, I think this is possible. Weird and possible. But the question is - can you grant yourself that spike and remain sentient? Or will you turn into a weird abomination, half human, half mistwraith, with cognitive blockage, something much closer to mindless chimaras than kandra. I think that might be the most likely scenario. 

13 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Well, Kandra can regenerate from Shardblades, so a Mistwraith probably could recover from being spiked eventually.

No, Kandra can't regenerate a Shardblade cut. They can however shift and grow their body in a way to mitigate the damage done by it. But you're stealing mistwraith's ability to change shape, if he survives, he will be forever unable to change shape, but changing shapes and consuming bodies is the way mistwraiths are feeding themself, so even if he survives, he will starve to death eventually. But I doubt he would survive that spike.

13 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Oh yeah, spiders' ability to sense via their hairs is astounding- it comes to the limits of what is physically achievable in terms of sensitivity.

I'm noping out of here.

11 hours ago, Scars of Hathsin said:

Are there Mistwraiths in Era 2, and if so why don't we see them? or, why are they not talked about?

There likely are, but I don't remember them being mentioned in books.

Spoiler

rxience (paraphrased)

Would a single spike be sufficient to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that could happen.

rxience (paraphrased)

Did that happen in the past?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. Who are you thinking about?

rxience (paraphrased)

Kelsier of course!

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, he is somehow in the Physical Realm. And he does look like himself, doesn't he?

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

 

11 hours ago, Scars of Hathsin said:

Do the Southern Scadrians encounter them as well, or are they just from the north of Scadrial?

Originally, Mistwraiths were made by Rashek from Terris Feruchemists, who lived in Terris, very close to the Well of Ascension. The Southern Scadrians were people moved by Rashek to preserve their genes in case he messed up genetics of people up north, and they were divided of Feruchemist genes (mostly, because everybody on Scadrial was made by Preservation and Ruin, everybody has very weak seed of metalic arts in them), therefore they didn't originate from Terrisan. That makes me think that Mistwraiths lived only in the Final Empire territory, not in the south. But after Catacendre Sazed might change something and move some of them south (but I doubt this).

[Trusk'our he/him]

54 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yup, I think this is possible. Weird and possible. But the question is - can you grant yourself that spike and remain sentient? Or will you turn into a weird abomination, half human, half mistwraith, with cognitive blockage, something much closer to mindless chimaras than kandra. I think that might be the most likely scenario. 

I suppose that would be where some weirdness would come in. If you're more human than Kandra with a single Mistrwraith spike, I'd hazard to guess that you'd retain most in not all your sapience since your spike would provide at least some ability to pierce the blockage between the physical and the cognitive.

If you're more Kandra than human, I'd guess you could give yourself a Kandra Blessing to overcome the mental blockage, though you'd likely end up with the same weakness as other Kandra- having your Spiritweb abnormally susceptible to being controlled by others- more so even, since you may end up needing three spikes rather than two. There could be some ways to mitigate that weakness that have been discussed elsewhere that might work though.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

No, Kandra can't regenerate a Shardblade cut. They can however shift and grow their body in a way to mitigate the damage done by it. But you're stealing mistwraith's ability to change shape, if he survives, he will be forever unable to change shape, but changing shapes and consuming bodies is the way mistwraiths are feeding themself, so even if he survives, he will starve to death eventually. But I doubt he would survive that spike.

Hmm, okay so maybe a Mistwraith wouldn't survive the spiking. Don't know how I assumed they would be able to regrow their shape shifting without their shape shifting . That does bring some problems into the whole deal, what with them actually being people and whatnot.

Actually, now I'm wondering, would it be even better if you spiked a Kandra than a Mistwraith? A Kandra donor (who was actually willing) you could give a F-gold providing spike, let them store some health, then spike them and get their ability to change shape. They then repair their Spiritweb after, leaving them okay.

Also, I'm wondering if a Kandra donor would be better for the cognitive abilities that you're seeking, since they are already closer to what you want to become than a Mistwraith. I don't know if their spikes actually change them physiologically, if just a little, or if it's all just a magical piercing between the blockage effecting their mind, but if it is an actual change made by altering their Spiritweb, that should be able to be taken by Hemalurgy.

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I suppose that would be where some weirdness would come in. If you're more human than Kandra with a single Mistrwraith spike, I'd hazard to guess that you'd retain most in not all your sapience since your spike would provide at least some ability to pierce the blockage between the physical and the cognitive.

If you're more Kandra than human, I'd guess you could give yourself a Kandra Blessing to overcome the mental blockage, though you'd likely end up with the same weakness as other Kandra- having your Spiritweb abnormally susceptible to being controlled by others- more so even, since you may end up needing three spikes rather than two. There could be some ways to mitigate that weakness that have been discussed elsewhere that might work though.

I think when speaking Mistwraith you steal some of his cognitive blockage and give it to yourself. But I also think that you're not turning into Kandra, you are making a completely new hemalurgic construct, that just resembles kandra, but very likely has mental blockade that your unaided brain can't piece that well. And because you're a new construct, Kandra Blessings won't work on you like they're working on Kandra. You might need to blindly create a totally new type of spike that will work with this new construct and help them to overcome this new limitation. 

8 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Actually, now I'm wondering, would it be even better if you spiked a Kandra than a Mistwraith? A Kandra donor (who was actually willing) you could give a F-gold providing spike, let them store some health, then spike them and get their ability to change shape. They then repair their Spiritweb after, leaving them okay.

Yes, that would be a better option. But you would need a lot of gold health to heal that ability back. If they can survive it in the first place of course.

11 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Also, I'm wondering if a Kandra donor would be better for the cognitive abilities that you're seeking, since they are already closer to what you want to become than a Mistwraith. I don't know if their spikes actually change them physiologically, if just a little, or if it's all just a magical piercing between the blockage effecting their mind, but if it is an actual change made by altering their Spiritweb, that should be able to be taken by Hemalurgy.

I think it doesn't change their physiology, but by altering their spirit, their mind gets changed and can naw overcome that mental blockage to be a full self. Without the Blessing they're back to being Mistwraith. Young Kandra are trained like Mistwraith to grow specific parts of the body by feeding them with it. 

Spoiler

Oudeis16

TenSoon comments that when the unbirthed are given Blessings, they lose the mimickry instinct that mistwraiths have and have to be taught anew. If their only native senses are touch and taste, how exactly do you teach a blob of muscles how to form things like eyes and ears?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, you feed it some partially digested eyes, then some more eyes, then eventually it starts making eyes on its own. It takes a while; Kandra 'children' grow more slowly than human ones.

Oudeis16

I don't know if you've considered how mistwraiths would be taxonomically classified; have you decided whether or not mistwraiths would be considered 'mammals'?

Brandon Sanderson

They are not mammals. Since they were deliberately created, I'd place them in their own branch.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 16, 2015)

By spiking Kandra you would likely still steal some of that mental blockade, because you're not stealing only the ability to shapeshift, you're stealing part of their spirit web, part of them, part of their identity.

 

But that got me thinking. Like TLM revealed, precise intent and command are crucial in Hemalurgy. What if, with a very specific intent, command and mental image, you can steal whatever you want, like Misting ability, but without stealing any identity at all, because you were excluding it in your intent, command and mental image? What you would get is just blanked, unkeyed power that you can now “mixed” with other unkeyed power within the same spike, fully going around the identity contamination problem. I doubt this is the case, this seems “easy” to do, and because Set already knew about the command and intent, and also struggled with  identity contamination problems, they would likely try this out. But maybe this requires a very high precision and a specific binding point and they just missed this possibility?

[therunner he/him]

26 minutes ago, alder24 said:

But that got me thinking. Like TLM revealed, precise intent and command are crucial in Hemalurgy. What if, with a very specific intent, command and mental image, you can steal whatever you want, like Misting ability, but without stealing any identity at all, because you were excluding it in your intent, command and mental image? What you would get is just blanked, unkeyed power that you can now “mixed” with other unkeyed power within the same spike, fully going around the identity contamination problem. I doubt this is the case, this seems “easy” to do, and because Set already knew about the command and intent, and also struggled with  identity contamination problems, they would likely try this out. But maybe this requires a very high precision and a specific binding point and they just missed this possibility?

I doubt this would work, since everything has Identity (and it seems to be innate property of Investiture), and blanking Identity seems to require either specific Invested art (like Feruchemy, and even that is not full blanking) or relatively special condition.

Intent only helps shape what exactly you will get, but won't allow you to do things out of nowhere. Hemalurgy only rips away pieces of spiritweb, it does not change those pieces in any way (as far as we know), so Intent would not let you do this blanking.

[Trusk'our he/him]

19 minutes ago, alder24 said:

But that got me thinking. Like TLM revealed, precise intent and command are crucial in Hemalurgy. What if, with a very specific intent, command and mental image, you can steal whatever you want, like Misting ability, but without stealing any identity at all, because you were excluding it in your intent, command and mental image? What you would get is just blanked, unkeyed power that you can now “mixed” with other unkeyed power within the same spike, fully going around the identity contamination problem. I doubt this is the case, this seems “easy” to do, and because Set already knew about the command and intent, and also struggled with  identity contamination problems, they would likely try this out. But maybe this requires a very high precision and a specific binding point and they just missed this possibility?

I was thinking the same thing ; basically, a really skilled Hemalurgist may be able to take Identity-Blanked powers from others, allowing them to stack with one another. This would be much more practical than trying out a bunch of Medallion or Trueself Hemalurgy tricks.

As for why it hasn't been done yet, science is always easier in retrospect (or if you can ask an all-knowing author ). It would be way harder in world to figure things out than it is for us, since we have a lot information, and that information isn't as fallible as the people in world have. 

Skill or an intuitive knowledge could also be a major factor. After all, the Inquisitors after TLR died had access to Compounding, but couldn't use it because they hadn't figured it out- they needed practice. And they had a Shard directing them most of the time.

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think when speaking Mistwraith you steal some of his cognitive blockage and give it to yourself. But I also think that you're not turning into Kandra, you are making a completely new hemalurgic construct, that just resembles kandra, but very likely has mental blockade that your unaided brain can't piece that well. And because you're a new construct, Kandra Blessings won't work on you like they're working on Kandra. You might need to blindly create a totally new type of spike that will work with this new construct and help them to overcome this new limitation. 

By spiking Kandra you would likely still steal some of that mental blockade, because you're not stealing only the ability to shapeshift, you're stealing part of their spirit web, part of them, part of their identity.

Yeah, I don't think that you'd turn into an actual Kandra using this idea, but something that may have similar abilities. And yes, you'd probably get the downsides too, though I think how much downside depends on how much like a Kandra the new creature becomes.

As for Kandra Blessings, I think they'd work for the new creature if made the way Kandra's are made, since the new creature has to deal with the same mechanism for physical/cognitive blockage as the Kandra. The real question in my opinion is if the new creature can use those Blessings without turning into something else entirely; would the new shape shifting be significant enough to prevent warping from other attribute spikes?

[Quantus he/him]

I think it could be possible, if weird, to steal (or perhaps just recreate) the Realmic Blockage using Hemalurgy, since that sort of Spritweb manipulation is right in it's wheelhouse.  One way would be to attempt to Steal the blockage, the "damaged Sector" from the Mistwraith or Kandra.  Since it's a breeding trait that should not be too hard, but waaay easier on a Kandra that can hold it's bind points still for you.  The other path might be to recreate the blockage damage with hemalurgy directly.  This would probably take some Spiritual Realm peak or a mountain of bodies to figure out, but if Hemalurgy can bridge the realms it can probably plug up that same bridge.  Maybe an aluminum spike with a VERY specific intent can interfere with just that aspect of the Spiritweb while implanted?  Or maybe you shove it in and remove it, leaving surgically precise but non-lethal Spiritual damage akin to a lobotomy. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

8 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I think it could be possible, if weird, to steal (or perhaps just recreate) the Realmic Blockage using Hemalurgy, since that sort of Spritweb manipulation is right in it's wheelhouse.  One way would be to attempt to Steal the blockage, the "damaged Sector" from the Mistwraith or Kandra.  Since it's a breeding trait that should not be too hard, but waaay easier on a Kandra that can hold it's bind points still for you.  The other path might be to recreate the blockage damage with hemalurgy directly.  This would probably take some Spiritual Realm peak or a mountain of bodies to figure out, but if Hemalurgy can bridge the realms it can probably plug up that same bridge.  Maybe an aluminum spike with a VERY specific intent can interfere with just that aspect of the Spiritweb while implanted?  Or maybe you shove it in and remove it, leaving surgically precise but non-lethal Spiritual damage akin to a lobotomy. 

So, you think that the blockage would be possible. What about the whole turn into a Kandra-kin part?

[Quantus he/him]

21 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

So, you think that the blockage would be possible. What about the whole turn into a Kandra-kin part?

If the goal is to spike the Blockage out of a Mistwraith to become one, I think it's technically possible.  A spike can theoretically rip off any subset of a Spirtweb up to and including the whole thing, and if you can steal Connection you should be able to steal a Blocked Connection. Worst case it would take H-Atium to transcend the individual metal limitations, and probably a bunch more Atium to be able to find the right Bind Point in an amorphous blob with no consistent anatomy meaning you cant experiment.  At which point I picture a weird three-spike Kandra (like a Kandra with a Lynchpin), or a really, REALLY special pair of Blessings that did both Blockage and Bridge (and I'd call shenanigans if anything less than a Sliver makes such a thing).  Mistwraiths are a breeding species with a lifespan of about 50 years, so I dont think you'd get the immortality or even an increased lifespan until you added Blessing functionality back in to hemalurgically bridge the blockage. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Quantus

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 minutes ago, Quantus said:

If the goal is to spike the Blockage out of a Mistwraith to become one, I think it's technically possible.  A spike can theoretically rip off any subset of a Spirtweb up to and including the whole thing, and if you can steal Connection you should be able to steal a Blocked Connection. Worst case it would take H-Atium to transcend the individual metal limitations, and probably a bunch more Atium to be able to find the right Bind Point in an amorphous blob with no consistent anatomy meaning you cant experiment.  At which point I picture a weird three-spike Kandra (like a Kandra with a Lynchpin), or a really, REALLY special pair of Blessings that did both Blockage and Bridge (and I'd call shenanigans if anything less than a Sliver makes such a thing).  Mistwraiths are a breeding species with a lifespan of about 50 years, so I dont think you'd get the immortality or even an increased lifespan until you added Blessing functionality back in to hemalurgically bridge the blockage. 

That deduction could make sense.

What if it wasn't a Sliver, but a Hemalurgist who found a way to Compound F-chromium, then Compounded a literal ton of it, then tapped it in the space of about ten seconds with the Intent of spiking out a Mistwraith's or Kandra's ability to alter form. Would that still count as shenanigans ?

[Quantus he/him]

3 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

That deduction could make sense.

What if it wasn't a Sliver, but a Hemalurgist who found a way to Compound F-chromium, then Compounded a literal ton of it, then tapped it in the space of about ten seconds with the Intent of spiking out a Mistwraith's or Kandra's ability to alter form. Would that still count as shenanigans ?

That should work, since "Anything that gets you a glimpse of the Spiritual Realm could help with placing spikes."

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/48/#e545

The Shenanigan's would be on making a pair of functional Blessing Spikes that both gave you the spiritual blockage of a Mistwraith and also bridged that same Blockage.  That feels like it should be two separate puzzles with distinct solutions that (arguably) exclusive to each other. But a god can probably make Atium spikes do anything Hemaulrgy is even slightly capable of, though at that point it's closer to a Honorblade-style Splinter object of pure Ruinous Investiture.