Gave Entrone's Strength

[Trusk'our he/him]

In TLM, Gave Entrone somehow uses an enormous amount of strength to smash through a wall and attack Marasi. Allomantic pewter doesn't increase you strength by that much, and there was no description of him swelling with Feruchemical muscle mass like we see the Cycle at the beginning of the book.

Did he perhaps have multiple spikes providing the ability to use Allomantic pewter, or is this our first example of a single Hemalurgic spike getting multiple doses of the same power imbued into it? It doesn't seem that unlikely to me. After all, the Set was experimenting with combining multiple non-Allomancers to create Hemalurgically granted powers, so deciding to use the same Hemalurgic spike to combine the power of two or more Pewterarms doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me.

[Frustration]

I think it's closer to the Cycle's healing, and that some ambient investiture from Autonomy gave him that power

[Trusk'our he/him]

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I think it's closer to the Cycle's healing, and that some ambient investiture from Autonomy gave him that power

Hmmm. That also might be pretty cool to learn more about (I totally forgot about that, actually).

[alder24]

What was the wall made of? Wood? Easy then. Some bricks/stone - could still be done. If reinforcement concrete then it's a problem.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 2/10/2023 at 9:53 AM, Trusk'our said:

In TLM, Gave Entrone somehow uses an enormous amount of strength to smash through a wall and attack Marasi. Allomantic pewter doesn't increase you strength by that much, and there was no description of him swelling with Feruchemical muscle mass like we see the Cycle at the beginning of the book.

Did he perhaps have multiple spikes providing the ability to use Allomantic pewter, or is this our first example of a single Hemalurgic spike getting multiple doses of the same power imbued into it? It doesn't seem that unlikely to me. After all, the Set was experimenting with combining multiple non-Allomancers to create Hemalurgically granted powers, so deciding to use the same Hemalurgic spike to combine the power of two or more Pewterarms doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me.

Could have been durilium or advanced pewter compounding (where you store a little mussle mass while burning pewter, then you move it from one metalmind to another while burning pewter, and so on, and so on. When you need to tap it, you also fill a little mussle mass, but none of the Allomantic effect.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

Could have been durilium or advanced pewter compounding (where you store a little mussle mass while burning pewter, then you move it from one metalmind to another while burning pewter, and so on, and so on. When you need to tap it, you also fill a little mussle mass, but none of the Allomantic effect.

I'm confused. Do you mean using Feruchemical pewter to give him strength? 

[IlstrawberrySeed]

42 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm confused. Do you mean using Feruchemical pewter to give him strength? 

The short & simple is storing A-pewter's strength in a pewtermind, but getting around the muscle mass growth that even TLR had (he became buff, not oversized).

[Trusk'our he/him]

53 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

The short & simple is storing A-pewter's strength in a pewtermind, but getting around the muscle mass growth that even TLR had (he became buff, not oversized).

I don't know if you can actually do that. Allomantic pewter enhances the performance of the body with Investiture and Feruchemy uses Investiture to actually increase the size of the muscles of the Feruchemist.

I actually thought along a similar line a while ago, where perhaps the Lord Ruler had stored Allomantic power inside his Metalminds, which would explain why he couldn't still use his Allomancy to go retrieve them before age finally caught up to him. But everybody who talked on the forum said such a thing wasn't possible, and after looking at it again, I don't know if it's possible either; the attributes that can be stored in Feruchemy are just too different from the Allomantic powers for them to be stored most likely.

[Frustration]

8 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I don't know if you can actually do that. Allomantic pewter enhances the performance of the body with Investiture and Feruchemy uses Investiture to actually increase the size of the muscles of the Feruchemist.

I actually thought along a similar line a while ago, where perhaps the Lord Ruler had stored Allomantic power inside his Metalminds, which would explain why he couldn't still use his Allomancy to go retrieve them before age finally caught up to him. But everybody who talked on the forum said such a thing wasn't possible, and after looking at it again, I don't know if it's possible either; the attributes that can be stored in Feruchemy are just too different from the Allomantic powers for them to be stored most likely.

You can

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

You can

  Hide contents

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

 

WHAT.

DUDE.

Hold on a sec, does he mean that you can store the actual affects of Allomantic pewter, or that you can just store more of a Feruchemical charge than you could before? Because the way he says it makes it sound like the end result would just be a weaker form of Compounding.

[Frustration]

Just now, Trusk'our said:

WHAT.

DUDE.

Hold on a sec, does he mean that you can store the actual affects of Allomantic pewter, or that you can just store more of a Feruchemical charge than you could before? Because the way he says it makes it sound like the end result would just be a weaker form of Compounding.

The way I understand it is you store the actual effects of Pewter.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

The way I understand it is you store the actual effects of Pewter.

My goodness.

Do you think that you could store the other Allomantic effects in their Feruchemical counterparts then? After all, the affects of Allomantic pewter aren't the same as Feruchemical pewter, but it might still work.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

My goodness.

Do you think that you could store the other Allomantic effects in their Feruchemical counterparts then? After all, the affects of Allomantic pewter aren't the same as Feruchemical pewter, but it might still work.

Both A-pewter and F-pewter are strength based, they might have slightly different functions, but they are the same.

You might be able to store Tin and Nicrosil as well, but other than that I don't think so.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Frustration

[IlstrawberrySeed]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

My goodness.

Do you think that you could store the other Allomantic effects in their Feruchemical counterparts then? After all, the affects of Allomantic pewter aren't the same as Feruchemical pewter, but it might still work.

58 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Both A-pewter and F-pewter are strength based, they might have slightly different functions, but they are the same.

You might be able to store Tin and Nicrosil as well, but other than that I don't think so.

Reverse-compoundability updated for TLM - The Lost Metal (Mistborn Spoilers Only, No Cosmere) - 17th Shard, the Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite
I don't agree with every statement in the post, but it covers partially allomancy one can store in a metalmind.

[cometaryorbit]

I think if you store A-pewter strength in a pewter metalmind, you only store the muscular strength (since that's what F-pewter does), not the increased balance/grace/dexterity, movement speed, tirelessness, or physical toughness/health that A-pewter also grants. 

But I think that an A-pewter / F-gold Twinborn could store more health per time unit while burning pewter (since their health is increased = they have more to store), and an A-pewter / F-steel Twinborn could store more physical speed.

I think this is why Sazed says to Vin that besides memory, Feruchemy mostly just does the same things as pewter and tin Allomancy: pewter's effects overlap with at least three and maybe five of the ten metals known then (pewter has some tirelessness effect, though it's dangerous, and also seems to improve your temperature tolerance; it's said in WoA that Ham wearing his usual vest in cold weather is a clear sign he's a Thug).

Not sure about "reverse compounding". I don't think storing A-pewter strength in F-pewter is quite the same thing, or at least I'd think an extra step is needed (IMO burning a pewtermind charged with A-pewter-derived strength would still only give muscular strength, not extra Allomantic strength/power in pewter Allomancy).

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 2/16/2023 at 1:50 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Not sure about "reverse compounding". I don't think storing A-pewter strength in F-pewter is quite the same thing, or at least I'd think an extra step is needed (IMO burning a pewtermind charged with A-pewter-derived strength would still only give muscular strength, not extra Allomantic strength/power in pewter Allomancy).

The term "reverse compounding" as used in the post is not what most people call "reverse compounding." In the post it is specifically powering fuerochemistry with an outside source that isn't traditional compounding, while most people see it as powering allomancy with fuerochemistry. Storing A-P in F-P only lets you tap physical strength, at least how I understand it, and I believe the poster understands it.