WoB on Sixteen[Discuss]

[+Oltux72]

Brandon confirmed that Sixteen is from Scadrial. And he is human according to the Honorspren. So what is he?

• One of Rashek's predecessors
• a Kandra
• Spook
• a random worldhopping Mistborn from The Final Empire
• one of Rashek's descendants

Him not consuming food or producing wastes pretty much precludes somebody without arcane powers. Yet I do not see anybody on that list let Shallan surprise him. Or in case of a Kandra, draw so much attention.

[teknopathetic]

Coppermind Description of Sixteen:

Quote

He is short, bald man with pale skin and eyes that make him appear Shin, likely because of a lack of epicanthic folds. He walks with hunched back and wears a hooded robe to hide his appearance.^[2]

Sixteen lives in a small box near the statue garden in Lasting Integrity. He leaves his home every sixteen days, a practice that amuses the honorspren due to his consistency. He brings no food, water, or waste out of or into it, and likely subsists by some means of Investiture.^[2]

When Shallan Davar came to Lasting Integrity hunting Restares, she suspected that Sixteen was the man she was looking for. When the day came for Sixteen to leave his house, Shallan sat outside waiting for him to emerge. However, when she confronted him and pulled back his hood, she realized from his apparently Shin appearance that he was not Restares. Sixteen then shouted at her in a language she did not recognize, and fled back into his house.^[2

I have 4 very bad and very unlikely ideas for who 16 is. Spook is WAY more likely than any of these, but I would be happy if we got any of these as an answer. 

1. Aradan Yomen was an obligator who could burn Atium. We never see this person die, and maybe an Atium misting could do some weird things out there. Also, Aradan is one of the few bald male and pale characters I can think of from Scadrial. 

2. Laras jumps to mind to me for some reason. It would be interesting if his cognitive aspect survived in some way. Unlikely, but neat. !6 doesnt eat and has to go out every 16 days, so maybe a cognitive shadow makes sense. Less sense is how aCognitive  Shadow would get off world, but still. 

3. It might be interesting to see Lutha of "Luthadel" pop up. Lutha sounds like a female name to me but maybe not. Brandon keeops RAFOing who Lutha is, so maybe there is a reason? 

4. We haven't learned who Senna was from when Leras says "Oh, Senna . . . I'm losing this place. Losing them all . . .".. However, Senna sounds like a female name to me. 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by teknopathetic

[NameIess]

My guess is that 16's a pulser going to the future:

Quote

Alterodent

If a hermit were to take a whole lot of cadmium and go off and live by himself, how far within a lifetime, reasonably, could he get into the future by essentially time-capsuling himself? Assuming they live to be 70 or 75.

Brandon Sanderson

They could get pretty far.

Alterodent

What would the savantism do to them?

Brandon Sanderson

The savantism would probably allow them to get further… It’s completely reasonable… you can treat this like relativistic travel.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

I'm guessing he realized Lasting Integrity would be a safe place to go to the future in, and he burns sixteen days of Cadmium in between walks to make sure nothing's changed, and maybe to get exercise too. Might be a bendalloy ferring too, considering the not needing food part, and with hemalurgy he could even have duraluminum too.

I don't think he's anyone we've seen before, and would guess that he won't turn out to be all that important, just an easter egg to people like us. (If this backfires when KoW comes out, feel free to mercilessly mock me).

Edited December 6, 2022 by Ookla the Untitled

[Treamayne]

12 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Brandon confirmed that Sixteen is from Scadrial. And he is human according to the Honorspren. So what is he?

• One of Rashek's predecessors
• a Kandra
• Spook
• a random worldhopping Mistborn from The Final Empire
• one of Rashek's descendants

Him not consuming food or producing wastes pretty much precludes somebody without arcane powers. Yet I do not see anybody on that list let Shallan surprise him. Or in case of a Kandra, draw so much attention.

• Unlikely to be a Kandra, as they still need sustenance and would probably only draw this much attention if under-orders
• Would probably have to, at least, be a Subsumer compounder (or found a way to do so with Medallions or other fabrials - I imagine a "no-need-to-eat-or-drink" unsealed medallion would be quite popular with worldhoppers - and quite expensive)
• Spook is possible, as we can only confirm that he "stepped down from Ruling" and was over a century old when he did so - no confirmed death (yet) and he would only need a spike for F-Bendalloy to become a subsumer compounder
  • Additionally, if he was already working with Kell at the end of MSH, could he have gone off-world to help solve Kell's little problem?

So, most likely somebody unknown (and unlikely to be Terris - due to description) - but possibly Spook.

 

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

So, most likely somebody unknown (and unlikely to be Terris - due to description) - but possibly Spook.

The problem I have with that is that I do not understand how one the greatest Tineyes would let an amateur teenage assassin surprise him.

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The problem I have with that is that I do not understand how one the greatest Tineyes would let an amateur teenage assassin surprise him.

Concur - which is why I said possible rather than probable. The description itself also doesn't match (but descriptions can change) since we know by the time Spook was in Urteau he was over 6 ft tall (by Scadrian feet) and Sixteen's description (Ch 75) doesn't match:

Spoiler

 

His hood fell, revealing his face.

He was Shin; there was no mistaking that pale, almost sickly skin and those childlike eyes. Restares was a short Alethi man with wispy hair. This man was short, yes, but completely bald, and was not Alethi.

 

That said, since we know that Shallan usually uses new aspects of her abilities unconciously (see the whole deserter fiasco), and we know that Lightweavers can also manipulate sound (not just light) - it is possible that unconcious lightweaving was used to direct any noise she was making away from Sixteen. 

While Spook is unlikely to be Sixteen, I would not rule out the possibility. I would also doubt it to be anybody older than Catacendre - just because of the breadth of powers (and metals) that would need to be known/understood and the amount of Atium aging that would have been needed for it to be a descendent of Rashek or similar. 

[AquaRegia]

Not arguing for or against any particular candidate, just want to point out that to a human native of Roshar, ANYONE from Scadrial would look "short".

[+Oltux72]

On 6.12.2022 at 9:20 PM, Treamayne said:

That said, since we know that Shallan usually uses new aspects of her abilities unconciously (see the whole deserter fiasco), and we know that Lightweavers can also manipulate sound (not just light) - it is possible that unconcious lightweaving was used to direct any noise she was making away from Sixteen.

Spook was a Mistborn, hence also a Seeker and she was full of Stormlight. And carrying at least some metal on her body, lest she intended to kill him with her bare hands.

[Treamayne]

33 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Spook was a Mistborn, hence also a Seeker and she was full of Stormlight. And carrying at least some metal on her body, lest she intended to kill him with her bare hands.

Right, another reason why it is only "possible" not "probable" that Sixteen was Spook. TO be clear, Iwas never saying that Sixteen was Spook - just that with known information we cannot definitively say it is not Spook. Though your premise also surmises that if Sixteen is a Seeker of some kind, they have learned how to use that ability to detect Stormlight being used actively. 

I'll be weird and quote myself:

On 12/6/2022 at 3:20 PM, Treamayne said:

While Spook is unlikely to be Sixteen, I would not rule out the possibility. I would also doubt it to be anybody older than Catacendre

So, we agree?

[+Oltux72]

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Right, another reason why it is only "possible" not "probable" that Sixteen was Spook. TO be clear, Iwas never saying that Sixteen was Spook - just that with known information we cannot definitively say it is not Spook.

Ruling out stuff definitively is obviously impossible. The problem is that we are taking Spook only into consideration because

1. We want him to be alive
2. We know him
3. He is a Mistborm

But there were thousands of Mistborn on Scadrial during the history of the world. And being a Mistborn does still not explain why he does not eat and <best not mentioned>.

Though your premise also surmises that if Sixteen is a Seeker of some kind, they have learned how to use that ability to detect Stormlight being used actively.

Hoid could detect Surgebinding.

[Treamayne]

On 6/20/2023 at 3:51 AM, Oltux72 said:

Hoid could detect Surgebinding.

Yes. He's also an ancient being who has been studying the different forms of investiture and how they interact for only-Sanderson-knows-how-long.

And we know it's possible (by WoB) - but a random misting/ferring discovering that a power he "knows" actually has wider applications? Not impossible at all, but also not something to just assume as true without evidence.

Edit: Example - Vasher/Zahel being able to sense Syl with his Lifesense.

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Treamayne
Example

[Isilel]

On 20.6.2023 at 9:51 AM, Oltux72 said:

Ruling out stuff definitively is obviously impossible. The problem is that we are taking Spook only into consideration because

1. We want him to be alive
2. We know him
3. He is a Mistborm

Honestly, I think it is just 1.

Because 2 and 3 actually argue against him being Spook. I mean, yea we know him and know him to be a veteran undercover operator and fighter. Which is the opposite of Sixteen. Also, we know that the worldhoppers coming to Roshar, including Ghostbloods, have a means to communicate in local languages, so how comes Sixteen, if he is Spook,  doesn't?

And 16's behaviour strongly suggests that he is neither a Mistborn nor even a Pulser, but relies on an automated mechanism for his cadmium allomancy, because why would someone who can burn at any time become panicked when he can't return to his hut within a few minutes? He may also use F-bendalloy to avoid producing waste, but that wouldn't have solved the problem with the lack of bathing, would it?

[Duxredux]

Here's a few considerations:

First, it's unlikely that Sixteen is Yomen or any Obligator from TFE, since Shallan would certainly have noticed ministry eye tattoos. As close as she was and with Shallan's attention to detail, I wouldn't be surprised if she could spot makeup and may have even be looking for makeup. Unless we also assume that they've learned how to remove tattoos, but that seems like too many layers of obfuscation.

We know that a Hemalurgic spike would drive most Radiant spren away, at least most would balk at the idea of bonding a Hemalurgist. Do we know if this is the case when the Hemalurgist and spren are both in Shadesmar? The Honorspren sensing something off about a Hemalurgist and barring them from their city, seems similarly plausible to the spren needing to be in a state where they could form the Nahel bond with a person before they could sense the Hemalurgic spike. I'm assuming if the Ghostbloods hadn't been able to sneak anybody in to Lasting Integrity (assuming Mraise wasn't lying) then a known Hemalurgist would need a very good letter of recommendation to get in.

As for a Seeker detecting Shallan, that could be complicated. Shallan has learned to suppress her Stormlight's glow, and I assume that would reduce its detectability in other ways as well. Even Vasher with his Divine Breath can suppress it to the point that he appears as a drab to someone of the Third Heightening, which is one down from Perfect Lifesense. If the Honorspren have any Invested defenses or emit a detectable pulse (as Treamayne pointed out, Vasher could sense Syl via Lifesense), then that could drown out quieter Investiture, or be loud enough that most Allomancers wouldn't leave their Bronze running. Basically I don't think Shallan getting the jump on Sixteen means they definitively aren't a Bronze burner.

I don't know. With Felt around on Roshar it doesn't feel like we can narrow too much down. Scadrian doesn't mean not Seventeenth Shard, Silverlight, or an agent of some other organization with relatively unknown tech, though they weren't using Connection to translate whatever they shouted at Shallan. Could be Walin, the survivor of Hathsin that gets a single viewpoint chapter when Kelsier breaks a Perpendicularity. Could be a random associate of Felt. Who knows. I think a Hemalurgist is slightly less likely but still explainable.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Duxredux
clarity