Most Influential Worldhopper Organization

[StanLemon]

Which organization of world hoppers do you think has the most influence in the Cosmere as a whole?

Edited December 10, 2022 by StanLemon

[Frustration]

Either Silver light, the IRE, or the Seventeenth Shard.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Ookla the Frustrated.

[lacrossedeamon]

Isn't the whole deal of the 17th Shard to not have influence?

Anyways I don't think we have enough information to even begin speculating on this. We've really only seen the Ghostbloods in action. Silverlight is a good guess but depending on how much they focus on pure scholarship they might also eschew dabbling in politics or other forms of influence. The Ire we haven't seen enough; the Nightbrigade we haven't seen at all; Sleepless don't really count; Sons of Honor are basically defunct and not really worldhopper as a whole; Worldbringer/Worldsingers/Envisagers we haven't seen enough.

[StanLemon]

Silverlight being a whole city I could see them having a lot of influence or very little depending on if they are just focusing on being a gathering of world hoppers or if the leadership has an actual agenda. 

44 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Isn't the whole deal of the 17th Shard to not have influence?

I guess that depends on how active they might be at stopping other organizations. Their influence would be stopping the meddling of other organizations

[Frustration]

50 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Isn't the whole deal of the 17th Shard to not have influence?

To not interfere. They are also the oldest worldhopper organization, and most of the ghostbloods operatives are former 17th sharders.

 

53 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Worldbringer/Worldsingers/Envisagers we haven't seen enough.

The worldbringers are dead, and were only vaguely cosmere aware

Thw worldsingers provably aren't cosmere aware.

And the envisagers were a splinter of the sons of Honor. 

[lacrossedeamon]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

To not interfere. They are also the oldest worldhopper organization, and most of the ghostbloods operatives are former 17th sharders.

 

The worldbringers are dead, and were only vaguely cosmere aware

Thw worldsingers provably aren't cosmere aware.

And the envisagers were a splinter of the sons of Honor. 

!7th Shard is seemingly bleeding members then and have yet to be shown doing anything competent.

Coppermind says "very Realmatically aware" in regards to the Worldbringers and while they were wiped out by the Lord Ruler the Keepers were basically a spiritual successor and it isn't too much to believe that the Keepers themselves have a spiritual successor of their own post-catacendre.

I find it hard to say Worldsingers provably aren't cosmere aware when Hoid is their founder.

Still haven't seen enough to say much about the Envisagers and the fact Brandon RAFOed questions about them implies there's still more to learn about them. Being a splinter sect of another doesn't preclude becoming more or less influential than the original.

But mainly I'm just saying we don't have enough information for any guess to be anything more than a shot in the dark.

[Frustration]

13 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

!7th Shard is seemingly bleeding members then and have yet to be shown doing anything competent.

They are the first worldhopper organization, in fact I'd bet that most worldhoppers survive because of information that the 17th shard collected. And they are so competent that Kelsier thinks it's worth his time to try recruiting from them.

13 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Coppermind says "very Realmatically aware" in regards to the Worldbringers and while they were wiped out by the Lord Ruler the Keepers were basically a spiritual successor and it isn't too much to believe that the Keepers themselves have a spiritual successor of their own post-catacendre.

Realmatically as in, "hey these things exist in three ways", not as in "hey there are other worlds we can go to".

13 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I find it hard to say Worldsingers provably aren't cosmere aware when Hoid is their founder.

Hoid might be their founder, but he doesn't lead them.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Ookla the Frustrated.

[lacrossedeamon]

7 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They are the first worldhopper organization, in fact I'd bet that most worldhoppers survive because of information that the 17th shard collected. And they are so competent that Kelsier thinks it's worth his time to try recruiting from them.

Realmatically as in, "hey these things exist in three ways", not as in "hey there are other worlds we can go to".

Hoid might be their founder, but he doesn't lead them.

Sounds just as speculative as anything else being said

[offer]

On 11.12.2022 at 6:22 AM, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

and most of the ghostbloods operatives are former 17th sharders.

Do we know that?

I knew that Iyatil was from the 17th shard and that the ghostbloods try to recruite their members but I always thought that the probably succeeded only in a small number of times.

[Elegy he/him]

Silverlight is not an organization. It's a city and the home of several organizations, among them the 17th Shard and the Ire.

We haven't seen enough of most of them to really say. The 17th Shard is probably very powerful, but definitely not influential at all, they specifically don't want to be. I don't think we're at a point in the Cosmere where any galaxy-wide organization is actually influential. That's something that will come with time, as more and more people become cosmere-aware. And until then, I'd guess the Ghostbloods will be on the forefront, solely based on their importance for the main plot of both Cosmere core series.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, offer said:

Do we know that?

I knew that Iyatil was from the 17th shard and that the ghostbloods try to recruite their members but I always thought that the probably succeeded only in a small number of times.

It's not just trying to recruit, but actively recruiting, meaning they are having success.

Spoiler

KING

What would it take for a member of the Seventeenth Shard Shard to convert over to a member of the Ghostbloods? 

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, the Ghostbloods would actively recruit from them. So, I think it would not be terribly difficult. It 's gonna depend on which kind of Seventeenth Sharder. Because there are a lot of non-field-agent Seventeenth Sharders, which would be less interesting. Field agents, they would actively recruit. 

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

[offer]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

It's not just trying to recruit, but actively recruiting, meaning they are having success.

  Hide contents

KING

What would it take for a member of the Seventeenth Shard Shard to convert over to a member of the Ghostbloods? 

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, the Ghostbloods would actively recruit from them. So, I think it would not be terribly difficult. It 's gonna depend on which kind of Seventeenth Sharder. Because there are a lot of non-field-agent Seventeenth Sharders, which would be less interesting. Field agents, they would actively recruit. 

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

It does not mean most ghostbloods are former-17th-shards.

We know they had success with Iyatil. This WoB just says they approach 17th-shards to recruite them, it does not mean they succeeded in big numbers.

[Frustration]

Just now, offer said:

It does not mean most ghostbloods are former-17th-shards.

We know they had success with Iyatil. This WoB just says they approach 17th-shards to recruite them, it does not mean they succeeded in big numbers.

You don't put resources towards something that doesn't give returns.

If they are actively recruiting 17th sharders, that means that they are succeeding

[offer]

Just now, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

You don't put resources towards something that doesn't give returns.

If they are actively recruiting 17th sharders, that means that they are succeeding

This is not confirmed. 

It can also mean that they believe each recruit from the 17-shard is very valuable, or that it is does not take a lot to approach a 17-shard member.

[kenod]

9 hours ago, Elegy said:

I don't think we're at a point in the Cosmere where any galaxy-wide organization is actually influential.

Honestly, this is a pretty important thing. Most of what we've seen of Worldhopper organizations doesn't really have them interfere much in things, or only in things tangential with the main events on the planet. Even on Roshar, where they're the most active, they seem more interested in using the situation to accomplish their personal goals. We haven't really seen them influence events on a big scale, instead mostly just existing around the edges and doing their own stuff.

The two biggest direct influence we've seen from a secret organization were the Sons of Honor (which wasn't really a worldhopper organization, it was more of a local conspiracy which got hijacked by the other, older powers on the planet, and didn't really know what it was involved in), and the Set, which was more of a local conspiracy working to aid a foreign Shard.

Of course, if you count shard-led organizations as worldhopper organizations, Autonomy probably qualifies.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 11.12.2022 at 4:26 AM, lacrossedeamon said:

Isn't the whole deal of the 17th Shard to not have influence?

Not to use it.

On 11.12.2022 at 4:26 AM, lacrossedeamon said:

Anyways I don't think we have enough information to even begin speculating on this. We've really only seen the Ghostbloods in action.

I am afraid this is incorrect. We also saw the Ire. They built fortresses, had their own military force, sell technology nobody else has and made a device that allows stealing a Shard and it worked.

On 16.12.2022 at 6:42 PM, Frustration said:

You don't put resources towards something that doesn't give returns.

Debatable. The mere knowledge about the offer weakens the 17th Shard. Its members know that they have an alternative they can go to. You cannot give the lukewarm members dangerous missions, to state the most obvious effect.