Brandon's total misstep with Vin

[KaladinWorldsinger]

I have always thought that Brandon made a huge mistake with Vin's death. Specifically this

Quote

You created the thing that can kill you, Ruin, Vin said. And you just made one huge final mistake. You shouldn't have killed Elend.

You see, he was the only reason I had left to live.

AAAGH!! I hate it. Really? The moment Elend dies, you are ok to die? Would Elend want her to treat her life so casually?? What about her friends who care about her? Wouldn't she hurt them? And also woman, Elend is the only reason you had to live?? Screw your friends I guess.

Now I know that Vin has to sacrifice herself to destroy ruin. I am completely fine with that. 

Vin dying needs to happen... But not by her throwing her life away! A sacrifice only means something if the sacrifice actually means something!

Her whole arc is about trusting people, letting people in, being a hero by caring about the wellbeing of people she doesn't know because of Elend's idealism (the well). And then she says this. Ugh

This is why I subconsciously never agreed that Vin was very written as a character. Because although she had great realistic character progression, her ending writes all over that, takes ten steps backwards for me.

The way I would have written it would be something like

Quote

As she attacked, she realised something. She wanted to live. Even after Elend's death, she still wanted to live. It surprised her.

But she drove onward, thinking of everyone left, those she cared about. 

This would be the perfect death for Vin. She sacrifices herself, while still wanting to live. She has changed. This would be a woman worthy of holding the shard of Preservation. Because I never thought that it made sense for her to be Leras' chosen one. It seemed like it only happened because she was the main character.

This ending, in my head, makes her revert back to the character development she had till the ending of TFE, where Reen,Kelsier and Elend were the only relationships she really had.

This ending is the reason why I have never liked Vin, even though I really really wanted to

 

[Frustration]

Hard disagree.

Vin's sacrifice did mean something, the world didn't end, Ruin didn't win, etc.

And while Vin might care about her friends, Elend is more important to her, that's why she went to the beyond after him rather than staying with Kelsier.

48 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

The way I would have written it would be something like

As she attacked, she realised something. She wanted to live. Even after Elend's death, she still wanted to live. It surprised her.

 

But she drove onward, thinking of everyone left, those she cared about. 

That feels like it only makes sense as a refutation of the original draft, Vin never once has a struggle about whether she would want to live if Elend died.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Frustration

[Treamayne]

34 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I have always thought that Brandon made a huge mistake with Vin's death. Specifically this

<snip>

This ending is the reason why I have never liked Vin, even though I really really wanted to

 

I understand and partially agree with your premise - but I don't think your "solution" would have actually worked. Personally I would have liked to see her remember the others she had lost (Clubs, Dox, etc); maybe consider how stopping Ruin is the only way to save the friends still alive (Spook, Breeze, Ham) - but even that doesn't really work because one component of the Climax was foreshadowed mid-way through HoA and is quite important (ch 27):

Spoiler

The man was humming to himself, as the instructions said that he might be doing.

Vin hesitated.

She couldn’t decide what it was, but something bothered her about the situation. It wasn’t right. She didn’t stop to think, she simply turned and jumped away. That was one of the big differences between her and Elend—she didn’t always need a reason. A feeling was enough. He always wanted to tease things out and find a why, and she loved him for his logic. However, he would have been very frustrated about her decision to turn away from the square as she had.

Perhaps nothing bad would have happened if she’d gone into the square. Perhaps something terrible would have occurred. She would never know, nor did she need to know. As she had countless other times in her life, Vin simply accepted her instincts and moved on.

The alacrity of action based on instinct is, IMO a large part of why her sacrifice works. She doesn't allow time for herself to second guess, for Preservation's Shard to exert influence against her decision or for Ruin to defend himself. And that Instinct driven reaction is, to me, a huge part of Vin (reclusive street-thief and crew member Mistborn).

35 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Spoiler

As she attacked, she realised something. She wanted to live. Even after Elend's death, she still wanted to live. It surprised her.

But she drove onward, thinking of everyone left, those she cared about.

 

The problem with your ending is that it doesn't work within the Cosmere. Intent is too important. If she did not intend to die she could never have overwhelmed the Intent of the Shard to force the conflict. Yes, she may have still "intended" to sacrifice herself - but *wanting* to live contradicts that. Now there are two separate and mutually exclusive Intents inside her. That would not likely have been enough to overwhelm the Power of both Preservation and Ruin.

[Tglassy]

The entire premise of Vin’s life before Kelsior was that personal survival trumped all. Everyone will betray you, so don’t trust anyone. Make yourself look like a boy so no one will notice you. Hoard food and money. Don’t open yourself up. Survive. Living another moment is more important than anything, or anyone. 
 

So in the end, the fact that she was willing to give it up, to die, means she had finally thrown off that old yoke. Elend was her anchor. He was the first person she ever learned to trust, even before she trusted Kelsior. He was the antithesis of her brother. The one who would be kind to her regardless, who encouraged her to be herself and to live. 
 

So he became her focus instead of herself. It was all for him.  That’s book 2. Until she learned to let him go at the end. A huge step for her. 
 

In book 3, She kept going because every minute she spent with him was a blessing.  She kept working because his dreams had become her dreams. She wanted to squeeze out every moment of life they could have because she’d already given it up, and been at peace about it, so every extra moment was that much sweeter. 
 

And so, when he died, it was ok. He was gone. It isn’t that she’s a love sick person crying “He was the only reason I had left to live”. Those are the words she used, but not the context. She was saying there’s nothing holding her back from doing what was necessary. As long as Elend was alive, she would want to squeeze out every moment she could get with him. She would never have been able to kill Ruin, because she wouldn’t want to miss a moment with Elend. But once he was gone…that didn’t matter anymore. She could go, and it would be ok. Like letting down a burden. She could take the gloves off, save the world, and that would be that.
 

She technically could have done that at any time before the end. As soon as she ascended, she could have killed Ruin and avoided all of that. Why didn’t she?  Because of Elend. Elend had to die to free Vin to do what she needed to. 
 

Leras was an a-hole. 

[cometaryorbit]

22 hours ago, Tglassy said:

And so, when he died, it was ok. He was gone. It isn’t that she’s a love sick person crying “He was the only reason I had left to live”. Those are the words she used, but not the context. She was saying there’s nothing holding her back from doing what was necessary.

Yeah. i think there's a key difference between "the only reason I had left to live" and "the only reason I had to live". She's not saying that being with Elend is her only purpose in life. It's more that through HOA, the world is ending, everything is falling apart and dying. Vin has already, at this point, essentially left her "earthly" life by Ascending (as Preservation, she's certainly not dead, but she's not really human anymore either). Elend is really her only link left to human life.

Her "meaning of love" line in SH does make it sound a bit more problematic, but I think it's still key that she's basically left (mortal/human) life behind already before she sacrificed herself. She could have become a Cognitive Shadow, sure, but...

Vin has really kind of been... weaponized by both Ruin and Preservation for her whole life. She never really had a chance at a normal life.

Edited March 2, 2023 by cometaryorbit