How does the Stormfather slow time?

[theSurgeOfPhysics]

I’ve been wondering about this one, partially because I feel like this will play a part in Book 5 (theory coming soon): 

How does the Stormfather slow time for someone in the highstorm? We saw this a little bit when Taravangian Ascended, that a high concentration of Investiture dilates time around those present.

Also, how long can this last? The Stormfather says not too long, so let’s say a few seconds. But how long does that feel to the individual? For Kaladin, it was just a few minutes, but could it be longer?  

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, theSurgeOfPhysics said:

I’ve been wondering about this one, partially because I feel like this will play a part in Book 5 (theory coming soon): 

How does the Stormfather slow time for someone in the highstorm? We saw this a little bit when Taravangian Ascended, that a high concentration of Investiture dilates time around those present.

Also, how long can this last? The Stormfather says not too long, so let’s say a few seconds. But how long does that feel to the individual? For Kaladin, it was just a few minutes, but could it be longer?  

Bodnsmiths can get time dialation of around 15:1

Spoiler

Questioner

At the end of Rhythm of War, we see Shard-induced time dilation; you bring a lot of Investiture into a place, and it slows down time.

Brandon Sanderson

It can also speed it up.

Questioner

How much Investiture would it take to dilate an area so that one area moves forward about fifteen years into the future while everything else remains? Like, they have ten minutes, everyone else goes fifteen years?

Brandon Sanderson

There’s a couple variables here. Number one is the length of the area, and how fast that fifteen years passes. If we want us to jump forward fifteen years, in how much time? Fifteen years compared to one year? Fifteen years compared to one minute? Fifteen years compared to one second? These are all different things. And, of course, the more you’re compressing and the larger the area, the more Investiture you’re requiring.

Questioner

Could two unchained Bondsmiths in the course of a duel do it?

Brandon Sanderson

Fifteen years? Fifteen years is gonna be a stretch for what they can get a hold of, but it depends. Unchained Bondsmith, unchained to (for instance) a deity that there is no longer a Vessel controlling that power in the way that it needs to have the limits on it is going to be able to access more than one where there was some Vessel there saying “no.” So there’s one factor in it. A Bondsmith can access a lot of power, as evidenced by the migration. The migration from Ashyn to Roshar happened with a Bondsmith powering some Elsecalling. And that allowed for some pretty crazy things. Getting an entire population moved through a portal across that much space is a lot of work and a lot of energy.

So what you’re asking, I think that’s stretching. Depends, again, on how long. Fifteen to one, not so hard. Fifteen years in a second is really hard and probably beyond what they have capacity to do.

I see what you’re doing there. You saw me talk around it.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

 

[Marabout]

I don’t think the Stormfather actually slows down time though.  I think he alters the person’s perception of time.  Since he can speak directly to people’s minds, communication can occur faster than real-time.  I imagine it like how you can have a dream that seems to last an hour over the course of one minute real-time.

[alder24]

11 minutes ago, Marabout said:

I don’t think the Stormfather actually slows down time though.  I think he alters the person’s perception of time.

That's what slowing down time is - it's time dilation. Investiture acts like a matter, and slows down time. Stormfather holds a lot of investiture and at that moment he was focusing his essence on Kaladin, pulling him into a vision and slowing down time for him/making him perceive time more slowly. Not like a dream, but like being close to a black hole.

Spoiler

Questioner

I was just curious about how time works for worldhoppers.

Brandon Sanderson

So worldhoppers' time is going to pass normally unless they can stay near to large collections of Investiture. They can warp time in the same way that gravity, large masses, can warp time.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Questioner

Does the dead body of a Shard pull at time and space, thus causing time to pass slower in that place of the cosmere, almost like a black hole?

Brandon Sanderson

It could go either way in the Cosmere, depending. But the answer is yes. A large amount, like a deific amount of Investiture will... any amount of Investiture will cause a bit of time dilation, but the amount you're getting from even a Shardpool is not enough to be noticeable. I mean, it is, you can notice it even on our planet if you take a jet that goes fast enough, so it is noticeable but not relevantly noticeable. We're talking about a slippage of a day or so in a year even off of a Shardpool (don't canonize me on that one, I don't have the actual numbers). But that's what we're talking about. There are are chunks of Investiture of deific nature that can cause amounts of time dilation that would be virtually impossible in our universe, without you becoming one with a black hole. There's a story I want to tell, and I don't know if I'll ever get around to telling it, about an entire society that rises and falls in several seconds of time dilation to everyone else. I want to be able to tell stories like that, and you couldn't do that in our universe, but that's part of the reason we have the Cosmere!

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

Jeremy

If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis?

Brandon Sanderson

No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that.

That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people.

The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021)

 

[theSurgeOfPhysics]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Bodnsmiths can get time dialation of around 15:1 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Stormfather holds a lot of investiture and at that moment he was focusing his essence on Kaladin, pulling him into a vision and slowing down time for him/making him perceive time more slowly. Not like a dream, but like being close to a black hole.

Woah. This changes a lot here. Thanks!

[jockmcplop]

12 hours ago, alder24 said:

That's what slowing down time is - it's time dilation. Investiture acts like a matter, and slows down time. Stormfather holds a lot of investiture and at that moment he was focusing his essence on Kaladin, pulling him into a vision and slowing down time for him/making him perceive time more slowly. Not like a dream, but like being close to a black hole.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

I was just curious about how time works for worldhoppers.

Brandon Sanderson

So worldhoppers' time is going to pass normally unless they can stay near to large collections of Investiture. They can warp time in the same way that gravity, large masses, can warp time.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Questioner

Does the dead body of a Shard pull at time and space, thus causing time to pass slower in that place of the cosmere, almost like a black hole?

Brandon Sanderson

It could go either way in the Cosmere, depending. But the answer is yes. A large amount, like a deific amount of Investiture will... any amount of Investiture will cause a bit of time dilation, but the amount you're getting from even a Shardpool is not enough to be noticeable. I mean, it is, you can notice it even on our planet if you take a jet that goes fast enough, so it is noticeable but not relevantly noticeable. We're talking about a slippage of a day or so in a year even off of a Shardpool (don't canonize me on that one, I don't have the actual numbers). But that's what we're talking about. There are are chunks of Investiture of deific nature that can cause amounts of time dilation that would be virtually impossible in our universe, without you becoming one with a black hole. There's a story I want to tell, and I don't know if I'll ever get around to telling it, about an entire society that rises and falls in several seconds of time dilation to everyone else. I want to be able to tell stories like that, and you couldn't do that in our universe, but that's part of the reason we have the Cosmere!

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

Jeremy

If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis?

Brandon Sanderson

No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that.

That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people.

The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021)

 

Its going to need explaining why this doesn't have a gravitational effect, surely

[alder24]

3 hours ago, jockmcplop said:

Its going to need explaining why this doesn't have a gravitational effect, surely

It does something similar, but instead of curving the spacetime, Investiture curves all three Realms closer together, like what perpendicularity is doing.

Spoiler

Questioner

In our universe, mass and energy curve space. I was wondering if Investiture does the same or something similar

Brandon Sanderson

It does something similar. It draws the three Realms together. So it's got like-- Imagine a gravitational pull piercing Realms. Right? Of kind of--

Questioner

And that's how a perpendicularity works?

Brandon Sanderson

That's not the only way a perpendicularity works, but one surefire way to create a perpendicularity is a massive collection of Investiture in the Cognitive or mostly Physical realm. But Cognitive's weird, doesn't always work the right way. But there are ways to do it that way too.

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

Also not every time dilation effect is caused by gravity. Speed is the other reason for it, the faster you are moving the slower the time is passing for you. But in Cosmere you can achieve it also with Investiture.

[jockmcplop]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

It does something similar, but instead of curving the spacetime, Investiture curves all three Realms closer together, like what perpendicularity is doing.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

In our universe, mass and energy curve space. I was wondering if Investiture does the same or something similar

Brandon Sanderson

It does something similar. It draws the three Realms together. So it's got like-- Imagine a gravitational pull piercing Realms. Right? Of kind of--

Questioner

And that's how a perpendicularity works?

Brandon Sanderson

That's not the only way a perpendicularity works, but one surefire way to create a perpendicularity is a massive collection of Investiture in the Cognitive or mostly Physical realm. But Cognitive's weird, doesn't always work the right way. But there are ways to do it that way too.

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

Also not every time dilation effect is caused by gravity. Speed is the other reason for it, the faster you are moving the slower the time is passing for you. But in Cosmere you can achieve it also with Investiture.

I like it!

So is there anything else we can deduce from that?

For example, it must take an absolutely massive concentration of investiture to create a perpendicularity.

Also I'm wondering if the warping of air around anti-voidlight has anything to do with this idea.